PIP, I've been summoned to see the beak lol . — Scope | Disability forum
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PIP, I've been summoned to see the beak lol .

Threesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
Firstly Hi, first time posting.
I never, in my wildest dreams, thought I'd be posting on a website for Benefits. I've worked all my life until I had an accident at work last year. The accident was caused by an old injury. I wasn't aware of PIP, I had no one to confide in  and sorted it myself. I received the huge form to fill in and sent it back. I had my assessment, which I thought went well. I received the lower rate of PIP.

But, here's the problem. My injury is both my knees, asthma and acute sinusitis. I take meds for all three conditions. Because, of my osteoarthritis in both knees I thought I would have received the upper rate. This wasn't the case. Some days I can't walk to the bottom of my garden, let alone the 50M they say I can walk.

Sorry I'm babbling, I followed DWP procedure and now have to go to court. I've never been to court before and I'm terrified. Any help would be a bonus and much appreciated.
If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.


  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,212 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Threesticks and welcome

    Please try and keep all your posts on one thread, it makes it so much easier to answer your questions

    I hope the following is some help, but please do come back and ask anything


    You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.

    - they’re nervous.

    and many other arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnable cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 


    1 - Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2 - There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 to 40 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3 - There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4 - Watch the judge’s pen. All 3 members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5 - Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6 - Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7 - Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit and tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8 - Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9 - Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10 - Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Apologies for the repeat posts. The system informed me, several times, I'd timed out, but the post were being uploaded.

    Thank you very much for the information, this does help. I feel I've done something wrong and have to beg for something that is an entitlement and I've lied about something. You only get four weeks to put a good case together. Only two left. Even with this knowledge and excellent information you have given, still doesn't stop the lost nights sleep worrying about it.
    Thanks again.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,239 Disability Gamechanger
    If you're requesting the Tribunal then the most important thing is to get the SSCS1 form sent off. You can concentrate on any extra evidence later. Waiting times for Tribunal are huge across the whole country with a lot of people waiting in excess of 1 year for a hearing date. Evidence must be sent no later than 10 days of your hearing date so lots of time.
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,212 Disability Gamechanger
    You only need to put basic reasons for your appeal on the SSCS1. You should wait until you receive the bundle of evidence from the DWP before making your case and completeing your submission. As poppy says there are considerable delays so no need to rush other than getting SSCS1 sent
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Threesticks
    Threesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Thank you Poppy and CockneyRebel. This is great News to me. I wasn't aware of any of this. Obviously, not knowing anything and being dropped in a the deep end.

    Thank you both again.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.


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