PIP, DLA and AA
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HELP !!!! P.I.P refused

Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
edited April 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi all im new here ....

My name is Joanne i am 30 years old with 3 boys and i suffer from a range of health problems ...


  • Neurocardiogenic syncope - which causes me to pass out with out warning could lead to heart attacks as i take beta blockers so my heart beats in bradycardia sinus rhythm. 
  • Chronic Kidney Disease stage 3 
  • Osteoarthritis 
  • Depression / Anxiety 
  • Gallstones - waiting for an operation
  • Poly cystic ovaries 
I have claimed Personal Independence Payment since the year 2013 when my heart condition was diagnosed as i cant be left alone i got the daily care and low mobility . In October of this year the P.I.P renewal forms came and i filled them out and sent them back , then i was diagnosed with Chronic Kidney disease stage 3 which then my partner phoned p.i.p and reported the change. The assessor came to do my home assessment in February of this year she didn't know anything about my chronic kidney disease i had to tell her about it for her to add it to my file. In march i received a letter from p.i.p to say they had refused it as i had scored 0 points !!!! . I then got in touch with my local welfare rights who helped us through the mandatory reconsideration process while discussing things with her she went through the P.I.P descriptors with me which scored me a total of 18 points !!! on the care and a total of 20 points !! on the mobility. My partner rang them on 18th April to ask if a decision had been made on the mandatory reconsideration which they had done and they have refused it again. So i have now got to get ready for tribunal but i still don`t see how they can award it to me since 2013 then in 2019 refuse it when my heart condition is still the same my care needs are now worse than they were before but somehow in their logic i now longer qualify for it where is the common sense in that ? I have fought it this far but the amount of stress and worry this has caused me i don`t know if i am going to be able to fight it any further its no good to my heart some advice please would be appreciated. 

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Joanne21 and welcome

    I am sorry that you are going through this, there is no magic formula and no logic that I can see. Welfare rights are better able to advise you and help you prepare for a tribunal.
    Have you asked for ? got a copy of the assessment report ?
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    hi 

    yes my partner phoned them back up after and asked them for a copy of my assessment report so i am waiting for that to arrive in the post. 
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,472 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Joanne21 welcome to the community! So sorry to hear what has happened. You're not alone as many members of our community have been and currently are in the process of appealing a benefits decision. 

    We will do our best to help you as much as we can :)
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    hi

    Thank you for replying its just sooo hard trying to fight this they have all the medical evidence they asked for to back up what i am telling them is the truth and still NO its not fair and we shouldn't be made to feel like this. 
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,472 Disability Gamechanger
    It's completely understandable to be feeling this way :(
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Agreed @Joanne21 . They do it anyway. It is stressful going to Tribunal, but over 70% of claimants who appear at the tribunal win. Do you have any family or friends who can help?

  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    Hi yes I’ve got my partner who is my carer and I’ve got my parents who live 4 doors away from me my partner is in the process of decorating our front reception room to turn it into a downstairs bedroom as that’s where my bathroom aids  are and then they refuse my p.i.p so I’m stuck now I just feel like screaming 
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    I totally hear you. Talk to them about this and see what they think? Can they support you through this? Can they help you write up responses? Can they attend tribunal with you, if necessary? Please check out pipinfo.net for a good explanation of the questions, the descriptors, what the terms mean, and some examples of how to answer them. You need to explain how your conditions affect your ability to perform the actions in the questions. Figure out which descriptor applies to you and tell them why. If you have evidence (from docs, etc.) point out which parts of it support what you're saying. Your parents and partner, as well as any other carers, friends, CPN, etc. can also write letters of support, stating what you have trouble doing, how often, what they help you with, etc. We're here to help, too!
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    Who do I need to discuss this with ?? Ive got medical appointments coming left right and centre and now all this my head is just scrambled 
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Sorry, talk to your partner and parents about it?
  • justg72justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Joanne21 said:
    Hi yes I’ve got my partner who is my carer and I’ve got my parents who live 4 doors away from me my partner is in the process of decorating our front reception room to turn it into a downstairs bedroom as that’s where my bathroom aids  are and then they refuse my p.i.p so I’m stuck now I just feel like screaming 
    Hi Joanne21
    I would get your local MP involved its unbelievable what they are doing to so many vulnerable and genuine disabled!
    Have you got a specialist professional involved e.g. a nurse?
    Who supplied the aids? as you could do with a brief letter to back this up, my benefit advisor told me to do this.

    I would also mention and supply photo's of your front reception room been converted to address your needs.
    Please don't take it personal about scoring 0 points! they are doing this to many, they have done this to me and I am waiting for a tribunal!

    I came across a former tribunal judge called Sir Henry Brooke just google his name and read some of his blogs about the injustice he has seen in regards to PIP, he says its not fit for purpose.
     If you go on this website called:www.pipinfo.net
    It comes up with all different categories and health conditions. It also has peoples tribunals you can read and it covers all the case laws it has really good information its well worth a read.

    The only thing about going to a tribunal is the waiting time as there's big backlogs some areas more than a year.
    I can relate to the stress this causes you as I am now getting evicted from my home because of losing mine.
    I go to my tribunal in May I will let you know how I get on.
    I am glad you are taking it to a tribunal and are fighting against this unfair system which clearly isn't working!
    Good luck Joanne, I hope you win.x 

  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    Thank you I will have a look at that website yes please let me know how you get on 
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @justg72 Sir Henry Brooke. Wonderful writer and judge. RIP.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    justg72 said:


    I am glad you are taking it to a tribunal and are fighting against this unfair system which clearly isn't working!
    Good luck Joanne, I hope you win.x 

    Isn't working? Why are you saying that? Figures show that there are more claimants receiving the highest rates of PIP than there were with DLA.
    What part of it isn't working?
    The issues of assessment reports and their poor quality have been with us since 1995 when I first started making claims.
  • justg72justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Hi Twonker
    The reason I am saying it is not working because if it was why are so many taking it to a tribunal and over 70% are winning. If it was working surely so many wouldn't win.
    I have come across a previous tribunal judge called Sir Henry Brooke and he even says the PIP isn't working. Google his name and read some of his blogs in regards to the PIP and tribunals, he says there is injustice.
    I am quite new in claiming benefits so I can't comment about claiming DLA as I have only claimed PIP.
    All I can say is I attended my F2F with a friend and when we read the report we thought we had been sat in a totally different assessment. Questions were answered I wasn't even asked and things were said that wasn't.
    I also went from enhanced for both to 0 even though there is no change to my health and condition.
    My Specialist Nurse even put down in a letter that I had nearly drowned in the bath because of my epilepsy and I still got 0.
    There are so many errors in mine.
    I have also read too many stories where claimants receive 0 points then go to tribunal and then be awarded PIP.
    Maybe I feel this way is because I have been treat unfairly.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @justg72 - I had a bad experience with my F2F but I wouldn't say that "the system isn't working"

    The overwhelming majority of cases are decided perfectly properly - only a small minority choose to appeal.

    I think it might be that a false picture is being painted - the people who are happy with their result are a lot less vocal than the people (including me) that aren't...

  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    Exactly far more claimants are awarded PIP on a first application than are refused.
    I can't remember the exact figures but for those that 'win' at a Tribunal they represent less than 1% of the total number of PIP applications made.
    So given that more higher rate awards are being made under PIP than under DLA and that such a small percentage of claimants 'win' at a Tribunal the system does seem to be working. 
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    I was awarded it back in 2013 and have done so up until now for the same heart condition I was diagnosed with in 2013 the only difference between 2013 and now is I now have chronic kidney disease stage 3 and also osteoarthritis my heart condition is still the same ?????
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    I am in constant pain with my OA I have an occupational therapist who has supplied me with a bath lift as I can’t get in or out of the bath and also a toilet frame and seat she can’t adapt my stairs and fit a stair lift as I am in private rented accommodation so now my front reception room is being turned into my bedroom I have a riser recliner chair also I take pain medication for my OA. 

    My heart condition causes me to pass out without warning hence why I need 24/7 supervision I take beta blockers for this my heart beats at 38bpm which is bradycardia sinus rhythm ( beats to slow) where normal heart rate is between 60-70bpm this is what has caused my depression and anxiety as I won’t leave the house without someone being with me as I am in constant fear of passing out in a public place and people staring at me. 

    They were sent all the medical evidence they needed to back what I am saying up ( why I sent it though I don’t know because they didn’t use it I was told over the phone to come to there second decision ) I’m just fighting a loosing battle 
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    I don’t take them for bradycardia I take them for my heart condition which causes me to pass out but because I take them they have caused to heart to beat in bradycardia sinus rhythm but I can’t not take them due to my heart condition 

    I haven’t asked for a report from my occupational therapist but I shall be asking now but what good it will do I don’t know because like i said they didn’t use any of medical evidence I sent in for my mandatory reconsideration they just used the f2f assessors report again which according to them because I squeezed her hands during the assessment that grants that I don’t have anything wrong with the joints in my body !! What have my hands got to do with my knees which is where my OA is ?? 
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    I went from standard rate care and standard rate mobility to scoring absolutely 0 !!! It just does not make sense 
  • Joanne21Joanne21 Member Posts: 11 Connected
    No mine does not state this my last award was awarded in 2016 for a longer period as my needs will be requiring care for a longer period of time and now suddenly I don’t qualify at all 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    Joanne21 said:
    I am in constant pain with my OA I have an occupational therapist who has supplied me with a bath lift as I can’t get in or out of the bath and also a toilet frame and seat she can’t adapt my stairs and fit a stair lift as I am in private rented accommodation so now my front reception room is being turned into my bedroom I have a riser recliner chair also I take pain medication for my OA. 

    I wonder if you saw my OT from Social Services.
    Mine was as keen as mustard to want to turn my home into something that looked like a care home. Electric bathlift, perching stool, two toilet frames and bigger seats as well as a contraption at the side of the bed to help me get in and out of bed.
    The assessor/DWP decided that only one of those aids would qualify as the others were deemed as being used by way of choice and not need.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @twonker are you a previous poster with a new user name? :o Just curious because most of your posts remind me of someone. The only difference being is that i believe you have a current PIP award, if i'm not mistaken.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    @twonker are you a previous poster with a new user name? :o Just curious because most of your posts remind me of someone. The only difference being is that i believe you have a current PIP award, if i'm not mistaken.
    This is the second person that has said similar. I posted a reply to ilovecats a week or so ago telling her/him that I am not a previous person.
    For goodness sake.

  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    Proving what's wrong is very hard now, its no good just having a doctors letter, you need reports from specialists, sadly even these will cut little ice now, just had a letter (Sat) from assessment centre, "After viewing your complaint the report does contain some errors but  seems fit for purpose, we contacted Mrs* and her response indicated failing in some descriptors and information incorrectly recorded" "We have included the complaint and advised it be used for further training"

    Neurologist, Physio, rehabilitation centre, audiologist reports all account for nothing, 
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    All the reports say what the problem was and how it effected her, Neurologist report says nerve damage and list the balance % and effect on walking, there is some specific details on other functions which are problems now, standing is a problem as due to the damage she thinks she is standing still but is actually falling backwards, the Vestibular nerve has been damaged to the extent of total loss of balance, it was thought BPPV was an issue but this was cleared as a cause. 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    ilovecats said:


    If the letters said something along the lines of: "Mrs X has a degenerative spine at L5 & 6, and this causes her great pain when moving and bending and impairs her ability to flex forward" then that is medical proof, that cannot be refuted by the assessor.
    You may well have accepted a report of that nature but my assessor did not. It was not even recorded as being used by the DWP.
    Although the report is now some 6 years old, the contents are as of today. You just don't get better or have a reduced impact if you have been assessed by professionals to have a form of dementia. You just don't improve if you have had a head injury plus a whole load of other mental health issues. The report went through all of the tests I have had, what the results were of those tests and finally identifying how the all of that affected my life. 


  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    It's a problem for now we will see how it plays out, one issue is the PIP can be assessed by a HCP i.e. anyone with training, paramedic, nurse, physio, but for ESA some illnesses must be assessed by a doctor, the other half had ESA and a full report from the DWP own disability analyst, pretty much the same as the Neurologist report, she cant stand or walk in a straight line, movement poor (has been since surgery) but because the PIP don't need to assess medical conditions the same way, she gets marked down even with the reports.  
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