Awful experience with pip assessment

emilyjane15

So how is someone with severe anxiety, depression and PTSD assessed? Someone who can't leave the home without a trusted person and rarely leaves the home at all??

twonker

ilovecats said:

cristobal said:

@ilovecats - I think we might not agree on this! 

According to DWP guidelines (from a worked example):

"In a reasonable time period –The walking speed which is deemed within a reasonable time period is 30 metres per minute."

This is a bit cheeky on behalf of the DWP because the actual figure should be about 40m/minute, based on generally acknowledged average walking speeds. It varies, as you say, but 3MPH is average. I don't know whether, legally, they can just make up their own figure.

So, if you use (slightly dubious) DWP figure anyone walking slower will score 12 points, without any need for further consideration....

Sorry...I've gone off topic - but hopefully it might be useful for others to know what the DWP/assessors think is a slow walk... 

It’s ok not to agree!

To be honest, I used to find activity 12 very difficult to assess and apply descriptors to because although there are speed guidances, they are so ambiguous. 

You are technically correct, if someone is walking less than 30m per minute then by their own guidance it should be an E. This is not however something I remember being drilled in during my training. More onus is put on safely, reliably and repeatedly rather than speed.

The logic being if someone can walk a mile lets say, but does it very slowly (<30m per min), if they can do it safely and reliably and on the majority of days, should that person be awarded PIP mobility . . . 

So on that basis the assessor is being trained to ignore part of the legislation?
The relevant legislation says that you must consider safely, reliably, repeatedly AND less than a half the time it would take someone who is not disabled,  for the majority of the days.
Taking your comment. If someone can walk a mile but takes an hour + to complete the walk that is approx. 1mph which in any bodies book is extremely slow. Whether that person could do it safely, reliably and repeatedly should be irrelevant. Maybe the reason for such a slow walk is down to hip/lower spinal issues or even PAD. 

cristobal

The logic being if someone can walk a mile lets say, but does it very slowly (<30m per min), if they can do it safely and reliably and on the majority of days, should that person be awarded PIP mobility . . . 

@ilovecats - I've thought about your point very carefully and my answer is 'Yes' they should' be awarded. 

Essentially because the DWP have already worked a little fiddle in concluding that the "within a reasonable time' amounts to 30m/1min when it should be greater, so they've already shaved a bit off. 

Excluding people who can't even manage the lower figure is a step too far I think..it's for the government to change the criteria, if they think that they are too 'generous'

@emilyjane15 - sorry for going off-topic.

poppy123456

emilyjane15 said:

So how is someone with severe anxiety, depression and PTSD assessed? Someone who can't leave the home without a trusted person and rarely leaves the home at all??

That's part of following and planning a journey and not the moving around part, which is what this thread is about.

cristobal

@emilyjane15 - sorry I don't understand how the 'following and planning a journey' works; makes no sense to me at all...hopefully @ilovecats will be able to answer///

twonker

cristobal said:

The logic being if someone can walk a mile lets say, but does it very slowly (<30m per min), if they can do it safely and reliably and on the majority of days, should that person be awarded PIP mobility . . . 

@ilovecats - I've thought about your point very carefully and my answer is 'Yes' they should' be awarded. 

Essentially because the DWP have already worked a little fiddle in concluding that the "within a reasonable time' amounts to 30m/1min when it should be greater, so they've already shaved a bit off. 

Excluding people who can't even manage the lower figure is a step too far I think..it's for the government to change the criteria, if they think that they are too 'generous'

@emilyjane15 - sorry for going off-topic.

I agree. The 30m in 1 min as I have said is close to 1mph. The accepted normal rate is about 2.8mph for the elderly and 3.4mph for the young. Take the average as 3mph. As you say they have shaved it down to 1mph as defined as within a reasonable time. So half the rate is .5mph - 15m per 1min!!
Talk about taking liberties and yet another example of the DWP trying their damnest to defeat as many claims as they can by moving the goalposts.
Reasonable time is as I have stated 3mph for those in good health. Half of that time should be 1.5 mph NOT .5mph!

emilyjane15

poppy123456 this is my thread lol

emilyjane15

ilovecats
I mean for someone who actually struggles to go outside due to mental health. Anxiety etc without a person being with them 

[Deleted User]

@emilyjane15 don't know if this link would help you at all - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

Princess81

Hi all,

My husband’s sister in law (previous marriage) has adults Stills Disease. She went to Tribunal on the 23/1/19 in Enfield. She was awarded 8 points for DLA and 10 points for mobility.

They've said she's only entitled to the Standard rate from 11/7/18 to 8/5/2021. This means she won't qualify to keep her mobility car.

There were many inaccuracies highlighted at the tribunal in regards to medical reports and also at her face to face assessment she was never asked to walk/observed doing activities, arrived in a wheelchair which was pushed by her sister (her carer).

Without her car she is housebound and also cannot attend hospital appointments as no one else but she in the family can drive.

Following on from the above, we sat down with CAB and they advised to re-apply under new circumstances/changes, I took the old forms and the last assessment and the reports from the tribunal and ripped it apart, i found that the tribunal had more or less written verbatim what the assessment had and the assessment was littered with mistakes, the assessor had said that she couldn't eat without the use of aids and yet when they scored it said that she didn't need aids, that was one of many, i highlighted and commented on each one and submitted pictures and cross referenced them in the report and also when tearing apart the assessment documents highlighted the pictures with the aids used - all of which i might add she's purchased herself! After waiting the best part of 6 weeks, she received a letter asking about ESA and has been called in for an assessment, not sure if this is ESA or PIP but they had the nerve to tell her that she has to make an appointment and see them in the next 7 days! She rang them up and told them to sod off in terms of the timescale that she needs time to arrange it, in coordination with hospital and doctors’ visits, so hoping this time the assessment will go better...

emilyjane15

Can anyone tell me if the esa113 form is also used by pip or are they separate. Do esa and pip work together 

poppy123456

The ESA113 form is what they send your GP and is only used for ESA purposes.

emilyjane15

Thank you. poppy123456

emilyjane15

It's so hard my partners mental health has increasingly esculated due to her PIP award letter. They need to fix there errors and fast. To say in black and white my partner said this and that when she didn't and say she has no history of mental health issues or psychological distress when she has 2 decades of this. My partner is broken and convinced it's because they think she is worthless .
I pray someone takes this seriously how can people be made to feel punished for traumatic events that impact on the ability to feel part of society 
Story at top of thread 

marie10

Hi I just been turned down for pip I took it all the way to tribunal  the whole thing very stressful they sent letter saying they understand I have fybromyalgia and other problems but I not entitled you see i keep going doing as much as I can because I have a disabled child but every day every thing I do is a struggle It be so hard that i nearly ended it all but no i not bad enough for pip wish i never tried for it .