Does anyone know how to get a private C.P.S. Trauma expert letter in London? — Scope | Disability forum
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Does anyone know how to get a private C.P.S. Trauma expert letter in London?

newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
Or a  N.S.T. (Non State Torture) Expert?


  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,565 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @newborn,, have you had any luck with this?

  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    No nothing at all
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    I have a week left to get a letter to prevent a personal disaster,  from being crushed through a relentless  inflexible bureaucratic machine .    I can comply with all rules, but not with being singled out for  unusual  and worse treatment, especially when it involves re-enacting  power  abuse.    (The child selected to be taken into the shed, the ones pulled out of the dormitory to be locked in car boots)

    Equalities law means  i can avoid it if i  get an explanatory letter from a trauma    specialist      (  because  of traumatic  past  i hate hate begging so i absolutely must have any help PRivately paid from my own pocket so I'm in control)

    The thing about being a torture survivor is you are more  than average in need of being in control.  But you simply  do   N  O  T   fit any pathological  mental disease label.   E.g. Being in a lift is fine, so you do   N   O  T   have claustrophobia.    You are quiet and conformist and comply with all conventions.  You won't  break the speed limit, because  you will be more obedient  than average.   

    But   being  under orders you must obey,  is re-torture.   

     People have you under their control. Usually in a place and a time they order, you obey.  They have power to do something  to  you

    You probably will be highly practiced at self control.

       You probably cannot show distress. You probably cannot cry out in pain. You never expect  anyone to help or have mercy or treat you as an equal human, when they have power over you.

     On the surface you are just not responding to any ill treatment,, or any inner re enactment of extreme power abuse.   You will be a bully magnet though, and it is true "all power tends to corrupt, abbsolute power to corrupt absolutely".

    Being in someone's  power causes damage  to you.     It is   inadvertent if people believe they are merely grinding you through their routine administrative processes.     But it will be escalating and deliberate if there are any bullies in the vicinity.       

    Either way, you will be forced to go to be interrogated,  to seek  treatment  for an injury , or  whatever else people want to do to you, in a building where they,  not you,   can choose to come and go, lock doors, bring others in.       

    I can explain that problem here.    But there is no generally well known description.  N.S.T.Survivor would be correct, but few have heard of it, fewer would comprehend.  Non-State-Torture-Survivor is beginning to be U.N. accepted, and Canada seems to be leading.     

    I cannot claim a mentally diseased label.   First, because  'nothing fits except where it passes'   

    Second, because   I would  dread being branded.     Here ,  and in theory everywhere, everyone  claims there is no stigma in going round with mental illness labels,  never mind if they fit or don't fit..   On the other hand,  I  have never met anyone who would truly look forward to being locked up in a 'care home'  wearing the label 'senile'.

    I would  be more than average  in dread of being disempowered,  disrespected, disbelieved, dehumanised.

    Just as i would fear taking drink or drugs  and therefore reducing my full control of myself, which would disempower me and make me even more vulnerable to any potential bullies and power abusers.

    Does that sound crazy, or  is it understandable?

    And, can anyone suggest where I can get the authoratitive letter I need?
  • Ellick
    Ellick Member Posts: 3 Listener

    Try this organisation, they may be able to help you. Ellick.

    Medical Foundation For The Care Of Victims Of Torture

  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,565 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    Hi @newborn

    We are concerned about you and have emailed you directly to offer some additional support, please do check your email.

    You may also find this link useful:  

    Please continue to post on here or email us directly at [email protected] where we will try help.

    As a pan-disability charity, it would be fair to say that our strengths in information and advice lie in the daily lives of disabled people.  As a social model organisation, we don’t have the expertise or qualifications to give detailed advice on medical issues or treatments.

    So, although it isn’t within our gift to provide you with that sort of support here at Scope, we hope that we have given you some useful pointers to organisations that might be more equipped to support you.


  • MickConnon
    MickConnon Member Posts: 56 Courageous
    [email protected], I have read this post and am scratching my head to be honest as it is something very specialist. No-one can take away the feelings and what you have went through away from you but as @Chloe_Scope suggests there will be support available out there for you at the websites. Being a victim of torture is a very emotive subject and needs appropriate professional support to try to overcome this. No-one can ever understand or appreciate what you have went through but we are listening.At the end of the day, I am a MH professional but I have to realise my own limitations as such. We hope that you find the support you need from the links that have been suggested. 

    Take care and all the best to you 
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    Thank you.   
    Could I make a comparison?     Think of two people whose starting point assumptions are equally logical, based on their almost invariable experiences throughout  their lives.

    One, A,   believes and expects  that the world is safe, supportive, filled with, predominantly,   benevolent people. They know that some people  love and care for them, someone  will always defend them.     For them,  it is not an unreasonable assumption.   It has almost always  been  true.   They can reassure themselves that it is still true. These family members, these friends, these officials, are all proven to be reliable.   A people  are accustomed to  requesting, and being given, every manner of appropriate  help.

    The other, B,  has the opposite experience, undefended since birth and throughout  life.   They don't automatically assume  everyone will harm them, but  neither can they dismiss lifelong experience.    What happened  to  them in the past, what practical situations  they  live in now ,  are simply just statements  of facts.  Not irrational, not untrue, not imaginary, not emotional,  not unfounded beliefs to be  'corrected'.     Facts,   and logical responses to facts,  are not pathological faults.     Nobody  can be 'treated' for fact, only for unreasonable behaviour or untrue unfounded belief.   But  B people  behave, and think,  logically and reasonably.  Their beliefs are true and well founded.  It would not be logical and not be reasonable for them to have a default assumption that 'all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.'

    One day,  person  A has some UNreasonable UNfounded thoughts and behaviour, or else some practical  problems.   At once, they turn to any one of the supportive circles available,  safe in knowing  that if a social worker or medical person attempted  to  use power to harm them, then their private supporters will hurry to their rescue.  

    The same day, person B has a non-imaginary practical  problem, where for once they cannot be self-sufficient.   So, B tries every apparent  way to get someone to reach out a hand.    They hate being beggars, but they do their best . "Go Away" is the message everywhere.  "We only help learning disabled" "we only help mentally  ill"  "we only help people in a different area/only gays/ only immigrants/only this or that religion. ...only young people"  ......and so on.       B  people  will be getting  pretty downhearted.       Their efforts  are failing to  get one  (personally paid ) substitute  to advocate their cause.    But a substitute  is neededed, because  B people  do N O T have some caring relative or friend or partner, ready and able  to stand by their side in this particular practical  battle.

    Should B people be forced to  pretend to be mentally ill, and beg 'treatment'  for the fact they are alone in the world?  They will, unlike A people,  hold reasonable and logical  reservations about flinging themselves into a processing system,  being  understandably cautious about being disempowered.     

  • MickConnon
    MickConnon Member Posts: 56 Courageous
    Hi @newborn I have read your comparison and although I can see exactly where you are coming from, and understand your logic for this, no one is telling you to go away, if that had been the case then the posts would have been unanswered. We each have a different perception of things, in a lot of cases it is good as it shows how individual we all are as that is exactly that, unique. However, experiences as we go through life mould us into what we are and I have questioned what normal actually is😁. I have a specific set of skills which I have picked up over 10 years which is why I choose to be here to help people when I know I can. You you are one of those people but it is not about turning anyone away, it is about realising that that appropriate specialist support is needed. I have learned a lot since being on this forum and do not confess to know everything about Mental Health as things are continually changing. It is about being open and honest that the services mentioned to you before might be more appropriate? I am not a Therapist, Psychiatrist, Psychologist nor a Psychotherapist. I am a Nurse who is listening and answering as best as I possibly can. The answers you may want sometimes I am not able to give you those. I’m sure I speak for the majority of advisors on here that we do this because we want to but at the end of the day we are that, fellow human beings with limitations but who care at the end of the day. 
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    Again there seems to be an assumption that nobody is ever alone and needing someone on their side.  There is no such thing as a practical problem.    People  are  assumed without exception to have a supply of partners, family, friends, uncle tom cobley and all.    If anybody  ever seems to be in need of help, it could only be to treat their deranged brains.

    Assume you set off in an air balloon  which explodes over a remote desert. It is amazing you survive at all, but you now have a broken leg, no water, and no internet signal.   

     Do you need mental health therapy?

    Or do you need practical help, mainly for water, then shade, then rescue?.   

    If someone on a passing camel spots you, as you crawl over the burning sand,  will it help if, instead of giving you even a few teaspoons of water,  he enquires about your emotions?!?  Then tells you he never saw an air balloon, therefore there is no such thing, therefore, presumably,  you are not really injured, not really in need of water either, just lying.   

    And in any case, he never heard of anyone who doesn't  have an entire tribe to search the desert for them if they were ever lost.  So it's  up to your own tribe, whoever they are, to bring water and rescue you.    You will begin to make him really annoyed, if on top of the lie that there are such things as air balloons, you add the obvious falsehood that you are alone, and have no nearby tribe.  In all his life, he never heard of anyone who doesn't  have family and tribe nearby, when they go into the desert.

    It's  the people who reject, who hurt most. As one  child of  a famous couple said, (after telling mummy what the stepfather was doing , )   " First you are ignored, then disbelieved,  finally demonised "  . 

    Sure enough, that child was drugged and locked up for 'treatment' for telling the facts everyone  chose to believe must be wicked lies, about such a famous stepfather,  therefore everyone chose  to agree she must be crazy and must be needing correction for her deranged mind.     

    No amount of treatment cured her of simply telling the facts.      So, the treatment became more intense, the drugs stronger, the incarceration longer, and eventually she really was mentally damaged, by the 'treatment'. Years later,  things the same man did to other small girls began to make it look probable she never was lying, and should never have been forcibly 'treated'. 
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    I am shocked that I didn't make myself clear.   I'm  sorry.   I meant that the organisations  for learning disabled people  obviously  reject others, who are not learning disabled. The ones for Scotland  obviously turn away enquiries from Cornwall.  Those for alcoholics naturally wouldn't  speak to a non drinker, and so on.     It is only to be expected,  but having  a row of conveyor belts each specialising in their chosen group, must inevitably  result  in  some subsets of people  being  effectively  told they have  never been thought about at all, therefore there is no conveyor belt for their kind, therefore they  and anyone like them will be officially  non-existent.

    .That isn't applicable to  Scope, and in particular  isn't some form of complaint directed at you.  !   Just the opposite. 

    It is fantastic  that people respond on boards, especially someone like you who is an insider expert.  It is appreciated  greatly.    The words 'thank  you' seem inadequate.  But thank you anyway.
  • MickConnon
    MickConnon Member Posts: 56 Courageous
    @newborn only clarifying that was all 😁. Am still listening and will continue to do so. If anything, am here as you know well to help as much as I can albeit low level. Scope are brilliant at what they do and we do try our best but appreciate what you say about people falling between the cracks or the conveyor belts. An analogy I haven’t thought of before, but thanks for giving me that thought 😁. Am still listening.......
  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,565 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    Good morning @newborn and thank you for continuing to share this with us. I have read your posts and find your insight really interesting and your ability to articulate how you feel. Without practical support I imagine it is quite lonely when you don’t know where to turn and I am sorry you have felt ignored at times. The reason why we have directed you towards mental health support was to enable you to see someone who specialises in trauma, given the understandably large impact it has had on your life. Talking this through with someone trained in the area may be beneficial. We are always more than happy to listen and hope you continue to use the community as a support network as you are a valued member.

  • MickConnon
    MickConnon Member Posts: 56 Courageous
    Hi again @newborn. I’d also like to mirror @Chloe_Scope in what she has said. I am still here and am listening. 😁
  • Anonnymouse
    Anonnymouse Member Posts: 15 Connected
    Newborn .... have such a similar problem ... have a similar history in that compliance is our key but that in itself is abusive and no one can understand ! No label fits ... and no funding for specialists. No practical advice but wanted to say thank you for explaining it so well ... never found anyone who got it .... X 
  • Waylay
    Waylay Member Posts: 970 Pioneering
    Hi @newborn (and @Anonnymouse ), I've had some experiences which made me a B person for most of my life, and I understand what @newborn wrote above, as well as what @Anonnymouse wrote in another post.

    1. It can change! In the past five years I've been lucky enough to meet a partner AND a counselor who ARE actually on my side, who support me, and who ARE there for me when I need them. Recently I met an 3rd person like that. I'm 44 now, and for the first time in my life I'm actually in trusting relationships with these people. It's an incredibly vulnerable place to be, but also incredibly wonderful. It's not perfect, and I'm still changing my viewpoint on the world, slowly. It's difficult, but good.

    2. I've been in the MH system in 3 countries. A few therapists have helped, some have been neutral, some have, as you describe, @newborn , tried to force compliance, etc., which has been very damaging. I've had the wrong diagnosis for years (Borderline PD), which has caused an enormous amount of stigma and problems for me (which is extremely unfair - I know many people with BPD, and none of them deserve treatment like that!).

    I discovered Complex Post-traumatic Stress Disorder a few years ago. It's a "diagnosis" for people who have gone through prolonged traumatic experiences, often as children (often abuse by caregivers). It's actually not a mental illness; it describes what people believe and act like when trauma has affected their lives. It doesn't assume that those beliefs and actions are "crazy" or "irrational" - they make sense given the lives they've had. Therapy tries to help them cope with any symptoms causing them problems, change actions which are not working for them, etc. (or so I hear - I haven't managed to get any therapy so far). What you describe sounds so much like me. I wonder if C-PTSD is a way of describing B people?


    3. There are private trauma therapists/clinics/etc., particularly in London, which can likely give you what you need. I haven't gone to any of them because I can't afford it, so I can't recommend one, unfortunately. Search for trauma treatment, trauma clinic, etc.?

    I know this may be too late. I didn't see your post until today.

    4. There are C-PTSD/trauma support groups which are really helpful on the web. DM me if you want!

    Solidarity and caring.
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    Thanks for replying,  Waylay and others. 

    Annonymouse- I'm lost in admiration for that name!
  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    Medical foundation for care of victims of torture looks like a good fit, seems to offer walk in company and service and expert assistance of every kind, for immigrants in north London, plus running an income stream  by writing expert  reports  for a fee.   But.... only when instructed by Immigration lawyers.   

    They won't see or write a report on individuals no matter if they are offered the full fee in cash in advance.  Meanwhile, those same immigration  lawyers will not take non-immigrants as clients,  even with fees at £600 an hour, so they will not refer any non-immigrant to this torture  expertise  centre, which  is apparently the only one in u.k....

    ......possibly there is also a place in ?Maudsley? But only for extremely mentally ill, and again, immigrant-only.

    I keep coming back to the point that the  facts are facts, and cannot be 'cured'.  Those who are born without arms or legs, for instance,   cannot take counselling or psychotherapy to  'treat' them for 'feeling ' limbless,  nor even for  the practical difficulties of  their everyday lives. 

      Being patted on the head as A Poor Thing  helps  nobody.   Being  respected, empowered, treated as an equal  human being and encouraged and given practical support  helps a lot. Allison Lapper managed to raise a baby and earn an income by becoming a painter,  using  her mouth to grip the  brush.     Prof S. Hawkins became famous  and rich while completely physically helpless.  Both needed practical  help. Both demanded respect .

    It's  no good running an official system of any kind which demands that every participant must climb onto the chair in the correct interview room,  as a pre-condition for any citizen to access the service. 

    It's  no good demanding that  everyone,  without exception,  must conform to any stereotype. 

    It's  no good demanding that there will be no leeway or adjustments made for those whose different  needs result from being without the ability to conform. 
     E.g. victims of prolonged extreme powerlessness are not capable of  functioning  while power is being used to force their obedient compliance.

    To mainstream population,  with stereotypical sets of four limbs, it is hard to comprehend or believe that a minority group of people  will  find that attending a certain office and climbing onto the interview chair is an impossible  demand.

    To mainstream population,  with  stereotypical life experiences,  it is hard  to  comprehend or believe that  a minority group of people  don't  have florid extreme visible stereotypical fear symptoms such as rushing round screaming.
    ( Just as  some people  don't  conform to the stereotypes of raped people  being mud splattered,  with torn clothes and cuts and bruises, and weeping correctly. ) 
    Nevertheless , some extreme survivors will find it secretly terrifying, 'impossible or virtually impossible '  to conform to coercive practices.    They can not obey orders to attend a certain office at a certain  time  and submit to whatever  the  person in power wishes to demand.     

    It is too close to re-enacting previous  years of helplessness, as child and adult.   In  the  strange building,  they have no control.  They will  probably be locked in  a strange room in a strange building by a security   code they don't  know.   The person who has taken control over them can call his pals, but victims are undefended.   Rationally,  it isn't  that the victim  expects to be physically  assaulted  again, but equally  rationally,  he knows there are many ways for bullies to abuse power.

    He knows he will be powerless to escape,  while obeying interrogation and giving a complete set of perfect replies to an official who may or may not sense they have taken control of  an inwardly cringing, terrified,  'born victim' .    Power abusing innate bullies sense weakness like cats responding to cat-nip

    Those survivors who were unprotected and alone and unsupported  from infancy probably  try to conform  and not show their  vulnerability.   But no matter how much they manage to thrive in  other areas,  being in someone's  power is always a  problem. 

      A conveyor belt system excludes  not only those with clear physical  or mental labels. 

    It also  excludes  anyone  who has a lifelong expectation  arising  from hideous past experiences.  He  knows all power tends to corrupt.   He knows, as fact not theory. As factual  experience,  not  as unreasonable  fear.   Those with with power to help sometimes just do their job.   But he knows he brings out any bullying tendencies in people with power.    Most officials can, on a whim, choose to be kind or fair, or  choose instead to obstruct, to make  supplicant's lives miserable,  to frustrate and bully, to 'lose' paperwork,   not to reply,  to strain to find some real or pretended fault.

    One man recently managed to speak to a  uniquely specialist solicitor.  He had such horrors as a child that he simply lives his whole life completely under radar, unknown to any officials.    There is an example of  someone  who  would  rather  jump in the river than be trapped  in the total power of any social worker,  charity do-gooder, crime system or welfare system or health  system.

    Another person was so isolated since birth she had  no idea what  it was to have a home, family, belongings, friends, or anyone in the world to care if she was dead or alive. Nobody spoke to her except to give orders. She wasn't given  information,  or it was contradictory, so she didn't  know her name or date of birth or next of kin addresses .   There is another example of a person who has had to be strong and self-sufficient,  but lives in permanent fear of being trapped in anyone's power, and who regards living under radar as the best safety.  

    Both of those people don't  ask anything from anyone and both have a horror of what might seem like routine official forms and interrogation.     
       They would  be  astounded that other people, most people,  live in such a strange, totally  secure, protected world that they are willing to get drunk or take drugs in expectation  that  while they are unable to protect themselves they will be unharmed. 
        Both those people would also be astounded  that others give out photos and full information  online. Information is power.  Information demanded is a potential weapon  against the person  being forced to provide it unwillingly .

    Both those people would be astounded that  other people would happily get labelled mentally deranged,  therefore undermined, disempowered,  and potentially disbelieved and harmed for life by the label, let alone by the apparently addictive prescription chemicals  and potentially damaging 'talking treatment'.     Nobody on earth would gladly get locked into an old people 's care home.    Yet some people  seem to have no dread about getting locked into what used to be called  mad-houses.   Those two survivors would regard that as  amazingly  brave.  As brave as going into burning buildings or snake pits.

  • Waylay
    Waylay Member Posts: 970 Pioneering
    @newborn I'm stunned by the insight in your post above. I mean, your previous posts have been insightful too, but this last one... It made me dissociate a couple of times (not blaming you at all for that - I knew what you were likely to write about), but I kept coming back to it because it is SO... YES, TRUTH to me. Thank you. I've never been able to put these feelings into words like this.

    I'd like to send it to my therapist and my partner to help them to understand me better, but I don't want to do that w/o your permission (it would bother me, so I suspect it might bother you). I'd remove your name and not tell them where I got it, although I'd tell them I didn't write it. I'll wait until I hear from you (here or in a DM).

    There is an outpatient programme at the Maudsley: . I've only read about it.

  • newborn
    newborn Member Posts: 728 Pioneering
    Of course if it helps.  And of course as you say, make it not easily traceable.    Among ourselves, anything is shareable because everyone is one of us, or at least can more  or less speak the language.    

    Sometimes  it's daunting or hopeless to attempt communication when the other person requires a full education as a preamble, or else he cannot comprehend.   

    Physically disabled people were pleased to introduce ''spoons' in online chats among themselves.  It was the idea that, for many, a fixed or a fluctuating ration of units would be available to them on a day. Units of strength, or of concentration,  or stamina, or pain-free hours.  They could mention among themselves  that they had for instance been hoarding 'spoons' to go for an outing, after which they would need to spend days in bed, overdrawn.

    On Pandora's  aquarium,  someone might mention that naturally,  she can't  go for gynea checks, and the others will not need anything spelled out. Lots will say me, too.  Others will realise that  of course, it's  out of the question. 

    Ignorance among the general public is hard enough,  but it is unforgivable when people  who  make  an income out of unhappiness cannot  be bothered to get themselves educated sufficiently to avoid doing serious harm.  Some of the remarks mentioned on havoca,  or Pandy's,  are beyond bad.   

    A woman mentions that she has had 40 years of 'treatment ', the first psychiatrist raped her. Another records that her friend, a child  rape survivor,  has revealed  to a counsellor that she has impaired trust-judgement, and fails to assert herself, to the point where, as an adult, over the years there have been three situations she realises could only be defined as rape . The 'counsellor ' declared it was completely impossible  one person could be raped three times, therefore the client was defined as a lying fantasist needing cure for her deranged delusions. 

    Others keep secrets for decades,  then reveal to the one person in the world who is completely reliable, a partner, lifelong friend, or the most loving kindly family member.   That person then turns away in revulsion,  believing or not, as though only a disgusting contemptible 'evil child' could have been treated so badly, so if it's  true, it's  too repellent to have anything to do with the survivor, and of course if it isn't  true, its almost worse. Mia Farrow's daughter said "first they ignore you, then they disbelieve you, finally they demonise you".
  • Waylay
    Waylay Member Posts: 970 Pioneering
    edited September 2019

    Thank you. Untraceable, don't worry!

    Have you had any success in your quest?

    *triggers below - child sexual abuse, horrendous MH worker*

    What you wrote above reminds me of a friend. I was the first person they ever told about the abuse (sexual) they went through as a child. They've been trying to get help through NHS MH services. They finally told a mental health worker they'd seen several times about the abuse (2nd person they told - panic attacks for days afterward). Very little response from the MH worker at the time. A couple of weeks later they received a copy of a letter from the MH worker to their GP. It offered a few sessions of CBT (more than many get, but not even close to enough). It also said something along the lines of, "Has delusions of being victimized by a paedophile as a child. Be alert for further evidence of delusional thinking." Friend hospitalised a few hours later. 

    Disgusting. I have no words.


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