PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Report

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
edited May 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hello,

I just got a copy of my PIP report and well, lets just say, it's nothing like my first assessment report, I'm not going to go into fully because I don't want to sound like I'm moaning, I will just say that it looks like my award is going from enhanced to standard and that the assessor wasn't exactly honest and even scored me points in something I told him I didn't have problems with... I'm just going to wait for the decision letter and ask Welfare Rights to help with the MR, I've made them aware of the report. It was recorded so I'll have it transcribed if needed.

Just a question, if you get standard for both does anything change in regards to Carers? (my Son is my carer) Is there anything else that I need to be aware of? Also, he's put a review in 2 years, does that mean it'll be 3 but the usual 12 months early? Oh and I also lose the enhanced premium *sigh*.

I was just wondering, is it worth complaining to the assessment company about him telling lies? I mean they do have a copy of the recording.

Thanks in advance

Replies

  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,472 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    Hi @WF2K sorry to hear what has happened, has your son been in receipt of carers allowance?
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Yeah he has and thank you.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,472 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    As for anything else, I am unsure but hopefully our community members will be in contact soon to shed some light.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi, 

    the carers allowance will continue because you just need a daily living award of PIP. 

    The enhanced disability premium is automatically paid if paid of in support group of ESA. If in the WRAG it will stop because you need Enhanced daily living. 

    If it suggests review in 2 years it will be 2 years with a 3 year award. They usually go with the report. Of course you’ll need to wait for the decision before requesting the MR.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • davetdavet Member Posts: 77 Courageous
    Hi
    I can only comment on your question regarding making a complaint to the assessing company,

    I complained to mine regarding how points were actually missed on the assessors reportand how some of his comments were shall we say misleading, I suffered a stroke which left my left leg very weak and with a mind of its own, during my assessment I was asked to loosely cross my left leg over my right knee without using my hands, in my attempt to swing my leg over I lost my balance and fell onto the desk, the assessor even made a joke about it saying"be careful we dont want you leaving more disabled than when you arrived yet his report said that I completed all exercises he asked me to do, he also commented that at the end of the assessment I easily bent over and picked my bag up from the floor, however he did not mention that I was sitting in a chair at the time. I got a letter from them full of waffle about how they employ professional staff. I kept my complaint and their response just in case I needed it at some later date but as expected my complaint resolved nothing
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    @Ami2301 check what Poppy said above :) 

    Thank you @poppy123456 I'm in WRAG which a tribunal put me in, never bothered to appeal it because I didn't think I could.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @davet thanks for that, so there's pretty much no point in complaining then?
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,472 Disability Gamechanger
    I apologise @WF2K I should have double checked. Benefits are confusing sometimes!
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    When writing the letter for the MR you should concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and why, adding 2-3 real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    This guide may help you understand the descriptors more.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Thanks @poppy123456 but I think Welfare Rights will be doing the MR, I'll discuss that with them, I had already checked the link you have pasted and I was pretty honest and even marked myself down on a couple (gave myself less than what the first assessor did). I don't think I'll get anywhere with the MR though and I'm not sure about the tribunal either.
  • carmycarmy Member Posts: 2 Listener
    WF2k said:
    Hello,

    I just got a copy of my PIP report and well, lets just say, it's nothing like my first assessment report, I'm not going to go into fully because I don't want to sound like I'm moaning, I will just say that it looks like my award is going from enhanced to standard and that the assessor wasn't exactly honest and even scored me points in something I told him I didn't have problems with... I'm just going to wait for the decision letter and ask Welfare Rights to help with the MR, I've made them aware of the report. It was recorded so I'll have it transcribed if needed.

    Just a question, if you get standard for both does anything change in regards to Carers? (my Son is my carer) Is there anything else that I need to be aware of? Also, he's put a review in 2 years, does that mean it'll be 3 but the usual 12 months early? Oh and I also lose the enhanced premium *sigh*.

    I was just wondering, is it worth complaining to the assessment company about him telling lies? I mean they do have a copy of the recording.

    Thanks in advance
    Personally i would appeal, if you go to welfare rights onto your case, they will help you all the way, they know what they are doing. They will help you to fight your case. Medical evidence is handy! Good luck!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    Don't really have any medical evidence due to treatment either not working (for mental health, which my previous GP sent a letter in for my first claim and stated this and I was awarded enhanced) or the GP won't refer me in regards to my fibromyalgia.. so yeah, bit stuck really. Will see what Welfare Rights has to say.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @WF2k - you say that the assessor has scored you points in one area where you said you didn't have a problem.

    I'm not familiar with the MR process but isn't there a strong possibility that DWP will take these points away?

    Welfare rights will advise you best - just be careful that you don't end up worse off after MR!!

     
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    It helps to have something to show you really have a problem, but to be honest they ignore anything you give them if they like, we had doctors, physio, consultants report, all (except doctors) showing what was wrong, what the effect was, and how damaged the nerves effecting the ability to stand or walk, and a ex-nurse come fitness/physio ignored all of it and put down "fit n able" (shortened version) the Caloric test are hard to fake as you cant control the automatic eye movement and its used to show the vestibular balance level, sadly the nurse had no idea what the reports were or was able to understand them.
    When I complained the supervisor said the report was fit for use, but had errors and the assessor would be advised, he did not understand the test either, were waiting on the reply back as it was escalated to the next level.

    Even with evidence which shows your not faking and details of the operation/consultants report you can still fall foul of "Bad day blues" we knew the assessment was going to be like this as the way she pushed the hospitals reports aside, I had to stop them falling on the floor, she took an instant dislike to us, and its not my imagination, I wish we could have used video. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    @cristobal in all honesty, I'm more concerned that he's swept my mental health problems to one side and yet I've never had treatment for fibromyalgia but he sounds like he's taken my physical health more seriously, I've had different treatments for my mental health but nothing has worked, nothing has changed from the first assessment which the assessor acknowledged that I have mental health problems and they had a letter from my then GP to say that I had tried different things etc. I do have evidence, it's old but still relevant, nothing has changed since the psychiatrist diagnosed me and did his report. There were a lot of things he said that was untrue, but I'm not going to bore everyone with it. I also don't want to come across as someone who is angry because they had their award lowered, it's not that that's bothered me, there is enough stigma attached to mental health problems without this sort of thing adding to it.

    @madquasimodo yeah, I've seen a lot of people say they don't even pay attention to your evidence. They look like they ignored the two letters that were sent in to them and do they even read letters/evidence when you do a MR? doesn't sound like it half of the time, I thought Amber Rudd was meant to be doing something about it.

    I'm slightly annoyed with Welfare Rights as well but I won't go into that, I'll speak to them about it. 
     
    Anyway, I'm going to shut up about it and wait for the decision because moaning won't help any.

    Take care everyone :) 
     
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @WF2k - I don't disagree with what you're saying...

    When I got my assessment back there were some bits that were so completely wrong that I wanted them put right.It wasn't about money. My thinking was that if I allowed them to go uncorrected then it might make things more difficult when there was a review.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Yeah, it's pretty much like being called a liar but I was properly diagnosed with my mental health problems by a psychiatrist who did a full report, I did give the to Welfare Rights but they didn't send it, same as they didn't do 2 - 3 examples on my review from, I knew in my gut that it was going to go wrong because  of the officers attitude, he was very **** sure of himself and wouldn't give me the right advice in regards to medical evidence, just said the onus was on them to prove I had gotten better and then when my Son asked another officer about it, this was his response in regards to evidence:

    "Normally we do not need supporting evidence until taking the case further into a Mandatory Reconsideration. I believe that the health care professional will be asking the relevant questions and making their assessment during the home visit. We will normally write to the GP on behalf of your mother when this is required. I believe that the case needs to be assessed and a decision made first before we seek further evidence, if the outcome isn’t to the points we believe your mother should be awarded."

    I don't even know if that's correct? I've emailed them and told them I'm not happy because of what the assessor put in his report in regards to the questionnaire, he kept saying it wasn't stated on the questionnaire but he knew I didn't fill it in, he asked.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @WF2K - I'm not a benefit adviser, just a claimant like yourself, but that doesn't sound correct to me...if I've read it correctly they're saying "Put this in, and if you're not successful then we'll send supporting evidence" Maybe I've misunderstood?

    Fortunately there's lots of advice on here about the way forward although, as far as I can see, probably best not to bank on anything changing at MR!

    Good luck anyway...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Yes that's exactly how my brain read it too! Glad it's not just me lol.

    Nah, I'm not banking on the MR but I know you have to do it to get the the appeal part, sadly.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hmm that advice you were given about not sending the evidence and if unsuccessful then send it in is not the way i would have done it.

    A lot of people think there's certain words that you have to use when filling out those forms but really there isn't. You just need to make sure you put as much information as possible. I have no idea of the "correct words" or what is meant by that because i'm no expert. I just claim PIP myself but filled in my daughters PIP review form myself this time and it's the first time i've ever done that. I did it exactly the way i advise other to do it on here and added those real life examples and she had a paper based assessment.

    Sometimes it's not always great to get help filling out those forms because the only person that really knows how your conditions affect you is yourself. Just tell it how it is, is my advice to everyone.

    Fingers crossed that you'll be one of those 18% and have the decision changed at MR stage but don't expect too much.

    Good luck.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Thanks Poppy, that what I pasted in my post was taken directly from the email that the Welfare Rights officer sent to my Son. I was pretty mystified by it myself because of what I've seen people like you and cockneyrebel state in your posts so I was thinking the worst anyway. I'm really bad at explaining things and have poor concentration and attention span, I can't even read things properly because of my concentration, my Son has to read my letters and such and I'm constantly double checking what I type on here before I post and even delete things, which is why I ask for help with forms, starting to wish I'd tried somewhere else now :( 

    I was actually considering asking my Son to be my appointee. but I need to discuss it with him properly and look into it further, he deals with a majority of my things anyway and is my appointee at the medical centre.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If you're able to mange your own finances then DWP may not agree for him to become your appointee.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    He helps me with my finances.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    I was reading this post, and it made me think about my partners problems, sadly the DWP don't agree, she used to be a retail manager, loads of paperwork, stocktakes, cashing up, alarms, opening up sorting staff.
    After her operation which she was checked and passed fit for, she cannot write a reply to the DWP/pension/bank, without help, if a letter comes in the post, she reads it, and can go off on one, until I read it and explain its not what she thinks it is, DWP can be a nightmare, her pension came through, I am getting her to a pension advisor, no matter how many times I try to explain, its not helping, there is a lot of confusion, tinnitus, dizziness and what she calls a massive hangover.

    As such the DWP have me down as her appointee and contact, it's sort of weird, I had a TIA and 2 heart attacks and have major issues with my memory, so I have to rely on my partner to prompt me, (I can forget to pay for bills or things) she cant deal with paperwork/letters/appointments, we sort of muddle on, god knows what would happen should either of us end up alone.

    DWP accept she can't deal with "stuff" and I have to deal with her claim, but they say she is fine and cognitive and can understand complex written instruction's, drives me mad on one hand they admit she can't cope, but when asked they backstep and claim she is fine.
    I still believe its down to "luck of the draw" if you get a nice assessor your fine, go on the wrong day with the wrong person and kiss goodbye to your award.  
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    The first assessor was totally fine and acknowledged I have mental health problems, it's just bothering me because he's gone against what she has said and then dropped my points and made it about my physical health? I don't understand it at all. Plus there was a GP's letter that was sent to the first assessor and I'm sure this other assessor would have had access to it. I think trying to discredit someone and say they don't have mental health problems when they've been diagnosed by a professional is pretty bad really. He doesn't know what I'm like from day to day, I was struggling to explain to him but I was apparently speaking to him fine even though my Son was helping me *shrugs*.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    @poppy123456 I've just looked at the first page of my report, the part where they list what evidence they have etc. and actually the Welfare Rights officer did send the evidence that I gave to him! It seems like the assessor has ignore all of it, maybe because it was an homes assessment? Welfare Rights told my Son that they only had one letter on their system.. and Capita told my son they only had 2 letters.. obviously not. Is it possible that the DM will notice this and question it and ignore what the recent assessor has said?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    With only a 18% chance of the decision changing at MR stage i'd say most likely you'll be taking it to Tribunal. How many points were you awarded for daily living and mobility part?
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    8 in each, but when I was first awarded PIP I had I think 18 in each. Honestly, it's like he doesn't want to acknowledge my mental health problems despite there being evidence. 

    Just to clarify, I've not had the decision letter yet, that's why I was asking if the DM would maybe go against what the assessor has said in his report if it differs so much from the original assessment and due to the fact there has been evidence sent in. 

    I do have a query though, I read on here that assessors only get 15 minutes to check your evidence when you go to an actual centre and that they can only look at it when you are booked in, how would that work for an home assessment? There's no way he would have had time to check any medical evidence.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They mostly go with the report, it's very rare for them to go against it. As you only scored 8 in each part then that's 4 points short of Enhanced, which is a lot for them to go against. If it was just 1 point you may have had a chance. Of course, i hope for you that they do go against the report.

    I'm afraid i can't answer the other question.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Ok, thank you @poppy123456 for your help and support, I appreciate it :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    So really if you have a home assessment they don't have any time at all to read the evidence you've sent? He did seem to read the previous assessment report during the assessment but that's it. I guess having a home assessment can go against you in a way?

    Thanks ilovecats
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2019
    I did wonder how the HCP had read my daughters evidence before her home assessment when i first claimed PIP for her, now i know. Thanks @ilovecats
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    In all honesty when you read my report it comes across as him only reading the previous report, I really don't feel like going into it because the whole thing has made me feel a lot worse but I will say that I've been advised to make a complaint to the assessment company, oh and it's not about the money btw.

    Thanks for the info.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    To add to the above, I know that maybe nothing will come out of the complaint but I want to try anyway

    I asked Welfare Rights for a copy of my review form yesterday, I got a response saying they've passed it onto the officer and have included the manager? I just want to see what the previous officer said on the form (or didn't say), don't know why the manager needs to be included, also, shouldn't they show a copy of the from to the person they've filled it in for before sending it?

    Anyway, I'm going to wait for the decision, get help with an MR if I need to do one and I'll make sure it's done correctly.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    ilovecats said:

    This is true, they are only allowed to access your information once you have arrived at the assessment centre. They read the PIP or AR1 and the previous report and then try to read as much as they can dependant on amount and relevance. 
    The previous report? So if the report from last time is a load of rubbish and does not accept that the claimant has any entitlement to points they would start from that point onwards?
    Obviously if the assessor this time around accepts everything claimed and said the choice I suppose is that (a) they accept that the previous report was flawed or maybe (b) since the last report the claimant has deteriorated considerably?
    Presumably they would have no knowledge if the earlier decision was changed dramatically by a Tribunal?
     
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
     :#  I wish the ignore feature worked properly on this site.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    There is nothing in GDPR whatsoever to prevent a HCP from previewing claim packs etc. well in advance of assessment. Thus there is no GDPR breach when someone doing a home visit does exactly that. The process being described by @ilovecats is one devised by HCPs and providers and has nothing to do with the DPA or GDPR. It also breaches their own guidance and potentially the public law principle that you must use what you have and cannot ignore it.

    The assessment providers guidance says explicitly 

    “1.6.5 Before starting the consultation, the HP should read the claimant questionnaire and all other evidence on file. It is also recommended that the HPs could also consult with clinical coaches or other experts prior to the face-to-face assessment for advice and support on how conditions present and how this might affect function.”

    Bearing that in mind I wonder how a HCP would comply with that guidance if the law prevented them from even seeing evidence until you check into the venue? How might one read a claim pack and all supporting evidence; conclude that consultation with clinical coaches or other experts is needed and then do that before the face to face as per the guidance? 

    This is a publicly available document and can be found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process#face-to-face-consultation


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    I obviously have no idea about that sort of thing which is why I was asking in my thread, like I said though, it seems as though my evidence was ignored, plus I've also read on these forums that assessors "cherry pick" the evidence that they read again I have no idea, I don't work as an assessor but I do know that there were a lot of discrepancies in my report and when you compare it to the first report it's just mind boggling.

    I'm currently TRYING to get my review form so I can see what the Welfare Rights officer wrote on there, the officer made a comment when he came to see me which I thought was a little off because it didn't tally with the information I've seen on here in regards to form filling.

    Should a review form be treated exactly the same as a PIP2 form in regards to giving 2 - 3 examples?! From what I can gather, my review from doesn't have that sort of info on it, I was never asked for 2 - 3 examples.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes a review form should be classed as a new claimant when filling out the form. This is exactly what i did when i filled out my daughters form....i gave those 2-3 examples for each descriptor that applied. The new evidence i sent wasn't used. All they used was the previous assessment report, my review form and a phone call was made to someone on my contact list. She had a paper based assessment.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Grrrr thanks @poppy123456 not grrring at you btw.

    I wish I had someone like you to help fill my forms out lol.

    If you ask Fightback who do the forms properly it costs £45 and I've even see people say they've paid £75 for MR's, I know that Fightback know a lot about the laws surrounding benefits but I don't understand why they are charging these amounts to people who are sick/disabled and may have just had their benefits reduced or taken from them, it doesn't make sense to me. They told me it was a "fee" then went on about bank fee's etc. I wonder how much the "fee" is if they attend your tribunal with you.... 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No worries, i know you weren't. LOL it probably won't help even if i could fill them out for you because i don't know exactly how your conditions affect you.

    Over the years i always asked an agency to help with the forms but my knowledge over the years increased and since posting here i realised what i was doing wrong was asking agencies for help. People think that there's certain words you should use, even i thought this. There isn't and the best person to fill out your form is yourself. Why? because you are the only one that knows exactly how your conditions affect you. Just fill the form in exactly how your life is affected, then add those examples.

    I'm my daughters appointee so i had to "pretend" i was her, which i more difficult. I had to think really hard before answering those questions and it took me 5 weeks to fill out the form because i did a question at a time and used extra paper for all the other information. I know her inside out and have looked after her all her life so i know her exceptionally well obviously. I won't lie, it was stressful and it took me weeks to sort through all her evidence because i kept forgetting things lol. I have the worst short term memory and i'd put something to one side and forget where i'd put it lol. I did scream a few times :| My eldest daughter helped me in the end and she typed out the extra pages on her laptop and we printed them out.

    Asking an agency for help isn't always the best idea because there's no way you can sit there and tell them everything about your conditions in the space of an hour, so there's going to be things that are missed. I know this because i made this huge mistake myself in the past. If they spent hours and hours helping you then there won't be enough time to help the next person.

    I think you're still waiting for the decision right? If so then start writing the MR and try and do it yourself or even ask your son for help because i'm sure he knows you very well.

    As for fightback.... sorry but i'd never ever pay someone for help, no way. I certainly don't agree with people charging to help others.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    Thanks @poppy123456 I also have a friend that knows me pretty well who is also pretty good at wording things, so maybe if I did try and type out what you've suggested, I could then show it to her and my Son and my son could remind me of things and my friend could help me write it better. My problem is that I'm very bad at explaining, I end up waffling, my attention span and concentration are pretty bad, to the point where my Son reads all of my correspondence, I tend to reread posts like this just to make sure I've gotten the information right and will refer back to the post because I forget what's been said, I sometimes have problems understanding things as well, so my Son has to help with that also, I even started making errors with my finances so now I have to ask my Son for help with that.

    In all honesty, I feel really **** about the way I am, I have gone from a pretty independent person, I've pretty much brought my Son up on my own, I used to be pretty active and walk 8 miles a day, did all of the cleaning, shopping, cooking, finances etc and even DIY lol, now I'm pretty much dependant on both my Mum and Son. I have zero reason to lie about how I am affected and what this assessor has done in regards to his report has made me feel pretty low because it feels like he's trying to re-diagnose me and call me a liar in regards to my mental health, as I think I've stated somewhere else, there is enough stigma attached to mental health without these assessment companies and such adding to it (not just them GP's and other medical professionals too can make it pretty hard to seek help).

    I'm someone who has been pretty proactive in regards to my health, I've always tried what the GP's, psychiatrist etc have suggested. I don't want to be the way I am, I wanted to be a carer for disabled people, took an interest in it when I used to help someone with respite now and then but now I'm the one being cared for, as you can imagine it's pretty frustrating.

    Sorry for the waffle, but you seem like a pretty nice, kind, understanding person.

    I almost forgot to ask! IF I need to do an MR I know it's 2 - 3 examples again, but what would you suggest in the way of medical evidence/evidence? I've obviously sent the things I have now and I don't think there's much more I can sent tbh.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    In regards to Fightback, they would actually spend a lot longer speaking to you than Welfare Rights, the officer was here for around 20 minutes, only asked a few things, I mentioned the last form not having a lot of info on it and he tried to tell me that was ok, I do understand that they have to see a lot of people and can only do so much but if that is the case then maybe they need a better approach to how many people they help or something, it's not like we don't have a lot of advice centres in the county I live in because we do.

    I do agree that people shouldn't be charged for form filling and such.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    WF2k while I agree you should never "have" to pay for help, perhaps fightback might be a good choice, it depends on how much you stand to lose, I lost a Tribunal because I could not afford much need help, they missed a point of law, after I did some research and found they had not taken in account how my problems effected me, reading through court papers/cases, someone appealed to the Upper Tribunal and won, because they had failed to account for the disability.

    The rules are there, they rely on "us" not knowing our rights, and the exact definition and how to answer, you may see some advice, saying that something may not count, but in the fine details its different, that's why the DWP lost 2 cases recently and had to re-assess a large number of claimants. its hard finding someone to help with the right knowledge who is prepared to help. 

    In a review of the benefit system the MP Frank Field highlighted some issues, the DWP only used 2 rules for some descriptors when it was put in place they should use 4 (I think) many people were wrongly placed as able to perform based on the wrong standards. The whole system is not based on what help you need but on a political agenda of removing benefits, "make them work or starve" 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @madquasimodo Fightback are pretty thorough to be fair, they did my ESA50 and put a shed load of info down on the form after speaking to me and getting info from me via email, that was in 2017.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks for the kind words!

    Evidence, it seems like you already sent enough and sometimes less is more. One piece of evidence could contradict another, if you send lots. Besides that, sending 100's of pages isn't needed.

    I stand by what i say about fightback...thanks but no thanks, i refuse to pay someone for help but each to their own as they say.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    So you don't need to send evidence for an MR if they already have evidence? (Just making sure I'm reading what you are saying properly). 

    PS - I typed this out like 20 minutes or more ago and got distracted, that's how bad I am LOL.


  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    I can't comment on what luck others have had or how many times they have been able to successfully pass a F2F assessment, I can only relate to mine and my partners awards, I failed to be awarded anything PIP2, failed on MR, went to Tribunal Failed, found out later I should have gone to the Upper Tribunal as there errors in the Tribunal which should have been caught (my fault I was a green and naïve ) had a second claim and was awarded enough points, not what I should have got, but enough to help and I wouldn't appeal it further, I have got worse but know full well if I get the wrong person on the wrong day I will lose the lot. (based on my partners experience)

    My partner failed on PIP2, failed at MR even though the report stated she had no examination and the award was based on one being done and her passing fully fit, the Tribunal doctor knew what was wrong, she was offered full PIP (enhanced) and lower rate mobility as we sat down. She was asked if she would like to try for enhanced mobility, 15 mins of quick fire questions from only the doctor and she was given full mobility and more points in other descriptors.

    Just before her 65th birthday she had a review over 1 year before her award was due to run out (seems harsh, I checked she had 10 months of her award) the review was scored, descriptor by descriptor the same as her first claim, nothing from the court or tribunal was recorded (extra points in certain descriptors) her Neurologist wrote a report signing her off as no further improvement and nothing to be done, she won't get better, damage has been done and there's nothing they can do.

    Physio reports show  Dix-Hallpike test, and what her balance and function is, Caloric reflex test shows zero output on right side and nil on left (not zero just too low to help her balance) Disability analyst report lists  the ROM and states she could not use a mobility scooter due to her balance and ROM. As you can guess there is a few reports from hospitals and consultants.

    A nurse decided none of that matters, stated "she walked from the car to the centre" total loss from this £4000, loss of warm home discount, loss of car tax reduction, so all in a lot to lose.

    My partner is no better, she has not improved, doctor can do no more, she will never walk unaided or have any balance, yet the DWP feel she is fit and able, it seems the Tribunal decision has been wiped from her record, If I can get some help I will, there are always winners and losers, sadly we both fall into this second group.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    That's pretty bad really, I'm sorry that happened to your wife :(
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    Thanks but don't worry I am having her stuffed and put in the corner, its cheaper than a funeral.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    WF2k said:
    So you don't need to send evidence for an MR if they already have evidence? (Just making sure I'm reading what you are saying properly). 

    PS - I typed this out like 20 minutes or more ago and got distracted, that's how bad I am LOL.


    There's nothing stopping you sending more evidence, just make sure it doesn't contradict what you've already sent. I still go by the "less is more option"

    As i advised most MR decisions remain the same anyway so you'll most likely be going to Tribunal. Sorry if that sounds harsh and i don't mean anything by it but i just don't want you to get your hopes up.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    Okie dokie, thank you :) Yeah I know, it's just something you have to go through to get to the tribunal  :#

    I thought Amber Rudd was meant to be having someone look into the amount MR failures there are in comparison to the amount of tribunals successes.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    ilovecats said:
    twonker said:
    ilovecats said:

    This is true, they are only allowed to access your information once you have arrived at the assessment centre. They read the PIP or AR1 and the previous report and then try to read as much as they can dependant on amount and relevance. 
    The previous report? So if the report from last time is a load of rubbish and does not accept that the claimant has any entitlement to points they would start from that point onwards?
    Obviously if the assessor this time around accepts everything claimed and said the choice I suppose is that (a) they accept that the previous report was flawed or maybe (b) since the last report the claimant has deteriorated considerably?
    Presumably they would have no knowledge if the earlier decision was changed dramatically by a Tribunal?
     
    You’ve asked me this before and I have already answered it.
    I have not! Please provide a link to the relevant post
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    There is nothing in GDPR whatsoever to prevent a HCP from previewing claim packs etc. well in advance of assessment. Thus there is no GDPR breach when someone doing a home visit does exactly that. The process being described by @ilovecats is one devised by HCPs and providers and has nothing to do with the DPA or GDPR. It also breaches their own guidance and potentially the public law principle that you must use what you have and cannot ignore it.

    The assessment providers guidance says explicitly 

    “1.6.5 Before starting the consultation, the HP should read the claimant questionnaire and all other evidence on file. It is also recommended that the HPs could also consult with clinical coaches or other experts prior to the face-to-face assessment for advice and support on how conditions present and how this might affect function.”

    Bearing that in mind I wonder how a HCP would comply with that guidance if the law prevented them from even seeing evidence until you check into the venue? How might one read a claim pack and all supporting evidence; conclude that consultation with clinical coaches or other experts is needed and then do that before the face to face as per the guidance? 

    This is a publicly available document and can be found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process#face-to-face-consultation



    Having read that document, How is a claimant supposed to force the issue at the assessment to ensure that the HCP has complied? 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    cristobal said:
    @WF2K - I'm not a benefit adviser, just a claimant like yourself, but that doesn't sound correct to me...if I've read it correctly they're saying "Put this in, and if you're not successful then we'll send supporting evidence" Maybe I've misunderstood?

    Fortunately there's lots of advice on here about the way forward although, as far as I can see, probably best not to bank on anything changing at MR!

    Good luck anyway...
    That was how it was being advised in the past - I was told the same back in 2014. To always keep a 'juicy' bit of evidence back just in case you had to go to a Tribunal.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    WF2k said:
    Okie dokie, thank you :) Yeah I know, it's just something you have to go through to get to the tribunal  :#

    I thought Amber Rudd was meant to be having someone look into the amount MR failures there are in comparison to the amount of tribunals successes.


    She will soon be out of a job. She makes so many promises that I have not as yet been able to find one that she has kept.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited May 2019
    So I got a copy of my review form and well, lets just say it doesn't have 2 - 3 examples on there, so I've contacted the Welfare Rights officer that I have now about it and explained what sites like this advise. I understand that they have limited time but this form has very limited information on it and doesn't state anything other than she still has this and still needs prompting, or she still needs help with this and uses aids etc.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    WF2k said:
    So I got a copy of my review form and well, lets just say it doesn't have 2 - 3 examples on there, so I've contacted the Welfare Rights officer that I have now about it and explained what sites like this advise. I understand that they have limited time but this form has very limited information on it and doesn't state anything other than she still has this and still needs prompting, or she still needs help with this and uses aids etc.
    Like assessors there are good and bad welfare rights organisations.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Chobbly said:
    @poppy123456

    Hi

    Could you explain enhanced premium please?

    Ive read some info on it, but dont fully understand.

    I received Enhanced on PIP and receive UC single mans over 25 and am on LCWRA.


    Hi,

    I answered your question on the other threads and this was my reply.



    As you're claiming UC then the premiums don't exist for this unfortunately. The disability premiums are only paid on the old legacy benefits such as Income Related ESA/JSA and Income Support.

    The LCWRA on top of the standard allowance for over 25's is  actually more than ESA with the Enhanced disability premium, if worked out correctly as a monthly payment.

    UC are part of DWP so they should already know you're claiming PIP. However, a PIP award doesn't automatically entitle you to more UC unless you're under 35 and claiming the housing element.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
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