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PIP Assessor help please

mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
Sorry to keep posting, as you all know I got declined PIP because of the lying assessor, done MR still nothing got the Tribunal letters through today response from PIP and I was just wondering if I made a new claim for PIP ( as the DWP case manager told me to ) Will I have chances of seeing the same assessor? That’s something I do not want to do. Didn’t know if there was a policy or not allowing same assessor twice? 

Also has anyone else done this? Drop a claim and make a new one if so what was the outcome. Thanks

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    That's not something you should do without first getting some expert advice. Starting a new claim using the same evidence you previously used will very likely see another refusal. Taking it to Tribunal is your best answer here.

    If you start another claim while waiting for the Tribunal any new decision will overrule the Tribunal decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello the chances of having the same asscesor is very slim, as for reapplying for PIP using the same evidence is pointless and you will most likely get the same award, as your taking you appeal to tribunal stopping this may could be a foolish thing to do, or cancel tribunal and apply for PIP using better supportive evidence. Others will comment on your questions but you may have to accept that you don't meet the criteria for claiming PIP in your present health condition. 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    That's not something you should do without first getting some expert advice. Starting a new claim using the same evidence you previously used will very likely see another refusal. Taking it to Tribunal is your best answer here.

    If you start another claim while waiting for the Tribunal any new decision will overrule the Tribunal decision.
    Yes but also if I get declined again I can just carry on with the first Tribunal I just rang them they told me this & my evidence of having autism is no we’re  in the appeal papers so they’ve not acknowledged that. Both DWP and ATOS told me to reapply under worsening condition. I got both letters today 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    wilko said:
    Hello the chances of having the same asscesor is very slim, as for reapplying for PIP using the same evidence is pointless and you will most likely get the same award, as your taking you appeal to tribunal stopping this may could be a foolish thing to do, or cancel tribunal and apply for PIP using better supportive evidence. Others will comment on your questions but you may have to accept that you don't meet the criteria for claiming PIP in your present health condition. 
    I’ve got evidence they haven’t yet seen. And my doctor & psychologist agreed that I’m entitled to PIP he said he’ll support me along the way but I haven’t asked for help from them as a letter is to long to wait up to 3 months & you don’t stop Tribunal they just told me you can make a new claim and appeal as your appealing the OLD decision 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Then send the evidence to the Tribunal. A GP and psychologist would know very little about the PIP descriptors and what they mean. Tribunal waiting times are huge across most of the country so waiting 3 months for a letter won't be an issue.

    If you start a new claim then any decision made from that will overrule the Tribunal decision. You could still be waiting 5+ months for a decision if you started a new claim. Then if that's refused and it could be because you've recently been refused then you'll have to request the MR for that decision and the process starts all over again.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    Then send the evidence to the Tribunal. A GP and psychologist would know very little about the PIP descriptors and what they mean. Tribunal waiting times are huge across most of the country so waiting 3 months for a letter won't be an issue.

    If you start a new claim then any decision made from that will overrule the Tribunal decision. You could still be waiting 5+ months for a decision if you started a new claim. Then if that's refused and it could be because you've recently been refused then you'll have to request the MR for that decision and the process starts all over again.
    I asked him that he said the way around it would be if I get declined go to MR then leave it and proceed with the first Tribunal as that still stays in place I’m sure he knows what he’s on about as He works in the DWP & my GP and psychologist is very much up to date with the descriptors because I showed them? And as for the long wait I was accessed within dead on 4 weeks of returning my form last time and that was only a few months back 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @mercedesbd - two people have advised you not to re-apply but it seems you prefer the advice of the DWP & your GP...

    You must make your own decision - but personally I wouldn't want advice from my GP (she's a very good doctor but not so good as a benefits adviser)

    Good luck, whatever you decide..
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes you can still proceed with the existing Tribunal BUT like i advised the new decision will overrule the Tribunal decision. If the Tribunal ruled in your favour then you wouldn't receive all the backdated money,  you will only receive backdated money up until the date of the decision on the new claim.

    You really do need to get expert face to face advice from an agency near you, not from your doctor or psychologist because they are not experts for benefit claims. This link will tell you what's local to you for that advice. https://advicelocal.uk/


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    cristobal said:
    @mercedesbd - two people have advised you not to re-apply but it seems you prefer the advice of the DWP & your GP...

    You must make your own decision - but personally I wouldn't want advice from my GP (she's a very good doctor but not so good as a benefits adviser)

    Good luck, whatever you decide..
    Yes you can still proceed with the existing Tribunal BUT like i advised the new decision will overrule the Tribunal decision. If the Tribunal ruled in your favour then you wouldn't receive all the backdated money,  you will only receive backdated money up until the date of the decision on the new claim.

    You really do need to get expert face to face advice from an agency near you, not from your doctor or psychologist because they are not experts for benefit claims. This link will tell you what's local to you for that advice. https://advicelocal.uk/


    My GP nor psychologist have told me to reapply they told me from the start to apply and that I’m eligible under certain descriptors .. it’s my decision to re apply 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @merecedesbd - I agree with poppy...you should find some face to face advice from a benefits adviser not your GP. GP's aren't trained as far as I know...

    Good luck anyway...hope things turn out well..
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    edited June 2019
    Doctors and psychologists don't know much about PIP. 

    My GP refused to write me a letter because "pip always contact me". Poppy and others here will repeat time and time again that they do not always contact your professionals and you shouldn't expect them to.

    In the end, they never did contact my GP despite multiple requests from myself to so, so poppy and others were spot on and my GP was wrong. 

    Listen to poppy and stick with tribunal only and send your evidence to tribunal, list where you should have gotten points, why, and give a few examples of the struggles you faced the last time you attempted to do it.  if you're entitled to PIP they will correct it. Reapplying and expecting different results from the same people is silly

  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    Doctors and psychologists don't know much about PIP. 

    My GP refused to write me a letter because "pip always contact me". Poppy and others here will repeat time and time again that they do not always contact your professionals and you shouldn't expect them to.

    In the end, they never did contact my GP despite multiple requests from myself to so, so poppy and others were spot on and my GP was wrong. 

    Listen to poppy and stick with tribunal only and send your evidence to tribunal, list where you should have gotten points, why, and give a few examples of the struggles you faced the last time you attempted to do it.  if you're entitled to PIP they will correct it. Reapplying and expecting different results from the same people is silly

    I don’t no why everyone’s jumping on the bandwagon and repeating the same sh*t because it wasn’t me who come I put with this idea it was the DWP case manager Laura. And no one has said that they’ll write to my GP? I know I have to request this and my GP does provide letters without them writing first.. maybe you have **** doctors. I know for a fact I am entitled to PIP I need help getting in and out of a shower last 2 times I  done this I slipped the last time I done this I slipped n bruised all my face. I need help getting dressed lower part because last time I done this I fell . I need help communicating with people as I get stuck on what to say I psychically can’t express my words face to face. I don’t know how to cook a meal I’ve tried to learn but I can’t I use microwave to eat. I need help on the toilet where my bowels are incontinent and we’re I’m in either so much pain or feel so weak I can’t do this by myself
    i do not leave the house alone at all ever. I always have to have someone with me because of panic attacks i.e if there was a disruption on the way itd cause me severe anxiety last time I done this the train got stuck for an hour in a dark tunnel with no service due to power shortage I physically can’t comprehend what happened. And moving around I can’t walk no more then 50 metres unaided where I’m in so much pain the bridges of my feet kill . My hips pop in and out my knees are very painful and my spine is in a lot of pain when I feel really weak i can’t walk atal 

    the problems isnt being enitlted to it it’s the unprofessional assessors lying about people she said there was no cognitive or social impairment when autism is ? No health condition when I have a load 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @mercedesbd -  if you're referring to me then I was genuinely trying to help.

    The reason, I imagine, that people are "repeating the same old **** " is because you asked their opinion. 

    As with any advice it's for you to decide whether to take it but I don't believe that being dismissive of other's opinion takes anyone anywhere... 

    You do what you think best....
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    cristobal said:
    @mercedesbd -  if you're referring to me then I was genuinely trying to help.

    The reason, I imagine, that people are "repeating the same old **** " is because you asked their opinion. 

    As with any advice it's for you to decide whether to take it but I don't believe that being dismissive of other's opinion takes anyone anywhere... 

    You do what you think best....
    Your all repeating yourself like I’m stupid and commiting a crime it wasn’t my idea I know the tricks of the trade and I know how DWP work I ain’t no professional but when the professional DM is telling you to reaply I’m sure your gunna rethink .. it’s either that or wait a year for Tribunal witch I don’t want to do and you keep on about my GP no ones bothered about the GP input in more bothered about the fact I’ve been told to reapply by DM and ATOS? Surely you would seek help
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    And I didn’t mean you I meant the ‘ reapply and expecting different results from the same people is silly ‘ well obviously it sounds like a stupid move but I got told to do this 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A DWP decision maker will almost always tell you to re-apply because they don't want you to take it to a Tribunal. Don't fall for that trap. This is like the same advice hundreds of other people were given when they were found fit for work for ESA " you need to claim UC advises the decision maker" so they claim UC not fully realising that they could possibly be so much worse off by doing what the decision maker advised them to do.

    Re-apply isn't always the answer and those that do re-apply may find their self in the same position they were previously in....with a refusal so the whole process starts all over again. The answer is always take it to Tribunal because at a Tribunal there's more of a chance you will have a decision in your favour and even more of a chance if you have representation.

     What you decide to do is your choice no one else's but please remember that you did ask for advice here, which you've been given.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    edited June 2019
    Doctors and psychologists don't know much about PIP. 

    My GP refused to write me a letter because "pip always contact me". Poppy and others here will repeat time and time again that they do not always contact your professionals and you shouldn't expect them to.

    In the end, they never did contact my GP despite multiple requests from myself to so, so poppy and others were spot on and my GP was wrong. 

    Listen to poppy and stick with tribunal only and send your evidence to tribunal, list where you should have gotten points, why, and give a few examples of the struggles you faced the last time you attempted to do it.  if you're entitled to PIP they will correct it. Reapplying and expecting different results from the same people is silly

    I don’t no why everyone’s jumping on the bandwagon and repeating the same sh*t because it wasn’t me who come I put with this idea it was the DWP case manager Laura. And no one has said that they’ll write to my GP? I know I have to request this and my GP does provide letters without them writing first.. maybe you have **** doctors. I know for a fact I am entitled to PIP I need help getting in and out of a shower last 2 times I  done this I slipped the last time I done this I slipped n bruised all my face. I need help getting dressed lower part because last time I done this I fell . I need help communicating with people as I get stuck on what to say I psychically can’t express my words face to face. I don’t know how to cook a meal I’ve tried to learn but I can’t I use microwave to eat. I need help on the toilet where my bowels are incontinent and we’re I’m in either so much pain or feel so weak I can’t do this by myself
    i do not leave the house alone at all ever. I always have to have someone with me because of panic attacks i.e if there was a disruption on the way itd cause me severe anxiety last time I done this the train got stuck for an hour in a dark tunnel with no service due to power shortage I physically can’t comprehend what happened. And moving around I can’t walk no more then 50 metres unaided where I’m in so much pain the bridges of my feet kill . My hips pop in and out my knees are very painful and my spine is in a lot of pain when I feel really weak i can’t walk atal 

    the problems isnt being enitlted to it it’s the unprofessional assessors lying about people she said there was no cognitive or social impairment when autism is ? No health condition when I have a load 
    DWP will tell you to reapply because you'll probably win at tribunal and they won't have to pay as much, or at all to you. It's like the owner of ASDA telling you to shop at ASDA over Tescos.

    I scored 0 points at assesment
    0 points at MR
    Went to Tribunal and scored 22 points combined, many for the descriptors you mentioned.

    DWP will generally side with the assessor which as you said lied about your condition, why would you side with them again? Go around them and do tribunal who will listen to your problems and be truthful in their findings (in my experience). The numbers are something like 75% of appeals win at tribunal.

    Like yourself I have communication problems massively which was present during my assessment and present every day in life and causes me huge amounts of stress. I scored 0 at assessment (Supposedly communicated fine etc, ), 0 at MR, went to Tribunal and scored 4 points for communicating. The DWP also advised me to re apply also, but I went to Tribunal and won my PIP award.

    In my experience the PIP Assessments don't treat mental health fairly and don't put much emphasis on it. When I went for mine there was a huge focus on my physical problems, when my main problem is actually my mental health. Judging by your final paragraph the same was probably true for you aswell. Go to Tribunal and going off what you have written here I can almost guarantee you will win it also.

    You keep mentioning how the Assessor lies yet you're also fixated on going through the process again only to see yet another Assessor who may yet again lie.  There is no sense or logic in that. At tribunal you will see an independent panel who will actually care about your problems and award you correctly.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    @Pipquestions2 @ilovecats @cristobal @poppy123456 sorry for swearing didn’t take my meds. I actually understand what you’s are saying now. I’m just gunna sit it out and go Tribunal .. I didn’t know they told everyone to re apply so they short the backpay. Thanks for ur help and making me understand
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,923

    Scope community team

    Good morning @mercedesbd. I hope you're feeling a little better? It's a really stressful situation which I'm sure we can all relate to, but it is important to be mindful of your language.

    Of course you are able to reapply if you wish, but what I think everyone was trying to explain was; if you reapply and you get awarded, great. Your award will start from that date and this past application will be irrelevant. 
    If you reapply and don't get awarded, even if you continue with this first tribunal and win that, you'll only get awarded up until the date you reapplied and then your claim would end and you would be without PIP again. You would need to do a second MR and potentially another tribunal for the new claim too. 

    I hope that helps and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. :)

    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • babyjack1babyjack1 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Sorry to keep posting, as you all know I got declined PIP because of the lying assessor, done MR still nothing got the Tribunal letters through today response from PIP and I was just wondering if I made a new claim for PIP ( as the DWP case manager told me to ) Will I have chances of seeing the same assessor? That’s something I do not want to do. Didn’t know if there was a policy or not allowing same assessor twice? 

    Also has anyone else done this? Drop a claim and make a new one if so what was the outcome. Thanks
    hi i was advised that if my husband was to put in a new claim .he can still go ahead with the appeal .someone might be able to confirm this good luck what ever you decide to do 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    babyjack1 said:

    hi i was advised that if my husband was to put in a new claim .he can still go ahead with the appeal .someone might be able to confirm this good luck what ever you decide to do 
    Hi,

    Yes, that's correct but as has already been advised here, if you start a new claim any decision made on that will overrule the Tribunal decision. If the Tribunal wen in your favour you will only receive backdated money up until the date you started your new claim.

    Starting a new claim when you've just been refused isn't the answer.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @Pipquestions2 The same thing has happened to me recently, I was awarded PIP mainly based on my mental health with 8 points for moving around in 2014 (enhanced for both), it was acknowledged that I have mental health problems and struggle with them often, the assessor understood that me getting better would be a long process because I no longer receive treatment as none of it worked, recommended my award being looked at in 5 years. fast forward to April 2019, I had a review assessment, nothing has changed apart from me being diagnosed with FM, the assessor I had seems to have twisted it so it's now about my physical health, has dropped me from 18 points in each to 8 points in each, he has contradicted himself and there are a lot of discrepancies in the report, if the DM goes with his report I will be over £300 down pm but honestly, it's more about the fact that he's trying to say I don't have MH problems when there is evidence, he even said there was nothing in the HOC but when you look at the HOC it states what I have and the fact I've been diagnosed by a psychiatrist.. so really he's pretty much calling me, my Son (who helped me explain things to the assessor), the previous assessor, my previous GP and a psychiatrist, liars which is what's really annoyed me the most. 

    @mercedesbd sorry it seems to be stressing you out, if you need to talk feel free to pm me, keep fighting though, don't let them grind you down. I know it's easier said than done, I've not been well since I read my report, I'm still waiting for the decision letter.
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    edited June 2019
    WF2k said:
    @Pipquestions2 The same thing has happened to me recently, I was awarded PIP mainly based on my mental health with 8 points for moving around in 2014 (enhanced for both), it was acknowledged that I have mental health problems and struggle with them often, the assessor understood that me getting better would be a long process because I no longer receive treatment as none of it worked, recommended my award being looked at in 5 years. fast forward to April 2019, I had a review assessment, nothing has changed apart from me being diagnosed with FM, the assessor I had seems to have twisted it so it's now about my physical health, has dropped me from 18 points in each to 8 points in each, he has contradicted himself and there are a lot of discrepancies in the report, if the DM goes with his report I will be over £300 down pm but honestly, it's more about the fact that he's trying to say I don't have MH problems when there is evidence, he even said there was nothing in the HOC but when you look at the HOC it states what I have and the fact I've been diagnosed by a psychiatrist.. so really he's pretty much calling me, my Son (who helped me explain things to the assessor), the previous assessor, my previous GP and a psychiatrist, liars which is what's really annoyed me the most. 

    @mercedesbd sorry it seems to be stressing you out, if you need to talk feel free to pm me, keep fighting though, don't let them grind you down. I know it's easier said than done, I've not been well since I read my report, I'm still waiting for the decision letter.
    They will correct it at tribunal don't worry 

    My assessor, I guess, didn't so much as lie, but was more twisting the facts to be focused on my physical problems . His report repeated statements like "the claimant has trouble with x, but there are no physical restrictions. 0 points" many times despite never claiming my problems were physical. 

    It's something I've noticed a lot from reading this forum - people with physical problems tend to have an easier time with it whereas if your problems are mental there's a high chance you have to go to tribunal 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Yeah, it's not fair though, it makes our mental health worse. 

    I forgot to say that the assessment was actually recorded with permission from Capita, people think it deters them from making "discrepancies" but it obviously doesn't. 
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    babyjack1 said:
    Sorry to keep posting, as you all know I got declined PIP because of the lying assessor, done MR still nothing got the Tribunal letters through today response from PIP and I was just wondering if I made a new claim for PIP ( as the DWP case manager told me to ) Will I have chances of seeing the same assessor? That’s something I do not want to do. Didn’t know if there was a policy or not allowing same assessor twice? 

    Also has anyone else done this? Drop a claim and make a new one if so what was the outcome. Thanks
    hi i was advised that if my husband was to put in a new claim .he can still go ahead with the appeal .someone might be able to confirm this good luck what ever you decide to do 
    Where are you based? As times are long for appeal
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    WF2k said:
    @Pipquestions2 The same thing has happened to me recently, I was awarded PIP mainly based on my mental health with 8 points for moving around in 2014 (enhanced for both), it was acknowledged that I have mental health problems and struggle with them often, the assessor understood that me getting better would be a long process because I no longer receive treatment as none of it worked, recommended my award being looked at in 5 years. fast forward to April 2019, I had a review assessment, nothing has changed apart from me being diagnosed with FM, the assessor I had seems to have twisted it so it's now about my physical health, has dropped me from 18 points in each to 8 points in each, he has contradicted himself and there are a lot of discrepancies in the report, if the DM goes with his report I will be over £300 down pm but honestly, it's more about the fact that he's trying to say I don't have MH problems when there is evidence, he even said there was nothing in the HOC but when you look at the HOC it states what I have and the fact I've been diagnosed by a psychiatrist.. so really he's pretty much calling me, my Son (who helped me explain things to the assessor), the previous assessor, my previous GP and a psychiatrist, liars which is what's really annoyed me the most. 

    @mercedesbd sorry it seems to be stressing you out, if you need to talk feel free to pm me, keep fighting though, don't let them grind you down. I know it's easier said than done, I've not been well since I read my report, I'm still waiting for the decision letter.
    Have you still not got a reply?? That’s disgusting I’ve got my MR notice and appeal notice and you still haven’t got a reply.  Well what they say no new is good news maybe there not taking on the HCP report and making there own conclusions
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @mercedesbd Yeap, still waiting! 9 weeks on Thursday.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,923

    Scope community team

    Sorry you're still waiting @WF2k! Hopefully it won't be too much longer. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited June 2019
    @Adrian_Scope thanks.

    I've JUST received another letter, same as the one before saying they've now gotten all of my information, they sent one at the beginning of May.. is that normal for them two send two of the same letter? I wonder if I'll be waiting longer lol.
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    WF2k said:
    @Adrian_Scope thanks.

    I've JUST received another letter, same as the one before saying they've now gotten all of my information, they sent one at the beginning of May.. is that normal for them two send two of the same letter? I wonder if I'll be waiting longer lol.
    Maybe they sent the report back for audit? Better for you 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Who knows, it's triggered my anxiety, I worry about everything though.
  • drewdundeedrewdundee Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    edited June 2019
    Good luck WF2k hopefully it won’t be long for you. 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,923

    Scope community team

    Hi @WF2k. I'd purely be speculating if I gave any opinion on why this might be. These letters are usually automated though so don't worry too much (easier said than done, I know!)
    I really hope you hear something soon, the waiting is really difficult. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Thank you @drewdundee and @Adrian_Scope

    It looks like my award will be dropped to standard with a lot of people saying they go with the assessors report, but I still worry that I won't get anything, I then need to decide if I want to risk doing an MR if I am awarded standard or not and see what Welfare Rights advise, they are going to get a complaint either way, regardless if they take it seriously or not (they being Capita).
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