Prinzmetal variant angina caused by breathing in cold air. More than 28 days abroad?

clasship

Thanks for the advice, I will take it and do what you suggest. 

cristobal

@clasship - Does this help? It relates to DLA not PIP I know.

It might not take things forward too much but hopefully it’s a starting point as to where to look....

“medical treatment” means medical, surgical or rehabilitative treatment (including any course or diet or regimen), and references to a person receiving or submitting to medical treatment are to be construed accordingly.”; 

The Social Security (Disability Living Allowance, Attendance Allowance and Carer’s Allowance) (Amendment) Regulations 2013

clasship

Thanks,

I am not sure what to make of this. I know NHS incubators for babies use warm air, and my argument is the only difference is I'll be getting free warm air treatment, and free treatment is still treatment. I'll be relying on ATOS / DWP showing common decency and common sense, what can possibly go wrong?

cristobal

@clasship - I think the issue is 'treatment' whether it's free or otherwise...

If you look up 'treatment', 'regimen' etc in the dictionary they all seem to involve someone doing something, and that might be the problem. I can see that the baby in the incubator is being 'treated' but wouldn't personally describe your case as 'treatment' as it's a more passive thing. 

Have any of your medical team said that you need to move abroad? That might help...

(apologies about my question about returning to the UK - I see now that you'd previously answered it!)

clasship

Yes three  GP's have written letters to the airlines explaining my PVA was better served in temperatures abroad because I suffered PVA from cold air. Two GP's wrote letters when BA would not fly me after I held my breath getting from the taxi into the terminal, but the air was too cold inside by the doors and I had a PVA attack. two hours later in the corridor (which of course was full of cold air which caused another attack) to the aircraft I got right up to the aircraft door sitting in a wheelchair, and the captain came out and told me to come back the following day with a letter from my GP stating I was fit to fly, which I did. I need a legal mind to state my case, that's for sure, I have all the written evidence, that's also for sure.

The stupid thing is, allowing me longer abroad won't cost the DWP anything more, but I am learning the DWP say no, now what's the question. Don't get me started on them allegedly earning 300 quid for every applicant they turn down, talk about 30 pieces of silver. 

kentpete123

Does your condition effect you while your abroad 

clasship

I have never, ever suffered PVA in a country with a climate +15c. 

kentpete123

Ok so playing devil's advocate if you are away for 26 weeks and then back here for the summer could the dwp not argue that your condition effects you less than 50% of the time in a 12 month period and lower or stop your claim?

cristobal

kentpete123 said:

Ok so playing devil's advocate if you are away for 26 weeks and then back here for the summer could the dwp not argue that your condition effects you less than 50% of the time in a 12 month period and lower or stop your claim?

@ kentpete123 - I'd never thought about that...

The choice seems to be - Live in UK, be ill, and claim benefit or live/spend a lot of time abroad, be well and as a consequence you can't claim benefit.

@clasship - please let us know what happens..

kentpete123

I can see them looking at it that way unfortunately

atlas46

Hi @clasship

Take a look at the DoH report The Expert Patient - A New Approach to Chronic Disease Management for the 21st Century - published in August, 2001.

You are an Expert Patient, I said a great deal about myself as an Expert Patient, in response to Q5 on the PIP claim form.

I will post what I filled in (via a Word document) on the form, tomorrow.

I need to set up a keyboard to do this, as I current post on here, using a mini IPad and one finger typing.

Also there was a case of someone going abroad for health reasons and still got ESA., for support from their family.

There is no defined definition of what constitutes as “medical treatment”, for claimants of ESA, whilst abroad.

Have a good read of the above report, so you can see where I am coming from.

The DWP likes to lay down tram tracks for claimants to follow, but said claimants can and should devise their own flight & route plans, as these better meets the claimants needs.

clasship

In my application for PIP I submitted a temperature graph as below that clearly shows that the average temperature is too cold for me 8 months of the year. I had one event witnessed by my warden on 10 JUNE 2019 when it was +12c. There will be days in the 8 months when it is sometimes +15c  however there are days in summer when its not, so I think my 8 months a year (66% of the year) is a fair estimate. I also suffer from the damage of 19 heart attacks, 2 x by-passes failed, my big stroke and really bad back, so living abroad won't be spent windsurfing. I;'ll do as I do here, sleep a lot in the day but when I have the energy to go out, not have to take my hair dryer and battery to breathe from. As bunnies go, I am not a well one. 

clasship

atlas46 I look forward to reading your word document, and thank you for your efforts and everyone's efforts. 

clasship

I should add that one GP confirmed there are no PORTABLE medical devices that supply dehumidified warm air available to the public. He stated my battery powered hair dryer was not suitable not least because the air is not dehumidified. My research tells me there is a device that USA mountain rescuers use, but it's very complicated and not available to the public. So I can't be given any portable device to allow me to go outside. However it's evidence warm air is a treatment, just as incubators are. This is where I need legal advice, I may need to argue a legal case, you would hope not, but I am dealing with ATOS and DWP. 

That leaves the obvious only option, spend at least 8 months a year somewhere with tropical temperatures. That's exactly what I did for 14 years at no cost to the taxpayer, until I ran out of funds in july 2017. Once again staying abroad for up to 26 weeks is at no extra cost to the DWP, you would think this should be a no brainer.  

Perhaps I should just consider myself fortunate if I survive the waterboarding and rat in a cage strapped to my face. 

cristobal

@clasship - personally I'd wait and see what happens with your claim.

If you're successful, and the benefit stops when you leave the country, that's the time to spend good money on a lawyer....

clasship

atlas46 I look forward to your word doc when it's convenient for you. 

clasship

Is the 12 week rule 12 weeks in anyone year, or could I go for two 12 weeks trips covering winter? 

clasship

Can I insist I read what the ATOS / IAS assessor has just written at the assessment? If yes, can anyone supply me with the rules / regulations I can quote to the assessor. 

cristobal

@clasship - no you can't.

If you want to you can record the assessment. Rules here:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process

clasship

Thank you, actually I ordered two tape recorders and they arrived today. I was hoping I could read what was being written at the time to save MR and an appeal. Call me a cynic, but I am so shocked to read how some assessors are so economical with the truth of what actually happened at the assessment.