Insurance on motability

babscat

Hi everyone,
I have been awarded ongoing enhanced mobility for PIP, so I’m looking at getting a car through the motability scheme.
The problem is this: my husband is my carer and works part-time on a self employed basis as a photographer. He only goes out on a photo shoot once or twice a month, maximum, as the majority of his work is at home on the computer. He works about 12 hours a week all together, 
I used to drive but due to health problems I haven’t driven for over three years, so my husband will be the main driver. 
Do you think they will be happy for him to drive the car to photo sessions? If not he’ll have to consider doing something else.
thank you.

Government_needs_reform

@bobcat
The disability car is for the disabled person only. So your husband cannot use it for work or Business. But he can be registered as the main driver and take you anywhere you need to get too.

Well done on your ongoing award btw.

CockneyRebel

A motability car can only be used for the benefit of the claimant, but you do not have to be in the car. For example your husband could legitimately use the car to pick up your medication but not to go to the pub

Government_needs_reform

@bobcat
This will help you understand futher.

Misuse would include:

• Not giving the disabled person the benefit of the car
• Driving whilst uninsured or banned
• Using the car in a criminal act
• Lending, sub-leasing or selling the car
• Using the car for unauthorised business purposes, for example, as a taxi or delivery vehicle
• Not taking proper care of your car

See this for full Motability regs. https://www.motability.co.uk/about-the-scheme/how-your-car-can-be-used/

babscat

Thank you Government_needs_reform for your swift reply.
We did think that might be the case.
I had been on indef DLA and then transferred to PIP. First assessment was a nightmare and only given two years award, with a review after 10 months, so to get ongoing, until ‘at least 2029’ was a massive relief!! 

babscat

Thank you CockneyRebel,
Thankfully my husband never goes to the pub! Lol. 

April2018mom

A Motability car is for your benefit only. For example your husband could take the car to pick up your medication without you. He can not however decide to take the car to go food shopping without you or drive to a pub alone. Hope this helps you understand what the rules are. 

Government_needs_reform

@bobscat your welcome glad to help. At least now you can relax now having your ongoing award👍

I also get ongoing PIP and I bought a 4 year old car with less the 20.000 miles on the clock. I was on Motability but to have the car from them really was not worth keeping as I was not using it much.

That may be a way to go if you can afford to do it that way or you only do low milage.

My insurance is only £220 a year. Oh zero tax also.

babscat

April2018mom,
That sounds crazy to me! My husband invariably has to go food shopping without me as I am too ill to leave the house - if he didn’t we would starve! 
I think I’d better give Motability a call on Monday. If those really are the rules it would be useless for us and for many other disabled people too.

poppy123456

The mobility car can be used to go food shopping because this will benefit yourself too.

babscat

Government_needs_reform,
unfortunately, as my husband is my carer, and can therefore only earn a very limited amount, we don’t have the money to be able to buy a car. We’ve been leasing a car, but that started when my husband was still working, before my health deteriorated even further. We’ve now found ourselves in catch 22. I don’t think any companies would lend us money for a car, but we need one as I can’t walk more than a few feet. Worse case will be that he’ll have to give up the photo work and we’ll have to tighten our belts even more! 

Government_needs_reform

@bobscat Sorry to here this, it's hard trying to balance the books so to speak. Maybe just pick up one for a few quid for now and save your mobility money, that's how I done it.

 Also added below here is for a few people confused by the usage of the vehicle.. From the Motability site. We’ll ask you to make sure: The car is used by, or for the benefit of, the disabled person.

This does not mean that the disabled person needs to be in the car for every journey. In practice, this means other named drivers in the household can use the car for shopping and other routine activities, as long as the disabled customer will benefit Only drivers approved by RSA's standard insurance underwriting criteria and listed on your Certificate of Motor Insurance can drive the car*

KG100

Would it be possible for you to go with him on his photo shoot ?
Might not be a problem then.

poppy123456

babscat said:

Government_needs_reform,
unfortunately, as my husband is my carer, and can therefore only earn a very limited amount, we don’t have the money to be able to buy a car. We’ve been leasing a car, but that started when my husband was still working, before my health deteriorated even further. We’ve now found ourselves in catch 22. I don’t think any companies would lend us money for a car, but we need one as I can’t walk more than a few feet. Worse case will be that he’ll have to give up the photo work and we’ll have to tighten our belts even more! 

As you're already leasing a car then you will need to speak to the finance company first because there could be penalties if you end the lease agreement early. It maybe worth you continuing with this lease until the end and then think about a mobility car later.

babscat

poppy123456 Our private lease finishes this November, so we won’t be ending the agreement  early. 

babscat

KG100 unfortunately I am generally not very well so it would be unlikely I’d be able to go. The photo shoots are really for my benefit because without the income, which isn’t allowed to be a lot anyway, finances will be crazily tight ☹️

poppy123456

It's still working. My advice is to ring motability tomorrow morning and ask them.

atlas46

Hi @babscat

There is nothing to worry about.

What you have been quoted on this thread are the guidelines of the Motability Scheme.

There is no hint of abuse of the scheme, in that the car will be used by your husband, to maintain joint income of the household (for your specific benefit).

In legal terms, all you need to prove is a “causation link” in any use of the car.

In your case, without said photo shoot, destitution might await you.

I provide a worked example, I have a Motability car, my wife has COPD, as a consequence each month she attends her GP, using the car (without me).

There is a causation link, in that if my wife does not use the car, then her health and well being will be put at risk.

As a further consequence so will mine.

Let us know if you need more assistance or guidance.

Best wishes.

babscat

atlas46

Thank you so much for your response. That to me sounds like common sense!

The fact is that my husband gave up full time work three years to become my carer as I have, unfortunately, gradually lost the ability to be independent. So .... the finances have been pretty tight!😳

On average he only does about 1.5 photo shoots a month .... (he can’t earn more or we’ll lose the Carers allowance) but it makes a real difference to our household budget. 

We’re going to phone motability tomorrow and ask them. 

atlas46

Hi @babscat

Make sure you explain in detail about your financial situation.

Also the fact, if you were able to drive, you would drive your husband to his photo shoots..

But due to your disabilities you are now unable to drive.

Also, stress the causation link in using the car, to maintain you modest household income ( for your specific benefit).

I have always found the staff at Motability, both friendly and helpful.

Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes

Government_needs_reform

@bobscat @atlas46 Iam sorry to say this but I still don't believe Motability will allow the use of that car for any work or Business activity.

bobscat I've read here your car at present is due to run out in November why not ask Mobility if you can buy the car of them, I don't know how much you would have to pay but worth asking.

Atlas46 Mobility I've too always found them very accommodating, But I'm pretty sure the insurance that's supplied is not for Business purposes.

bobscat I hope Mobility can do it for you and can proof me wrong, but I don't think I will be on this.

Good luck.

atlas46

Hi @Government_needs_reform

The car is not being used for business purposes, it’s being used for transport to his workplace.

As would be the case if I used my car to and from a place of employment.

We will find out shortly after @bobscat has made her call to Motability.

Government_needs_reform

@atlas46 fair point... But will be interesting what bobscat answer is once they get a reply from Motability.

babscat

@atlas46 @Government_needs_reform I’ll call tomorrow and let you know what they say. I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed. 

Government_needs_reform

Good luck, as this will be interesting what they say @bobscat while your on the phone try and ask how much they would sell the car to you for.

poppy123456

@Government_needs_reform i don't believe that the car they have at the moment is from motability, it's a separate lease agreement.

Government_needs_reform

poppy123456 said:

@Government_needs_reform i don't believe that the car they have at the moment is from motability, it's a separate lease agreement.

@poppy123456 just re, read bobscats post above, and god hell your right "Again" 👍 I'm gonna keep of my pills methinks🤣

Perhaps poppy in that case they could ask the leasing company if they will sell it at a good price..

poppy123456

@Government_needs_reform hmm that's worth thinking about seriously though, no worries i misread things all the time and get names wrong......

Government_needs_reform

@poppy123456 like it, that's why I'm not on here very much as you know, to many darn pills. As for getting Names wrong🤣 as always my friend, you wanna worry if I called you a fish called Wanda.

Keep well. ❤️

wilko

Hello all, the use of mobility cars is a grey area,  
1, using the car to go shopping benefits the claimant by providing their food.
2, Going out with out the claimant, is, to play darts bowels ect, benefits the claimant as he or she is happy knowing you are having a break from caring if only for a few hours.
3,using for trips out, as intended
 
where do we draw the line I know of people who do all of the above with their partners mobility cars .

April2018mom

wilko said:

Hello all, the use of mobility cars is a grey area,  
1, using the car to go shopping benefits the claimant by providing their food.
2, Going out with out the claimant, is, to play darts bowels ect, benefits the claimant as he or she is happy knowing you are having a break from caring if only for a few hours.
3,using for trips out, as intended
 
where do we draw the line I know of people who do all of the above with their partners mobility cars .

Thank you. I’ll keep this in mind

Adrian_Scope

Hello @babscat, it does seem like a bit of a grey area and I've been unable to find any specific guidance about it online. I would imagine there is a big difference between him using it for journeys to and from work as opposed to using it for business purposes, but I wouldn't like to say for sure. Please let us know what they say when you call today.

babscat

@Adrian_Scope thank you. I think that’s the problem - that it is such a grey area. My husband is my carer and as such is limited on what he can earn. Due to the nature of my illness he has to be able to work flexible hours and he has been able to fit one or two photo shoots in a month. It has been perfect for us. I’ll be calling motability later today to see what they say. 

exdvr

Hi @babscat,    The car has to be used by, or for the benefit of, the disabled person.

This does not mean that the disabled person needs to be in the car for every journey.

 In practice, this means other named drivers  can use the car for shopping and other routine activities, as long as the disabled customer will benefit.  

  The fact that your husband is using the car to provide income is surely a benefit to you.

Only drivers approved by RSA's standard insurance underwriting criteria and listed on your Certificate of Motor Insurance can drive the car.

Obviously if the disabled person is not present in the car then there is no valid Blue Badge entitlement, but in all cases the disabled person must benefit from its use.

babscat

Hi everyone that posted answers.

Thank you all so much.

I rang today and explained the situation, how few hours/miles my husband works per average month, and the benefit of that work to our finances and therefore to my well being. They have agreed that the car can be insured for his photo work!!
Phew .... I’d been so worried. 

Very happy now 😊
 

Government_needs_reform

babscat said:

Hi everyone that posted answers.

Thank you all so much.

I rang today and explained the situation, how few hours/miles my husband works per average month, and the benefit of that work to our finances and therefore to my well being. They have agreed that the car can be insured for his photo work!!
Phew .... I’d been so worried. 

Very happy now 😊
 

There you go @bobscat ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Glad to help.  BUT a big BUT?

One thing if I was you, is if you can is get it in writing, just me, I trust no one.

atlas46

Hi @Government_needs_reform

You are really are an old cynic (I am worse than you, when it comes to DWP).

This is good news, that Motability has confirmed the “causation link” to our dear friend @babscat has now been informed, her dear husband can maintain his modest employment, on her behalf.

I am sure that @babscat will be able to retrieve this thread, should the need arrive, following her phone call to Motability.

It is an important decision that shows “guidelines” are not rules of law, into the use of a Motability car.

I remain at all times, a cynic of DWP, despite the best efforts of my dear friend @Government_needs_reform, who might try to persuade me otherwise!!

Government_needs_reform

@atlas46 No buddy, trust me I'm totally panic manic, I'm not trusting anyone,
the reason I'm like it is not official if it's isn't unless I have it in writing?
 
Even anything talked about over the phone has even to be confirmed in writing.

The DWP are a classic example I have all dealings with them in writing.

I remain a cynic to anything, I now know @atlas46 means it as I have it in writing🤣🤣🤣🤣👍

Adrian_Scope

That’s great news @babscat, I’m so glad they were able to confirm it for you, it’s must be a relief! Best of luck to your husband for any upcoming photo shoots.

babscat

@Government_needs_reform
I totally get what you mean..... I have the name of the person I spoke to and the name of the underwriter too!
The person I spoke to was very helpful and extremely thorough too, so I have full confidence in their advise and, excitedly, will be looking at cars now!! 

babscat

@atlas46 If I could, lol, I’d be dancing! The causation link was, I felt, quite important. I explained my situation so they could understand the importance of the additional income. It was so nice to talk to someone who showed empathy and common sense.
massive relief .... now the fun of choosing our next car!!

babscat

@Adrian_Scope Yes, fab news ... feel like we’ve won the lottery!! Big smiles here 😎

atlas46

Hi @Government_needs_reform

Can I please get back to you in the next few days.

I am about to board my Leer jet, as I need to move several Billions of Dollars, from my Yorkshire bank account, to  Zurich and then on to off shore accounts.

Yes I still claim PIP, but I am a lawful claimant.

I further attest, I lack the capacity to verify your capacity to be a cynic of DWP !!

Government_needs_reform

babscat said:

@Government_needs_reform
I totally get what you mean..... I have the name of the person I spoke to and the name of the underwriter too!
The person I spoke to was very helpful and extremely thorough too, so I have full confidence in their advise and, excitedly, will be looking at cars now!! 

@babscat I get what you are saying I myself have only ever had a great experience with Motability.

RSA is the insurance company 'Royal Sun alliance' and they do the underwriting.

Just having a name is really not worth anything unless it's in writing, the person you spoke to maybe generally a really nice person, but then say later on NO I didn't say or do that.

But again it's not valid proof...

I myself would feel better having it in writing, take it for one instance you you and your husband had an accident coming back from, or going to a phot shoot, then the insurance company need to know what happend?
 
Then you say for arguments sake we was going to do a photo shoot.

If it's not confirmed in writing you may also not be covered by this what you e been told over the phone.

Me again over thinking everything again.😤

babscat, do what your happy with.😊

Government_needs_reform

atlas46 said:

Hi @Government_needs_reform

Can I please get back to you in the next few days.

I am about to board my Leer jet, as I need to move several Billions of Dollars, from my Yorkshire bank account, to  Zurich and then on to off shore accounts.

Yes I still claim PIP, but I am a lawful claimant.

I further attest, I lack the capacity to verify your capacity to be a cynic of DWP !!

@atlas46 of course you can, as long as it's all in writing. Behave you should know better?

Now you now know, as I've put it to you in writing. Take care.

@babscat good luck and hope it all works out okay for you both.👍

babscat

@Government_needs_reform Ah .... I forgot to mention something quite important ... the insurance certificate for the business use will be issued once we have the car ... so ... in the event of anything happening travelling to/from photo shoot, the insurance will be valid! 😊

Government_needs_reform

babscat said:

@Government_needs_reform Ah .... I forgot to mention something quite important ... the insurance certificate for the business use will be issued once we have the car ... so ... in the event of anything happening travelling to/from photo shoot, the insurance will be valid! 😊

@babscat That's a result then, as you will have it in writing ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

poppy123456

That's great news. Just goes to show that some things are quite what they seem to be. Have fun choosing that car.

KG100

If our partners can use it for work then it's easier for them to quickly get home to us if we're taken ill. 

babscat

Absolutely KG100 

Adrian_Scope

You'll have to let us know what car you decide on @babscat!

babscat

@Adrian_Scope It’s very exciting! We think we’ve decided on a Vauxhall Grandlander X. Several reasons for this choice:
1) enough space (with the back seats down) for my scooter, and, importantly, our dog Maddies, crate. 
2) perfect height for getting in and out  (for my hips)
3) the most amazingly comfy seat!! It has 16 way adjustments - bliss!! 
We think we’ll be placing the order at the end of August. The garage said to allow at least 3 months so hopefully delivery before Christmas.
Can’t wait!!! 

April2018mom

Show us pictures!

babscat

It was a real eye opener trying the front seats out. They are called ergonomic active seats. They are ARG certified, (campaign for healthier backs) and are designed to provide long distance travel seating and back comfort. 
I never knew such seats existed!