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PIP APPEAL HEARING EXPERIENCE

male45
male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
edited September 2019 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hello everyone.  I'm new to here and came on to share my experience yesterday of my PIP APPEAL. 
I've waited 13 months on the appeal having four previous dates postponed mostly because of lack of medical files and the one appeal date letter posted to my old address (even though I did write to them giving my new address). 
Anyhow yesterday my appeal was set for 2.30pm myself, wife and representative from CAB now known as Advice Space set going over all evidence and his Hope's to have my daily living component raised from standard rate to enhanced rate.  He didnt hold out hope of getting my mobility component added which was withdrawn on my assessment. 
The clerk of the court came to us a few times to say the case in front if us was over running. . Then after 2 full hours which was around 3.35pm the clerk came back inviting our rep alone into the tribunal room. He returned very deeply upset and said the panel wants it adjourned and when he pressed the panel that my case wouldn't take long the panel dr asked then for my mri scan images because my mri results were in my medical files but he wanted to see the scans as basically in my reps own words the dr thinks I'm bluffing.
Today I've talked to my rep and completed a form for him to obtain from hospitals my mri results. 
Info on my health history is:   I was a bus driver in belfast often assaulted and finally had my bus patrol bombed and gutted from which the firms dr medically discharged me from the job on grounds I couldn't go on.
That was 1985. I've suffered from PTSD ulcers, anxiety, depression, and had a heart attack in 2006 with stent inserted. In the last few years I've had back pain increasing yearly. Last year it was so bad I was sent for xray and mri scans. The scans show DDD degenerative disc disease with osteophytes in L5 to S1. Also two discs just above having buldging in them. My gp said I've stage 3 DDD
But the pip assessor removed my mobility part of dla I was getting but kept the daily living lower component.   She said she was a nurse. 
I gave up my driving licence because of dizziness, blurry vision and back pain of pressing the pedals as well it's against the law to drive while using medication of certain types. I'm on three 400 mg of gabapentin daily and one 600mg of same at night as well as heart meds and high bp meds. The appeal panel cant understand why I volunteered giving my licence back 
We left the building demoralised. But will try obtaining my mri scan images for next hearing which will have same three persons and hopefully I can actually get in to the room to be interrogated.
I wonder have any members had similar experience at appeals. 

Best Wishes 
«134567

Comments

  • Ails
    Ails Member Posts: 2,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @male45 and welcome to the Community.  It is nice to meet you and thank you for sharing your experience with us.  I'm very sorry to hear what happened yesterday with your hearing as that must have been very frustrating for you.  Thank you for highlighting this to others.  I am sure there will be members who have went through a similar experience and can relate to this.  Please keep in touch and let us know how your new hearing goes.  If we can be of any help/support to you then please just let us know.  All the best.   :)
    Winner of the Scope New Volunteer Award 2019.   :)
  • emmarenshaw
    emmarenshaw Member Posts: 711 Pioneering
    Hello @male45 welcome to the community and thank you for sharing your experiences with us. That must have been so hard for you to go through, know that we’re here if you need our support. The community and Scope team  are lovely and are here when or if you need them.
  • April2018mom
    April2018mom Posts: 2,868 Connected
    Hello @male45!
    How frustrating for you! Thanks for sharing your story with us. Keep us updated on your hearing too. 
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    Thank you all for your lovely comments and welcoming me here. 
    Yes it was very frustrating,  we couldn't believe what we were being asked for.
    Today it has soaked in and all I can think of is that the panel dr was a pratt. 
    :)
    Best Wishes 
  • paffuto10
    paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
    Hello @male45 and welcome  :)

    Thanks for sharing. 
    The whole PIP thing is such an ordeal, isn't it? Gets most of us down I think. 

    Sorry to hear you're having to go through all this stress.

    I'm lucky, I haven't yet had to go through appeal so can't share any experience with you. 

    Someone will have though and very likely to come along and advise /share. 

    Hope you and your wife have the strength to carry on. 
    System stinks!!  :(  <3
  • deb74
    deb74 Member Posts: 777 Pioneering
    Hi @male45. I was lucky when I got my pip. My assessor was lovely and I got my pip first time. So many people seem to have to appeal. It is so unfair! Good luck
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    Thank you Paffuto10 and deb74
    Yes it's been a trying time from last year. Someone told me that the judiciary has been leaned on because too many appeals are being or rather were being won. I know that cant be but it's interesting
    I'll keep fighting even though my rep says we have to be careful incase my standard daily living and esa are taken off me.  He told me yesterday that the person who acts as judge...is hostile...towards him and has opposed him a good few times now he also said whilst sitting around chatting to other reps from other organisations they have confirmed same story of the same legal person being hostile to them also.  I am dreading the next date as I'm prepared for the legal person voting no and the dr the same. 
    Best Wishes 
  • emmarenshaw
    emmarenshaw Member Posts: 711 Pioneering
    @male45 Good luck with it all, know that we’re here should you need our support or to access any of Scope’s services. Please keep us posted with how you are getting on.
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    Thank you I will indeed.
    Maybe some could tell me what they feel about this panel I've to go before whenever that will be.
    Best Wishes 
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    @male45 Good luck with it all, know that we’re here should you need our support or to access any of Scope’s services. Please keep us posted with how you are getting on.
    Thank you. I've been in touch with my go who informs me that drs surgeries dint keep scan images  I'll have to contact all hospitals I've been to for scans now. I'm not familiar with Scopes services, could you tell me a little more about these please.
    Best Wishes 
  • paffuto10
    paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
    @male45

    Good morning  :)

    Feeling a bit fed up this morning because it's lovely sunshine outside and not well enough to go out !! 
    Ah well, what can you do? 

    Angry on your behalf that after all you've been through, you now have to chase up scan images.!!!!
    Why, when they already have the results??? 

    Sorry, I'm quite new here myself so not really sure about "scopes services" yet.

    We've just finished our own battle (small battle compared to yours) with Mandatory Reconsideration for our adult son who has severe autism / mild brain damage and lives in supported living. They gave him zero points for PIP after being on DLA for 20 years!!! 

    Anyway, we managed to get him standard Daily Living and standard Mobility. Yaaay  :)

    My own battle starts in two weeks with my PIP Renewal assessment. Dreading it.!!! 

    There's not much you can do about it over the weekend so could you possibly manage to switch off for a few days to rest yourself?
    Maybe something good on TV or Netflix? Or if well enough to go out with wife, just sit outside a nice cafe and "people watch"? 
    We do that (when I'm up to it) when things get too much and we both promise not to mention PIP for a whole day  ;)

    Sorry I'm not very helpful except to give support. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,607 Disability Gamechanger
    @male45 if HMCTS are considering removing points which will remove any existing award they have to warning you before doing this. They will either warn you by sending you a letter or wait for the hearing and warn you during the hearing, which will then be adjourned to allow you time to consider going ahead or risk losing everything you already have.

    Your ESA award has nothing to do with your PIP claim.

    I'm actually very surprised that your rep didn't know this...
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    Hi Paffuto10.
    I'm sorry you're going through your own battles for your son yourself and wife as she suffers also. This who system sucks to hell and no one cares about it really. I rang a political parties surgery here asking for help to complete my pip assessment form last yr. They refused on grounds they were helping too many and hadn't the time. I'm glad I dont vote.
    I sincerely hope you win your case.as for your sons case I'm glad you got both fir him after an uphill struggle.
    I cant understand the system with your sons battle .my nephew is an adult drivers and works and goes to the gym he is autistic also. Goes into severe bouts of depression at times. He was in one at time of his pip assessment when the assessor visited him at home. He never got out of bed. The assessor told my sister his mother by alright he should be so she could assess him. But she asked my sister questions and left. He got full enhanced on both. 
    I've just received in the post this morning a letter from the appeals place telling me reasons they adjourned,  not only are they asking for images of my mri scans but also letters from my OT, my Physiotherapist department,  and why my driving lience was removed from me.
    They asked my rep about my lience when I was there he told them I surrendered it myself on grounds of the meds I am on like gabapentin,  heart meds, aspirin etc and dizziness, blurry vision, headaches, osteoarthritis on my back and neck  but this doesnt appear satisfactorily to the appeal panel. ( I thought it was against the law to drive under the influence of drugs and alcohol.
    I told my rep I asked the OT and Physio departments months ago for letters to help with my pip appeal and both said no they dont do letters. This appears not satisfactory to the appeal panel also.
    My wife's down this morning after reading the letter and wants me to drop the appeal because as she said they appear willing to remove the standard rate of daily living I've got fir pip plus my esa 
    I dont know what to do now I'm truly feeling low.


    Best Wishes 
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    @male45 if HMCTS are considering removing points which will remove any existing award they have to warning you before doing this. They will either warn you by sending you a letter or wait for the hearing and warn you during the hearing, which will then be adjourned to allow you time to consider going ahead or risk losing everything you already have.

    Your ESA award has nothing to do with your PIP claim.

    I'm actually very surprised that your rep didn't know this...
    Hi Poppy123456
    I read somewhere it may even have been on scope somewhere that the legal person has in the past told the appellant that esa will also be contacted because the appellant that sat before them that day lost their pip in full .
    I think my rep did say we had to he careful..he may have mentioned benefits or not I'm not sure as by that time my head was pickled.
    The appeal building is in central Belfast,  I had not until that day set foot in Belfast for over 40 yrs because of the trauma I experienced as a Belfast bus driver during the troubles.
    My rep says they are not taking that into account or my mental state having ptsd.
    I now know why he returned to the room we sat in looking very angry and annoyed.
    I appreciate your advice and comments it's truly helpful.
    I'd love to hear from others and what advice scope give me please.

    Best Wishes 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,607 Disability Gamechanger
    HMCTS don't contact ESA because PIP and ESA have different criteria and one doesn't affect the other.
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    HMCTS don't contact ESA because PIP and ESA have different criteria and one doesn't affect the other.
    I hope you're right and thank you :smile:
    Best Wishes 
  • male45
    male45 Member Posts: 312 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    @male45 - I don't have any experience of tribunals as I didn't get that far but in criminal proceedings you'll find a great reluctance in starting a case if it means that the judge might not be out of the door on time. You said I believe that you were running a couple of hours late so this might explain the adjournment rather than needing additional evidence perhaps?

    Personally I'd have a think about whether your rep is a good choice.

     If 'the judge is hostile towards him and has opposed him'  then I'd try to find out why - if he has a track record of antagonising people on the panel personally I'd look elsewhere. 
    I honestly do not know if he has any track record for antagonism and I doubt that I would ever find out if so. As the time was running against us I believe the panel wanted home so made the outrageous demands from us.
    I have phone one organisation today telling them what has happened and asking for their help and advice...they didnt want to know they just said speak with your rep. I expect that from other orgs.  I've to meet my rep on thursday and will have a long hard talk with him.
    Thank you for listening :)

    Best Wishes 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,607 Disability Gamechanger
    male45 said:
    HMCTS don't contact ESA because PIP and ESA have different criteria and one doesn't affect the other.
    I hope you're right and thank you :smile:
    I am correct. As for your rep, i would also have a long think about whether or not to stick with them. Seems to me like they may not be the best person to represent you.
  • worried33
    worried33 Member Posts: 411 Pioneering
    Consider the @cristobal advice.

    In my previous work with tribunals, I was always told treat the panel with respect 'always'.  Dont let things get personal.  Its not a game of roulette where you expect things to even out, if a particular judge gives a lot of judgements against you it could simply be down to those particular cases and they fell on that judge.  The rep isnt acting in a manner that would fill me with confidence.

    In my last tribunal where I represented myself, I was grilled pretty heavily, and didnt think it was going to end well.  But I did get the award I went in for.  If you expect the judge and panel to trust you, then you also have to trust them, it works both ways.

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