Permitted work and appeal

poppy123456

You don't need to ring ESA/DWP because you're no longer claiming this because you're waiting for the Tribunal hearing which could be in excess of 1 year. DWP are most certainly not the people to ring to ask for any advice.

You need to ring HMRC and claim working tax credits and tell them that you're self employed and that you're claiming SDP, just like you did when you claimed it previously.

lemonbade

I just don't want to get into any trouble for saying conflicting things re. the 16 hours. Why would ESA/DWP not be helpful in this instance? Also my ESA is on hold- paused, waiting for the appeal. So I if in the meantime were to work 16 hours, or earn over £131.50 and I then won my appeal, I would not be able to get ESA backdated as I would have broken the rules.

poppy123456

When ringing DWP the adviser on the phone mostly read from a screen and they are seriously not the best people to ring for any advice regarding benefits. I can't tell you the amount of stories i've read where they've been given the worst advice i've ever heard.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here because you said you were earning £155 per week, which is more than £20 per week over the maximum amount allowed to earn for permitted work and now you're saying you're reluctant to claim tax credits because you'll be saying you're earning more than £131.50 per week but you do anyway.

You came to ask for advice on what you could claim and i have given you that advice.

lemonbade

After my self-employed expenses I earn very little. The VEP section of ESA decided to disallow loads of standard expenses that the Inland Revenue/my  accountant say are fine. That's how the permitted level of £131.50pw was pushed over. After expenses I don't even earn £131.50 after expenses. Hence my appeal. Thanks for your advice. 

poppy123456

No problem. What is classed as expenses for tax purposes could very well be different to what DWP class as expenses for permitted work.

lemonbade

Yes, that's what they are claiming. But this decision maker has disallowed things like travel (I have to travel for work), items I have bought purely for my job, use of home as office, and greatly reduced everything else. I had never been told any of these rules, and have been submitting accounts to them for years. In all the guides and info online about ESA self-employed expenses, the only things stated as disallowed are 'business entertainment' and 'food'. Certainly not the standard expenses I've claimed. Everyone I have spoken to says it is unfair and over-zealous. 

poppy123456

There's very little information online about ESA permitted work and self employment, it's usually down to a decision maker to decide what's accepted for expenses. Where online did you find that information? How long have you been self employed while claiming ESA?

lemonbade

Since 2013. And self
employed for 21 years. I had meetings at the job centre approving everything when and then when put in support group saw nobody so continued doing the same. Sent in my accounts every year. Then suddenly all this. I only ever did what I was told I could do. I found a ‘decision makers guide’ online plus the Citizens Advice sent me photocopies of pretty much the same. I spoke to a decision maker last week who also sent me to the legal docs website saying the same thing. Nowhere does it specify that the expenses I’ve always been allowed previously are now disallowed. So how am I supposed to know the rules if I am never told them?! 

lemonbade

Hi poppy, just to let you know that I phoned WTC and they said that I absolutely do have to be working 16 hours in order to claim WTC. I also have to be in receipt of SDP in order to apply, as unless you have this, you have to apply for UC. It's only the small group of people on SDP that are still eligible to apply for WTC. I'm still appealing against the ESA decision as I believe I was not earning more than is permitted.

poppy123456

That's contradicting what it states on the website about self employed and claiming WTC because the rules are different to those that work for an employer.

You are also in receipt of SDP because it's added onto your housing benefit claim, even though you're not receiving the money, it's an SDP award and this means you can't claim UC.

lemonbade

if you’re are able to send a link to the site where it says that I’d be very grateful! ?

poppy123456

I did post a link in a previous comment, here. https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-do-tax-credits-work/self-employed/

In a previous comment above you said that you were earning £155 per week, working 3-4 hours. As a general rule, HMRC accept that a self-employed activity meets the test where income from that activity is at least the equivalent of the national minimum wage. NMW is £8.21 per hour for those aged over 25, which i assume you are. 16 hours x £8.21 gives a total of £131.36 which means you pass the test to claim WTC. This and the fact you have an SDP award in with your housing benefit, which you need to tell HMRC when you ring, if you don't tell them this they will refuse your claim because all areas are now a full UC. They will then check with your local council that you have the SDP award in with your housing benefit.

lemonbade

Ah yes, I did see and open that and I read it but couldn't find a specific sentence that stated that. 
In my original post you'll see that I am not earning £155. That's what ESA say I am earning, based on their ridiculous non-allowance of my standard self employed expenses. I earn much less than that. It all depends if you are allowing my expenses as to what my income actually is.