PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP refusal as expected. Has anyone got over this first hurdle ( not literally )?

KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
These assessments are not very scientific. The DWP have decided I can stand and walk 200 metres yet there is no evidence of this. I told the Capita assessor every step is agony for me, I'm not awaiting double TKR for no reason. The report is littered with inaccuracies and the tests are ridiculous. It was stated I do not have CTS as my grip was very good. This consisted of pinching the assessor's thumbs with my thumbs and index fingers. I plan on asking what the actual pounds per square inch force was. It's ludicrous. These tests have exacerbated my conditions, particularly my arthritic knees acid reflux condition. Would I have any redress under Cruel and Unusual Punishment as per The Human Rights Act?

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Your next step is to request the MR and you have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this. You should put this in writing stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    I'd advise you to avoid mentioning any lies/contradictions that may have been told in the report because DWP/Tribunal won't be interested in any of those. Any complaints about the report should be sent to the heath assessment providers and details how to do this will be on their website.

    Please do be aware that PIP isn't awarded based on a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors. Having some understanding of what the descriptors mean always helps. This link will help with that. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

    No, there's no grounds for anything under cruel and unusual punishment of human rights. It will be your word against theirs.

    Most MR decisions remain the same so you'll very likely have to take it to Tribunal. Appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. The only downside is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and people are waiting a year and more for a hearing date.

    Good luck.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • DuffersMumDuffersMum Member Posts: 119 Pioneering
    These assessors seem to ignore any pain you might be in whilst walking, I personally think they are a disgrace and just make it up as they go along.  I was marked down because I can drive a car..according to the assessor that means I can walk up to 50m...absolute shambles, it says nothing in the assessors guide about driving at all yet I’ve read loads of complaints about people being marked down because of it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Oh yeah apparently I'm cured, I no longer have mental health problems according to the assessor I had.. nothing had changed since my first assessment though. He must have cured me at the assessment eh.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Best of luck with the MR @KnobblyKnees! How are you getting on?

    Please do let us know if we can do anything else to help. :)
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  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,896 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @KnobblyKnees - Just to let you know I did receive the award I felt correct with a MR before I joined Scope's community.
    If I'd had Poppy's help I would have probably sailed over this 'hurdle'.....as it was I needed to use both of my elbow crutches!
    One inaccuracy I did mention was that the Health Care Professional correctly said that my pain medication just dampened this down a bit; whilst the DWP Decision Maker stated that my pain medication was effective! :)
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Many thanks everyone particularly @Poppy123456 and @Chloe_Scope. Sorry for the late reply I couldn't access the site for some reason. I ended up doing a MR over the phone but am really wishing I hadn't bothered in the first place. Now I'm getting hounded for an ESA assessment. I cancelled the previous ESA F2F home visit and asked them to make it at one of their centres as I explained there would be a confidentiality issues as it's not my house and they've sent another home visit appointment for the 4th of December. From the wording of the appointment letter they are insinuating two orthopaedic surgeons and I am lying. It's 14 months until I can retire, 6 months of that will be taken up by the TKRs, not including waiting time, so they will spend god knows what on a home visit by a doctor to save a pitiful few hundred pounds as the forms will be pre-filled at zero points. It's like something out of Kafka.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry you have had issues accessing the site @KnobblyKnees, we had some software issues. 

    How are things going at the moment? 
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  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Hi Chloe_Scope, re; this ESA/PIP debacle not good tbh. I rang the Health Advisory Advisory Service ( previously known as ATOS ), explained the situation and a fairly sympathetic woman assured me she would cancel the appointment and make one at an assessment centre then lo and behold I got home yesterday and my housemate said a doctor had called to see me. I rang the HAAS who promised to ring back but didn't. So what's my rights, I cancelled one appointment but they cancelled the second one? I'm currently hanging on the line to speak to someone at the DWP to make a Reasonable Adjustment under The Equality Act 2010. If the DWP believe my Protected Characteristic to be worthy of restricting my NI number to protect confidential information, ergo it's unfair to expect me to breach sensitive data in the presence of third parties do you think? What does your legal expert think?
    Many thanks
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    This could potentially be classed as failing to attend and you need to be careful of this. If this happens then your ESA will stop and you'll be found fit for work.

    Not sure what you mean by sensitive data unless you're talking about the assessment taking place in your home, when it's not your home. It could take place in your bedroom and then there's no sensitive data issues.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2019
    @knobblyknees - I'm not 100% clear whether you're talking about ESA or PIP...

    If it's PIP I'd think very carefully before you go too much further as the fact that you seem to be saying that you are in pain when you walk but, at the same time, refusing a home visit. This might appear to be contradictory.

    I don't know about ESA sorry...

    Good luck...
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    I'm in excruciating pain as my orthopaedic surgeon who has recommended 2 x total knee replacements can confirm. I've had the PIP assessment at a centre and I don't want a home visit assessment as I'm in a house share. Would you like discussing sensitive medical conditions such as being born intersex with your neighbours earwigging at the door? If the DWP deem my condition sensitive enough to warrant restricting access to my NI number and file then they should not expect me to breach my own confidentiality y'think?
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    This could potentially be classed as failing to attend and you need to be careful of this. If this happens then your ESA will stop and you'll be found fit for work.

    Not sure what you mean by sensitive data unless you're talking about the assessment taking place in your home, when it's not your home. It could take place in your bedroom and then there's no sensitive data issues.
    When I rang the DWP I stressed that I wasn't refusing an assessment and the HAAS cancelled the 2nd appointment not me. i found out yesterday from my statement they stopped my ESA without any notification even BEFORE any appointments were postponed or cancelled, the latter by the Health Advisory Assessment Service. The sensitive data in question is I was born with an XY intersex condition which I do not wish to discuss in the presence of third parties, these walls are like paper.
    I finally got through to someone at the DWP and they had a good laugh about it so you can imagine how my housemates would take the news. The DWP don't know why payments were stopped or what's happening.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing Team, Community Team Posts: 7,945 Scope community team
    It's absolutely appalling that the DWP representative laughed at your condition @KnobblyKnees. I'm really sorry to read this and I hope you'll consider writing an official complaint? 
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  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Thanks for your sympathy Adrian_Scope and it happens more often than not. I'd like to say I get used to it but it still cuts especially from sources you don't expect it from such as my family, the LGBT community and NHS staff. I didn't ask to be born intersex, it was not a choice. Tbh I'm more appalled that they've stopped my ESA without notification as it appears from the PIP mandatory reconsideration they have mixed me up with another 'queer' or 'trans' or 'DSD' 'weirdo' as they state I told the assessor I use a wheelchair but admitted I did not have a prescription for it. At no point on my audio recording did I make any such statement and they also claimed I have not provided any proof of my arthritic knees ( which I've suffered since 2001 ) or upcoming TKR operations. I have sent them reams of evidence and also showed the PIP assessor the appointment letters. I have made a Subject Access Request online, which I'd recommend all your rejected clients do. The incompetence is astounding. I would say there is a strong undercurrent of interphobia at play here, as Peter O'Toole once said " I see Hitler won after all. "
  • VOBVOB Member Posts: 45 Pioneering
    I got my 0 points but I just left it I didn't have the strength to fight them.
    They tried to say that I wanted someone to do my garden and shopping. I did say I love walking in the garden although my gardening was limited. It's a farce and they try to discredit every word
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Sorry to hear that VOB. I wish I'd never tried tbh but it was one of their staff that recommended I apply for PIP when I asked if I could get a loan or grant to buy an automatic as my left knee can't cope with a manual gearbox. It's a trap! If the fact that I can drive has gone against me then why are there all these disabled driver parking spots about? It's worse than a farce.
  • VOBVOB Member Posts: 45 Pioneering
    Hi
    I've list my car now because I had to drop my hours if work due to my illness and couldn't keep up the payments.
    I only drive automatic and I can say that you don't need much pressure in your foot to press the accelerator and the rest is done for you basically. I don't know why everyone doesn't drive automatic.
    👍
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    They do in America VOB. Automatics use more fuel and there's is cheaper.
    Just in case @Poppy123456 is interested, it seems from a telephone call from an obnoxious woman at the DWP today that my request for a Reasonable Adjustment re; moving my appt; to an assessment centre has been successful if you need to pass that info to anyone else in the same boat. However, she was unaware they stopped my ESA benefits and there's no sign of them reinstating them. Merry Christmas, I think I'll miss this one this year.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If they've accepted your reasonable adjustments request and you've been told there's no sign of them reinstating your ESA then have you asked why? This would be the first thing i'd have done because there's no reason why your ESA shouldn't be reinstated and they should then pay you what they owe you, if you missed a payment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @poppy123456 Yes of course I've rung them 7 times since I discovered they'd stopped my payments and each time I have to go through the palaver of them ringing me back as they don't have access to my restricted file but they don't ring back. The obnoxious ****/trans/interphobic woman I spoke to yesterday promised faithfully to arrange an assessment at the nearest centre but claimed she was unaware they'd stopped my benefits and said she'd contact the 'payment team' as she didn't have access. They did not contact me. My last ESA payment was on the 1st of November. I feel things are turning a bit sinister as they seem to be insinutating I'm in a relationship with my landlady, we wouldn't touch each other with barge poles. Your expert advice would be appreciated please.
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry you're being put through all of this. Just one question did your ESA payments stopped because you didn't attend the assessment or did they stop because they think you're in a relationship with your landlady?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Hi thanks for the sympathy. I'm not sure, they stopped the payments before any ESA appointment was arranged I think. I only found out when I got my bank statement. I remember the Capita assessor seizing on the fact that I houseshare with a female and not a male and the obnoxious woman yesterday asked me about 3 times to confirm I was single.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2019
    You're welcome. You need to find out if it is was because they think you're in a relationship because it sounds like this is the reason why, your payments maybe suspended but you should have received a letter regarding this.

    If this is the reason then you'll need to send evidence to prove that you're single, this would include bank statements, food shopping receipts and yes i know that sounds crazy but it can be difficult when you house share, especially if your bills are all included with your rent.

    What a complete mess -rolls eyes- I really do hope you get this sorted ASAP.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    @KnobblyKnees - I can't offer any expert advice as I don't know anything about ESA but I just wanted to say that the whole thing sounds a bit shabby to me...

    Have I read this right - your payment has been stopped and no-one has written to you to say why?

    Unfortunately I suppose you'll just have to ring them again to sort things out...

    Sorry you have to go through this - it's not nice...
  • KnobblyKneesKnobblyKnees Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Thanks so much for your replies.

    Success! What a palaver. HR must have had words about some of the questions the obnoxious woman asked me as she rang me back and couldn't have been more helpful and nice and my ESA has finally been restored and backdated.

    Obviously they made the home visit assessments ( now transferred to one of the HAAS centres ) to check out my single status as well as my medical conditions. I was just about to ask for a Statement of Facts from them when she rang me and I'm still unsure as to why they cut me off. I read online I could claim compensation in the region of £25 or do you think that's pushing it a bit? There's no wrongdoing on my part so I am entitled.

    Now looking forward to getting my knees sorted, my retirement and a Happy Christmas to one and all.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,896 Disability Gamechanger
    @KnobblyKnees - Very pleased to read things have been sorted out for you satisfactorily, altho' an apology would have been nice with all you've been put through! Hopefully you will be able to enjoy a Happy Christmas after all. My best wishes to your knees & the rest of you!
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    So glad to hear it has been a success in the end @KnobblyKnees! I hope you can find some time to rest now. :)
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