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PIP: proving you can't walk 20 metres

FlorineFlorine Member Posts: 37 Connected
I've been quite surprised to see on here recently that several people seem to have had little problem getting higher rate mobility on PIP while not being, shall we say, clearly obviously unable to walk 20 metres - or at least that was my impression.  It's all academic now as far as we're concerned (our only "proof" being that being in the Support Group for ESA "proves" that you can't walk more than 50 metres), but I'd still be interested to hear of the sort of approach which persuaded the DWP that you couldn't walk more than 20 metres and got you those awards, if that's allowed.

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    Hi,

    There's no high rate mobility for PIP, it's Enhanced mobility. Being in the Support Group for ESA doesn't prove you can't walk more than 50 metres because not everyone is placed into the Support Group for mobilising and it's not just about your ability to walk for this descriptor, using a self propel wheelchair is also part of it and if they think you can use one, then you won't be placed into the Support Group through that descriptor.  The main entry into the Support Group for a lot of people is regulation 35.

    For those that are placed into the Support Group through the mobilising descriptor (50 metres) will not help them get  a Enhanced mobility PIP award because the criteria for Enhanced mobility is no more than 20 metres.

    A lot of people successfully claim Enhanced mobility for moving around without any problems at all, myself included. I didn't have to persuade DWP that i couldn't walk that distance because i wasn't assessed by DWP, i was assessed by a HCP, who recommended Enhanced mobility because it was obvious i couldn't walk 5 metres without pain and discomfort.

    You will always read the negative stories on an internet forum and not the good ones because if someone's had an award they are happy with they have no questions to ask, so we never hear their story.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • FlorineFlorine Member Posts: 37 Connected
    edited January 2020
    Ah, pain - yes, I guess if you're obviously in pain that will certainly make it easier for the HCP to understand.  So I suppose the question is, what if what prevents you from walking more than 20 metres is not obvious?  What if it's the onset of fatigue, for example?  Clearly saying something along the lines of "by the time I've walked 10 metres I need to be turning round and going back again because otherwise the fatigue will set in and I'll be stranded" doesn't cut it, especially when the HCP has watched you take half-a-dozen steps indoors and concludes from that you're perfectly capable of walking 200 m outdoors - and has also erroneously put in the report that you've walked half a mile(!).  It's those cases where it's just your word against theirs that it's so difficult to prove.  And as for anecdotes - if you're struggling with something like chronic fatigue you learn the hard way not to try and push yourself beyond safe limits because the consequences are so dire if you do, so you're unlikely to be able to provide any. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    Again, you don’t have to prove things beyond reasonable doubt. Only on the balance of probabilities. Your evidence simply has to be credible and consistent. Obsessing beyond that is over-thinking it. 

    I think it’s incorrect to say that pain is obvious. It really isn’t. For most people it’s largely  invisible. Indeed the least credible form of pain in many ways is the visible kind. People who go around “oohing” and “aahing” at every movement. I’m not saying it isn’t painful and there are undoubtedly some people who can’t help but express themselves in that way but my experience of my own physical pain and that of clients over 30+ years is that pain is mostly invisible. When my back pain went from 2/10 to 8/10 it manifested itself as a sigh or several at worst and yet I was on meds 24/7 and some movements triggered genuinely excruciating pain; a problem with breathing or with my breath momentarily being taken away and with awkward movements rather than noise for example. 

    Thus the approach to fatigue is exactly the same as pain. Talking about being stranded is exactly how you do it and the anecdotes fall out of that. If you’ve concluded you will be stranded but never actually have been then you don’t know the actual limits if you’re walking and can’t really contradict a HCP who looks at you and not unreasonably sees enough to suggest you can walk further. People may not like that but it’s absolutely legitimate. If you have never walked to the point of being stranded then it’s exactly the same as saying you fear falling in the bath when you’ve never fallen in the house. 

    Chronic fatigue as in CFS or ME is slightly different but not much. It’s just about the detail again. Best explanation there is the concept of a finite bucket of energy. The bucket has an upper limit and a hole in it. Using energy drains the bucket but it drains faster than it does for other people and once it’s done it’s done and only sleep and time can replenish it. 

    Again, nothing complex. No fancy words, Just detail. If you have credible anecdotal examples that will always trump a HCP report. Tribunal win rates wholly bear that out. 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,845 Disability Gamechanger
    There are other ways to get enhanced mobility other than how far you can walk, I get it because I have to have someone with me wherever I go due to the constant risk and reality of seizures.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    woodbine said:
    There are other ways to get enhanced mobility other than how far you can walk, I get it because I have to have someone with me wherever I go due to the constant risk and reality of seizures.

    That's very true and my daughter receives Enhanced mobility for following and planning a journey but as this thread is about walking 20 metres then it's 2 different PIP activities.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
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