Carer's allowance
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Why did they give it to me in the first place?

parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
edited June 2020 in Carer's allowance
Hi new to the forum not good doing this but I will try . About 9 years ago my wife had 2 break downs in 6month. world turn upside down with two you girls to look after . The crises team where help ful the said about making a claim for cares allowance and there would help me with the form .I work so I filed it in got word back saying I was entiled to it so that was that. shock get a letter off them to say I should have not got it in the first place. I told no lies on the form did not know about £120 or so you cant go over I was and still working 39 hours no change at all so why did there give it ti me in the first place . Got a letter asking for a few pay slips sent them off am going to my cab office this what will . My wife not in good health trying to keep this from here

Replies

  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @parko

    Good Evening & Welcome it’s great to meet you today.

    I am one off the Community Champion’s here at Scopes.

    Please please let me know if there’s anything that I can help you with.

    @steve51
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,127 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @parko Welcome to the community.

    How long have you been claiming CA before they got in touch to say you were not entitled ? I know there is an earnings limit for you to be entitled to it. Did they ask about your earnings before when you claimed. Were you not made aware of the earnings limit

    It is also hard to claim carers when working full time as you have to care for the person for at least 35 hours per week to claim and on top of  full time job this doesn't leave much free time.

    If they try and claim back anything they have paid I would try and oppose this if you completed the form with correct information  
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi I have just received access request for all the paper work there have on us . On the form I told the truth my wages and 6 wage slips. looking back what I know now I was well over the amount. so why did there not stopped it then Hi I was claiming this for 11 years I always thought it was means tested. 

  • atlas47atlas47 Member Posts: 118 Pioneering
    Hi @parko

    A warm welcome.

    You need to get a copy of your original claim form, that you completed 11 years ago.

    Each year since then, you should have been sent an award letter, from DWP.

    In this letter it sets out in detail, what you have to report to DWP, that you are working 39 hour week and are earning £X per week.

    The onus is always on the claimant to report a change of circumstances, to DWP.

    You should seek detailed assistance and advice from a Welfare Rights Advisor.

    Let us know how you get on.

    Stay kind and be safe.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi like I have posted I have all the paper work from the first day 39hours my wage well over the limit and 6 wage slips saying the same think. so why give it to me
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 3,730 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @parko how are you today? If you have updated them from the start with your earnings then it could and i stress could be classed as official error which may (may) not have to be repaid, although I would ask when you became aware of the earnings limit?
    However best advice I can offer is to contact CAB or welfare rights and see what they have to say.
    my advice is given freely and is correct to the best of my knowledge.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
     I came aware when there asked me to send some wage slips in. As we think one of you are working. I have got a solicitor on stand by but as he says cant do out at the moment because we don't know what DWP are going to do . This has been going on from start of march could I be looking at a court case what could happen. My wife getting stress again
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 3,730 Disability Gamechanger
    As the solicitor says all you can do is wait and see what the DWP say, if you have been updating them on a regular basis with proof of your income which was above the limit then you have done nothing wrong, its their mistake not yours. The link below is worth a read:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/challenging-a-dwp-benefit-decision-on-or-after-28-october-2013/common-reasons-for-changing-a-dwp-benefit-decision/your-benefit-decision-has-been-changed-because-of-official-errors-or-changes-in-the-law/
    my advice is given freely and is correct to the best of my knowledge.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    Okay, so...

    1 - you don’t need to do anything beyond challenging the decision and asserting that you have fully disclosed at all times (assuming that it be true). The reason for this is that on overpayments like this it’s the DWP seeking to change the award decision so they have to show grounds for supersession and then that it’s recoverable, The burden of proof is wholly on them. They have to prove there was a failure to disclose and that it’s recoverable. Most likely they won’t be able to as much of the evidence will have been destroyed. You don’t need to get your original claim pack or anything as yet. Challenge the decision and make the assertion. Point out that the burden if proof is on DWP.

    2 - they cannot recover a penny of the cause of the overpayment was official error. They will try moral blackmail mostly because they don’t have a legal leg to stand on if it’s official error.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Thanks for your help and advice it goes a long way . Does it take this long  or is it because the virus is slowing thinks down
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi still no news
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,924

    Scope community team

    Hi @parko, sorry you still haven't heard anything. It used to take quite some time even before the lockdown etc, but I imagine it's going to take a little longer now. I hope you hear something soon.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

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  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi still no news got my letter on 22nd of feb long time waiting for that postman 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    I can imagine @parko! Sorry it's taking so long.
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  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi well i got a letter today A lot to fill in . it states that 17 feb 2020 your payments where stopped. Your ni records show you have been working. ( there knew that on my first application) Then there ask me to fill the forms in Date i started / wages still carer for my wife /my job /pay role number i have waited for the forms to come for 5 months and there want all these back by the 27 of this month
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    I would strongly advise you seek advice at this point but one thing to consider is that what they’ve sent you is an evidence gathering exercise. It implies the onus is on you to complete it but what exactly happens if you don’t? There’s no sanction. Benefit has already stopped. So, what’s really going on is an evidence gathering exercise. It strongly suggests they don’t have sufficient evidence and therefore are inviting you to incriminate yourself. As I say, you need advice at this point.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Thanks for that i rang my solicitor today he said its a bit early to see him as there have not said what there going to do next  .i have been waiting for months now when i get  news i started worry again . with the wife haveing 2 breakdowns in the past i rely on you peaple to talk to many thanks
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi to every one. rang this morning see if there was any news. There said it goes to another department. He says there have all the paper work in just not made any decision yet . i told him i got all the paper work off you and states my wages were well over. 6 wages slips stated that. He said it might have taken off other wage slips i said why ask for the last 6 . i said what would happen when there come to a decision He said a repayment plan or if cant pay that amount there would prob wright it off and fine me but no court action . Why do i not believe it
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi to every one. rang this morning see if there was any news. There said it goes to another department. He says there have all the paper work in just not made any decision yet . i told him i got all the paper work off you and states my wages were well over. 6 wages slips stated that. He said it might have taken off other wage slips i said why ask for the last 6 . i said what would happen when there come to a decision He said a repayment plan or if cant pay that amount there would prob wright it off and fine me but no court action . Why do i not believe it
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,924

    Scope community team

    Hi @parko. Thanks for coming back to update us. It's a shame you're still waiting for news, I imagine it's a pretty stressful time for you.
    Hopefully you won't be waiting too much longer and a plan can be worked out with them.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 2020
    So to be clear then, you asked about your options and no-one told you that you have the right to appeal the recoverability!!!

    Removed by moderator. Please read again my post dated the 23rd of July.


  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    you are right mikehughescq the few times i have talked to them no one has mention it
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi after nearly 8 months am no further on
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you taken the advice to seek advice?


  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    when i rang  my solicitor he says he  wont looking into it till there say what there going to do
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    You haven’t indicated whether you responded to their request for information. My original point was that you didn’t have to and so should get advice on that specific point. If your solicitor didn’t discuss whether you ought to have responded at all then you still perhaps need further advice. Ordinarily after this length of time I’d say nothing was going to happen but delays caused by the pandemic mean you may not be out of the woods yet. 

    I strongly suggest that whilst a solicitor is essential if fraud is alleged in the meantime you need welfare rights advice,
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi  there asked me the jobs i have done and i have given it to them. not sure what and where to go aqbout my welfare rights 
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    parko said:
    Hi  there asked me the jobs i have done and i have given it to them. not sure what and where to go aqbout my welfare rights 
    the solicitor has said which i have only emailed him he wont take it on till we know what there are going to do 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    parko said:
    Hi  there asked me the jobs i have done and i have given it to them. not sure what and where to go aqbout my welfare rights 

    Start here https://advicelocal.uk/

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s not perfect but I would start with https://advicelocal.uk/
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    The solicitor is correct at this point. There is clearly nothing to be done until there is a decision one way or another. 

    Unfortunately had you sought WR advice earlier you could have been better advised with regard to whether you needed to respond to any of DWPs questions. I observed earlier that you don’t always need to respond just because they write and you risk writing something which prolongs the investigation or gives it teeth where it had none. However, that’s all done now. You have responded.

    The way this works is that if DWP decide there is something to pursue they will make new decisions and write. If they decide nothing is to be done then unfortunately you most likely get nothing to indicate that. Benefit just stays in payment. I tend to the view that if nothing has happened in 6 months then it’s likely nothing will but that’s just my own view. I’ve no evidence base for that at all beyond anecdotal professional experience. You could of course contact them and ask but, if they’ve not even looked at it yet, you risk poking at a hornets nest. Again I tend to advise people to leave well alone but some people inevitably will feel differently about that. 

    If they do proceed then you will only need a solicitor if there’s a fraud prosecution. If it’s just a recoverable overpayment then a WR adviser will be fine and often more knowledgeable. Lots of solicitors tend to the view that overpayments are recoverable if you were overpaid but that’s not what the law says. Where people sometimes end up is with a solicitor who suggests there’s no defence to fraud whereas a WRO wins a tribunal on the same overpayment arguing that there was no recoverable overpayment because the burden of proof is lower. It’s as well to understand that different advisers have different specialist areas on the same thing. I have won tribunals showing there was neither misrepresentation nor a failure to disclose but the clients solicitor has already had them plead guilty to fraud.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    thanks mikehughescq  this is just not bothering me. Its my wife  she has had 2 breakdowns over the years am trying to keep this from her but she asks me things about it and some times i dont know the answers
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Thanks all for your help no news on this . But my Dear father has just died so my worrys about this goes away for a time
  • Tori_ScopeTori_Scope Posts: 4,010

    Scope community team

    I'm very sorry to hear of your loss @parko. We're always here if you need to vent or share how you're feeling.
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  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    thanks not sure  at the moment
  • Tori_ScopeTori_Scope Posts: 4,010

    Scope community team

    That's okay @parko, there's no pressure to share anything. Just know that we're here if you need us :) 
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  • wpsharkwpshark Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Carers allowance is a joke! Since I went onto Pension Credit I only get £8.53 CA per week, My caring duties have not changed at all, in fact they have increased. On top of that, the COuncil now expect me to pay in £42/week for any care my wife receives. They DO take into account her Daily Living All part of PIP.....even though it is NOT a means tested benefit,
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    wpshark said:
    Carers allowance is a joke! Since I went onto Pension Credit I only get £8.53 CA per week, My caring duties have not changed at all, in fact they have increased. On top of that, the COuncil now expect me to pay in £42/week for any care my wife receives. They DO take into account her Daily Living All part of PIP.....even though it is NOT a means tested benefit,

    Hi,

    When claiming your state pension you can't claim the carers allowance at the same time because they are classed as overlapping benefits. It means you get an under lying entitlement to it, this could mean that you could become entitled to a benefit for the first time, like for example the pension credit. Although you are only receiving £8.53 per week, if it wasn't for the under lying entitlement to carers allowance then it's likely you wouldn't be entitled to any pension credit. Make sure that they are adding the carers premium to your pension credit.

    Although PIP isn't means tested, this means that other income, savings/capital doesn't affect the amount you're entitled to. When your local council assess you financially they take into consideration the daily living part of PIP. This is the same for all local councils. Non means tested doesn't mean they ignore PIP when they assess you financially.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • wpsharkwpshark Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Thanks for repeating exactly what I know. It does not make it right or better.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    wpshark said:
    Thanks for repeating exactly what I know. It does not make it right or better.


    No worries. I never said it did. I don't make the rules, i just advise people.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    The current scenario with CA is bizarre whichever way we dress it up. The whole overlapping benefits scenario comes from the 1970s when politicians of all stripes believed you could only perform one role at a time (ironic from them really) so you could not be both a pensioner and a carer simultaneously. The evolution of the Carers Premium came about partly to address that issue but ultimately because pensions had been so decimated that basic Pension Credit routinely usurped it. 

    I think it’s useful to remember that most councils would rather not charge anytime for care but they’ve been given zero choice in the matter over the years by the decimation of budgets by central government. Punters of course routinely blame local government for the charges but the buck starts and stops with central government. 

    Without income from charging many councils would at this point be bankrupt and yet for most people the cost of care is both capped and subsidised. It’s scant consolation when you’re on a fixed income but that £42 width of care probably costs in excess of £200. 
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi no news yet phoned them today the lady was nice. i asked if there was any news there said it had gone to a team to make a decision she was going to contacted them. my wife is getting a bit down about this
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi i got a letter today. it says we have looked again at the facts and evidence we used to make our decision. As a result we have changed the decision. You are not entitled from 09/11/2009 to 5/5/2013 this is because your earnings were over the cares allowance limit for this period it also means we can not give you class 1 nat/insurance credits
    You are not entitled from 14/04 /2014 this is because your earnings are over limit 
    you can appeal this is called mandatory reconsideration so will there get in touch with me again about the overpayment
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Posts: 3,136

    Scope community team

    Sorry to hear that @parko, will you be going down the manditory reconsideration route?
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  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    am not to sure what that means can you help me 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If you've continued to paid the carers allowance since 2009 then there would be an overpayment. If the letter doesn't say anything about an overpayment then you'll need to ring them.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    why just up to 2014
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I have no idea, sorry. You will need to ask them that question.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi just let you know what is going on . Nothing no letters or calls the wait is hard and my wife not copeing with it well
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 1,162 Pioneering
    edited March 1
    Deleted - only noticed how old the discussion is after I posted!
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,924

    Scope community team

    Have you chased them at all @parko? I'm sorry it's impacting your wife so badly. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi rang them at the start of this month There say there have all the paper work there need I asked what will happen now there say there will put you on a debt management plan . I can’t  see them doing that with  the amount of overpayment need to pay back. There have not heard my side of the story yet I have just answered all there questions 
  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi its been 13months now and nothing. can any body know what i can do . more bad news last week my wife just found out she has cancer it seems that its getting on top of both of us 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,127 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm really sorry to hear about your wife our thoughts are with you both 

    Did you submit the Mr as advised about the letter you had , have you contacted welfare rights 

    I would have thought after all this time they are not doing anything about it . Try to put it behind you if something does come of it you can then challenge repayment through your solicitor 
  • Caz_ScopeCaz_Scope Posts: 549

    Scope community team

    @parko We haven't met or spoken before as I'm still quite new to the online community team. My name's Caz - it's nice to meet you. 

    I just wanted to say that I'm very sorry to hear about your wife. As @janer1967 says, our thoughts are with you both at this time. 

    How are you getting on in terms of your wife's cancer care? Are you receiving the support you need from your doctors? 

    Do keep in touch and let us know how you're both doing - and please remember that we're here if you need somebody to talk to.
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  • parkoparko Member Posts: 28 Listener
    Hi thanks for your advice i did sent a letter off and been in touch witn c/a my solicitor advice is there in nothing he can do till there tell you free advice off him at the moment. its been 14 months now can there keep me waiting , my wife geting the help she needs a few more hospital appointments to come 6 hours round trip to the hospital  so much to worry about i will keep in touch 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,941 Disability Gamechanger
    If an MR went in then it clearly hasn’t been actioned. That needs chasing urgently.
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