PIP appeal problem

atlas47

Can you review this thread.

cupcake88

@atlas47

i was thinking the same keep seeing it come up on my emails and I really can’t understand most of it and I don’t really see where it’s going no offence to any one here I think I have just lost what’s this is all bout .

we all have different illnesses and opinions and I think we should all understand I think any one has a right to speak there mind with helpful or factual information Or to lend a kind supportive ear .  I’m new to scope and I like the positivity and the fact we all help each other as well as fighting our own personal battles . but I think this thread has gone  to a point where it’s starting to get negative and I don’t even understand the thread and where it’s going . Please be kind Every one there’s so much **** going On in the world this should be a safe place to express our opinions please no one be horrible to Me for my opinion I just really have no clue to what this is about now or where it’s going . 

KingKongsFinger

laurapeach said:

The tribunals aren't paid by the DWP by the way, they're part of Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service which are entirely independent of the DWP and PIP.

The dwp do indeed pay for the tribunals......2 organisations that both work for the governament cannot be independant......

KingKongsFinger

Topkitten said:

When I first tried getting DLA I had some issues because I filled the form in myself and did it incorrectly. I was refused but appealed. When I attended I had a better idea of what I should have put but was advised not to change it, I lost the appeal. I tried again about a year later with the help of someone from MIND but again was refused. I appealed again and it turned out the woman hadn't written what I had said and it got refused again by exactly the same judge and accompanying professionals, which isn't supposed to happen. Another year went by before I tried again and this time I had the help from someone at the CAB and she did a better job but still I only got low rate mobility and I appealed again and lo and behold I got the same judge for a third time. This judge refuse d me and took away what I did have for the reason that "It isn't my job to give you a free car". I consulted with the lady from the CAB and we asked for a "Statement of Reasons". It was supposed to be sent within 6 weeks but took 3 months to actually get sent out. The lady from the CAB said there was nothing we could do. So I pointed out 5 outright lies in the statement and commented on another half dozen dubious points so she said she would get back to me. The next day she rang and had spoken with a Barrister friend who agreed with me. Consequently we applied to the High Court of Appeal and soon after that the judges decision was thrown out by the Clerk to the High Court (not the Court itself) as being non-factual and I was given a new appeal. This time I finally got a different judge and a successful appeal of High rate Mobility and Medium Rate Care backdated to the date of the third attempt (18 months). This also meant I could get ESA but they refused to backdate that at all, said it didn't apply or meet the demands of reasons to backdate.

Since then I have had to reapply for DLA once and switch to PIP. On both attempts I had a person from DWP visit me at home and fill the forms in for me. Both were successful because the people didn't just take my word for simple things but made me consider everything I automatically did without thinking, which also made things more difficult than even I considered.

I only applied at all the first time because when I asked my doctor if I was disabled he said "Yes, and you have been for about a year". The total time from start to finish was about 4 and a half years.

If I hadn't been able to understand and contest the Statement of Reasons or if the lady at the CAB hadn't had that friend I probably still wouldn't have got help.

The system is detestable and even worse now than it was then.

TK

Sounds like You had the same problems I am having

KingKongsFinger

Username_removed said:

Once again I note I’ve been tagged in and find myself reading the thread with increasing concern. Could I politely ask people to not tag me in? I’ll read what I can when I can and contributed if I’ve the time or think there’s a need. Sometimes I may have time and think there’s a need but simply not bother because there are other things I’d rather be doing. 

The last thread I was tagged in on was started by @KingKongsFinger and I note that some of the misapprehensions expressed there have been repeated here along with some new ones so let’s tackle those head on before addressing the original post.

1 - calling a judge and medical professional “arses” suggests you’re entering the tribunal room with an idea of what their role is that is removed from the reality. As observed in the other thread people generally (not always but generally) get the appeal hearing they deserve in terms of how much they attempted to understand the PIP regs and the role of a tribunal. 

Being offensive is a great way to make enemies of the very people you want on your side. Calling them names for the possibly entirely reasonable conclusion they drew based on what you have posted here is akin to shopping yourself in the foot. 

2 - KingKongsFinger said:

Unfortunately these laws/criteria are deliberately vague and open to interpretation, which is wrong imo. And as for the tribunal being "independant" hahahahaha, how can any tribunal be independant if it works for the government and is funded by the dwp, complete farce and if You aren't dying or nearly dead You're screwed. Need to get a campaign together but no-one around here seems interested in doing anything or challenging anything.

Both the above statements are wrong and misleading for other posters. The PIP regs, guidance and caselaw paint a pretty clear picture on most descriptors and certainly the ref you reference doesn’t say what you say it does. Your zero points comes from 

“ 2. Moving around.
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided.  0 points.”

There’s no repeatedly requirement in that wording. If you can go that far once then zero  points is correct. If you get up and walk round the block once and the dust above us anywhere near 200m (and most “blocks” would be far more) then you have “stood” and “moved”. There’s nothing either vague or open to interpretation there at all. 

As has also been pointed out here and in the other thread HMCTS have nothing to do with government and are no longer funded by DWP at the very top end. Expressing an opinion as fact is a breach of the terms of this site. Having it brought to your attention by several posters and then repeating it... hmm.

As regards the original post on this thread then I’m afraid this looks like another case of authoring your own misfortune and desperately needing advice and representation. My expectation is that anyone with macular degeneration and presumably with explicit and  ongoing consequences of a stroke would comfortably qualify for both components for PIP for at least 3 to 5 years but, depending on how far advanced the MD is, could potentially qualify on that alone. The fact you’re able to post here and also lost the appeal suggests to me not so much an injustice as at least a question mark as to the severity of your conditions at present. Something that would need to be discussed further with an adviser at minimum. 

I don’t know on what basis you “know” the judge or indeed know that they dislike you but you will always have the chance to object to their presence if you’re known to each other outside the tribunal room and to object if you think they know more of your circumstances than the other two tribunal members. Going ahead or not knowing who the judge was was in your control so if you chose to go ahead then it’s Simply too late to raise that issue now. The moment to do that was on the day. The moment has gone and even if you were able to get the matter to UT I have my doubts as to whether they would be especially sympathetic to your failure to object to the judge on the day.

As regards documents you’d not seen before I’m afraid I’m not convinced we’re getting the full picture here. If you’d not seen it before you could have asked for an adjournment to consider your response. If you’d not seen it before how could you know it had been “altered”? Tribunals do not spring new evidence on appellants on the day without offering the chance to adjourn. I’m afraid this part of the tale lacks sufficient detail or credibility to comment on further. 

As you appear to have sprung documents on the tribunal on the day I again think some perspective is required.

As regards a late appeal to the UT there are 2 issues:

1 - you may wish to query with your local CA why the deadline was missed and why a late application was not made? That’s between you and them.

2 - you did not need anything back from CA in order to pursue the matter yourself. The UT1 form is available online and you could get a further copy of both your appeal paints and the statement of reasons by contacting HMCTS. C-19 really doesn’t come into play. This may well still be rectifiable but you will need to move quickly. 

Mike, please look at these desciptors, activity 1 part d......https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/ESA_criteria I'm not talking about PIP, I have a successful PIP award......

And if the judge and gp are arses that's what I'm going to call them.....obviously I did not say that to their faces but I kinda wish I had......

Your attitude is very unhelpful and People have come here with genuine concerns and You're just shooting them down......

KingKongsFinger

Shaun_Hobbs said:

KingKongsFinger said:

From gov.uk website: https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision very clearly says "appeal a BENEFIT DECISION" not "be put on trial and reassessed and have all previous evidence ignored"

Oddly enough i wrote out a list of my objections and mistakes in both of the assesments and gave each member of the bench a copy,she glaced at it the threw aside and said  ''I dont need this,i have everything i need in the assesors report''.

That's awful, so they take what the assessor says without question and We have no way of disputing it, yeah really fair that is......

KingKongsFinger

cupcake88 said:

Hey and welcome how did they know you went to the gym ? Did the gym just tell them ? 

It’s a joke that exercising goes against you 

Yeah this sucks, I'll be bringing that up too.......

laurapeach

Shaun_Hobbs said:

SussexAndy said:

Username_removed 

Going by the comments being made here by Shaun about his personal case, and admitting we are all 3rd parties here to the tribunal and basing our responses on his information alone.   I partially agree with your comment if there was a mess up with Shauns bundle then there could be a potential negligence claim.  Although from what he has also indicated there could still remain the Rights to a Fair Trial issue. 

Enthuses on COULD 

in either case Shaun should be able to qualify for legal aid and he really needs to seek legal advice.   I think we can all agree on that and hope that he has gained some useful insight 

Hmm,i followed your tip about legal aid submitted my details to the gov.com site
and found i qualified and it then gave me the number of a place,ill ring on tuesday
morning when i visit DIAL in the town.

If anyone else wants it here it is.

Third Floor
Kingsley House
37-39 Balmoral Road Gillingham ME7 4PF

Helpline: 01634 383 760

Thanks Andy,this extends to others who offered sensible advice.

All of this is pointless though if you don't fit the descriptors for getting PIP. If you can walk more than 200 metres at any time you won't be entitled to the moving around part of the mobility section, even if it was advised by a doctor to do it. The fact you can do it would mean you wouldn't get it. Do you need help getting to places you know or don't know? That could be in the form of an assistance dog or another person. Do you get distressed by having to leave your home? If you're okay leaving your home and getting to places on your own then you also wouldn't be entitled to the planning a journey portion of the mobility component.

For the daily living part, can you cook unaided, or shower unaided? If you can't, what aids do you use?

Like I said before the dwp don't look at your diagnosis, they look at how the condition actually affects you. I've got chronic fatigue syndrome myself, but everyone with it is affected differently which is why they don't give you PIP purely based on diagnosis. I'm on the moderate/severe scale of the condition but there are others who can lead normal lives, and others who have to stay in a dark room in their bed 24/7. It wouldn't be fair to give the person leading a normal life the PIP as they would not need the extra money to get through their day. Whereas someone like myself, who has to pay extra to get someone to clean my home, look after my daughter and get food delivered would need the extra money to help me day to day. 

SussexAndy

Shaun_HobbsUsername_removed 

Firstly shaun I am glad that you had qualified, you should be able to know get sound one to one legal advise and be able to discuss your claim / tribunal in full.     If anything it will put your mind at ease. 

Secondly,   Mike has given you the UT1 information.  This is vital should you want to take your case to the Upper Tribunal, please don`t ignore his advice. 

We are here to help each other and from my own experience its is better to have plans and options in place as well as having a plan A, B and C.  

Only you know the details of your case  what went wrong and what you hopped to achieve.   

I do however share the comments made about the mobility aspect - but I do not know you or your full story, I assume that there is more to it.  But lets draw a line under it now 

All the best