PIP appeal problem

bubster20

If you’re looking for legal advice,  a public forum isn’t where I’d start! That aside....

When Mike stated “MD” I’m  pretty certain he was using the initials for macular degeneration.....not referring to an alternative term for a GP etc.  It might be an idea to for you to also “read it again” ?

You should be able to get a copy of the note or any other part of the papers from the DWP submission by contacting them.  

Finally, whilst I appreciate you are obviously annoyed with the situation, it’s easy to just be nice....especially when asking for help ?!

Shaun_Hobbs

laurapeach said:

What explanation was written on the back of the piece of paper?

The back was originally the front,if that makes sense.

The gym has five machines,they are as such

1 walking machine.

1 recumbent bicycle.

1 upright bicycle.

1 rowing machine.

1 cross trainer.

Side 1.(front)

I can only use four of the five,i have two herniated discs and the cross trainers action going up and down  makes it incredibly painful to use,the recumbent i can use very briefly and the other three i can use for short periods,normally under a mile.

The HUB at Cluny where the gym is situated is 65m from my house and is open five
days a week however they have a very busy schedule and many differing groups use
the main building and the gym cannot be used on many days as it is in an adjoining
room and may disturb other users,i have a sleep disorder and rarely get more than
one hour sleep at night and rest in the morning so i am limited to using the machines
on two of the afternoons and one morning if i feel strong enough or rise in time,for
use of the machines see overleaf.

Side 2. (back)

I can walk about one mile

I can ride about one mile 

I can ride about one mile

I can row about one mile

The paper i was shown in court just had only side two and on the reverse someone
had written  something i could not see or read and a date claimed by the judge to
be 2019,i used this piece of paper because my writing had deteriorated to the point
of being illegible and as the description explained what was written overleaf i
thought it was reasonable to submit it,the paper was obviously written prior to my
second stroke in 2018 when my writting was poor but legible

The HUB team are willing to provide evidence to the veracity of my use of the
machines.as the above was not written by me and was dictated to and written by a
member of the HUB staff and the DLA have the original,i cannot be totally precise
of the wording but this is an approximation,perhaps this explains my need to get
the altered copy back.

Topkitten

Sometimes I wonder why I come here and this is a prime example. Someone expresses a personal opinion, which everyone has a right to do and, if someone else disagrees then it becomes a "who's more important" string of disagreements. Sometimes I just want to say "Behave children!".

No one should be frightened to express their opinion and if people disagree violently they should either skip to the next post without commenting or block and / or report something they believe to be inflammatory and leave it up to the mods to decide.

Mike is right about one thing though, other people should not volunteer people into commenting except by posting to that persons wall "I'd appreciate it if you would check out this post" and leave it to the person to decide whether they are busy elsewhere or not. Pressure should never be applied to others to comment.

We all have differing views and needs, use intelligence to sort things out and not inflammatory speeches.

Anyone dislikes my comments use my wall, not this post to say so.

TK

bubster20

I don’t dislike your post Topkitten but I do disagree with some of it.  The OP didn’t just express an opinion, he asked for advice.  The fact is he didn’t like the advice given ??‍♀️.  

I’m new on scope and even just in the month I’ve spent reading through hundreds of posts I can see that is a common theme. People seem to become confrontational when it’s not as they expect to hear.  It took me that month to pluck plus the courage to post and that is exactly why!! It’s a shame because there is such a wealth of information available on here and if I took your suggestion of skipping posts then sadly that wouldn’t be uncommon ?.  

Ps.  I as I said, didn’t dislike your post so assumed ok to comment and also, being new, I have zero clue what the “wall” is or how to find it, sorry ?

SussexAndy

Hey Shaun 

Sounds to me that you were not given a fair trial.   Article 6 of the Human Rights Act, covers both Criminal, Civil and tribunal proceedings.   https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-6-right-fair-trial

Being that your situation may well be a Human Rights violation you should be able to get full funding for a solicitor.   Tell the CAB to do one and seek legal Aid.  Then find yourself a Human Rights specialist.   

You should get quick results from that.


All the best 
Andy

Topkitten

@bubster20, I have no objection to being criticized, I would just prefer it not to derail any thread. You access the wall by clicking on someone's name and there is an option there to add comments.

I've nothing further to say on this thread/

TK

Shaun_Hobbs

Topkitten said:

When I first tried getting DLA I had some issues because I filled the form in myself and did it incorrectly. I was refused but appealed. When I attended I had a better idea of what I should have put but was advised not to change it, I lost the appeal. I tried again about a year later with the help of someone from MIND but again was refused. I appealed again and it turned out the woman hadn't written what I had said and it got refused again by exactly the same judge and accompanying professionals, which isn't supposed to happen. Another year went by before I tried again and this time I had the help from someone at the CAB and she did a better job but still I only got low rate mobility and I appealed again and lo and behold I got the same judge for a third time. This judge refuse d me and took away what I did have for the reason that "It isn't my job to give you a free car". I consulted with the lady from the CAB and we asked for a "Statement of Reasons". It was supposed to be sent within 6 weeks but took 3 months to actually get sent out. The lady from the CAB said there was nothing we could do. So I pointed out 5 outright lies in the statement and commented on another half dozen dubious points so she said she would get back to me. The next day she rang and had spoken with a Barrister friend who agreed with me. Consequently we applied to the High Court of Appeal and soon after that the judges decision was thrown out by the Clerk to the High Court (not the Court itself) as being non-factual and I was given a new appeal. This time I finally got a different judge and a successful appeal of High rate Mobility and Medium Rate Care backdated to the date of the third attempt (18 months). This also meant I could get ESA but they refused to backdate that at all, said it didn't apply or meet the demands of reasons to backdate.

Since then I have had to reapply for DLA once and switch to PIP. On both attempts I had a person from DWP visit me at home and fill the forms in for me. Both were successful because the people didn't just take my word for simple things but made me consider everything I automatically did without thinking, which also made things more difficult than even I considered.

I only applied at all the first time because when I asked my doctor if I was disabled he said "Yes, and you have been for about a year". The total time from start to finish was about 4 and a half years.

If I hadn't been able to understand and contest the Statement of Reasons or if the lady at the CAB hadn't had that friend I probably still wouldn't have got help.

The system is detestable and even worse now than it was then.

TK

'The system is detestable'

Agreed,and im glad you resolved the problem,.

The expert at Southend CAB is i believe,a plant,in the case that i won against
the DHSS she told me to drop the court case because i would not win and to make
a new claim,even more strange was the fact i had a letter from ATOS admitting
they caused the problem by cancelling my appointment,this time she wasted 3 months
before telling me to give up and make another new claim,she also said my money
would be back dated if i was granted PIP,however she failed to mention that that
only covered the benifit they awarded me,so if i only recieved Daily living i
would lose all the mobility for nearly 4 years.

Shaun_Hobbs

bubster20 said:

I don’t dislike your post Topkitten but I do disagree with some of it.  The OP didn’t just express an opinion, he asked for advice.  The fact is he didn’t like the advice given ??‍♀️.  

I’m new on scope and even just in the month I’ve spent reading through hundreds of posts I can see that is a common theme. People seem to become confrontational when it’s not as they expect to hear.  It took me that month to pluck plus the courage to post and that is exactly why!! It’s a shame because there is such a wealth of information available on here and if I took your suggestion of skipping posts then sadly that wouldn’t be uncommon ?.  

Ps.  I as I said, didn’t dislike your post so assumed ok to comment and also, being new, I have zero clue what the “wall” is or how to find it, sorry ?

'he didn’t like the advice given'

Pllease list any 'advice' he offered that had not previously been covered in any of the posts,clearly you are both wasting your valuable time here,move on.

Adrian_Scope

I’m going to state this clearly before another thread tumbles out of control: the discussion here may continue but only with civility. If the tone of this thread continues in the same vein, the thread will be closed.

It is okay to disagree but please remember to comment on the content of the post, rather than the poster.

Shaun_Hobbs

SussexAndy said:

Hey Shaun 

Sounds to me that you were not given a fair trial.   Article 6 of the Human Rights Act, covers both Criminal, Civil and tribunal proceedings.   https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-6-right-fair-trial

Being that your situation may well be a Human Rights violation you should be able to get full funding for a solicitor.   Tell the CAB to do one and seek legal Aid.  Then find yourself a Human Rights specialist.   

You should get quick results from that.


All the best 
Andy

I would but my evidence has been locked up in their Southend office since the 20th of march,the

note the judge used in court was not in my bundle from HM Courts & Tribunals and they want to

see it too,i phoned them on 25th March 2020 and they were furious,the guy told me he had my

files in front of him and Mrs B at the CAB had made no contact with them whatsoever and the

letter she had sent me dated 25th March was total nonsense,they want to see that letter too,but

i have had no access to a scanner sinse the HUB shut on the 26th March,he recommended i need

to get the files back and get representation and legal advice,to be honest i cant fault HM Courts &

Tribunals they have been really helpful,it was the 'expert' at CAB who caused the problems.

I came here hoping someone could recommend a good legal team and advice on how to get my

papers back,iv been going to the CAB office for months and phoning weekly and even wrote a

letter (email) to the CAB main office in july asking for them to return the papers and have had

no reply or answers to anything.

poppy123456

Start here https://advicelocal.uk/

Shaun_Hobbs

bubster20 said:

If you’re looking for legal advice,  a public forum isn’t where I’d start! That aside....

When Mike stated “MD” I’m  pretty certain he was using the initials for macular degeneration.....not referring to an alternative term for a GP etc.  It might be an idea to for you to also “read it again” ?

You should be able to get a copy of the note or any other part of the papers from the DWP submission by contacting them.  

Finally, whilst I appreciate you are obviously annoyed with the situation, it’s easy to just be nice....especially when asking for help ?!

If the DWP were happy to produce a redacted letter (fraud) to a lower court without
giving the HM Courts & Tribunals notice or a copy i doubt they would send the original
back to the very person who would in all likelihood be giving it straight to the Upper
Court as evidence of that fraud.


And here you seriously suggest they would provide evidence against themselves?

'obviously annoyed'

Unlikely,not faced with that level of argument 

Shaun_Hobbs

poppy123456 said:

Start here https://advicelocal.uk/

Hmm,it directed me to the CAB.

Thanks for trying though.

SussexAndy

If I was in your position I would start at the front of the bread trail.  Go back to CAB and seek one of the following:

Ask for your original evidence back or copies of it.
Ask for copies of any other information that they have received from any other 3rd party. 
Ask for a brief statement to why they are unable to provide this information to you.  I find the use of a Pre-Written tick box high beneficial in the past.  All they need to do is tick a statement which best describes the situation.   IE.   You can create a statement with a tick box stating Information sort has been lost / cannot be found.   and Source of information and who to contact leaving a little space. 


If they are unable to provide you with the evidence, the source, and or no copies are available then there is no case against you.  Although the same can be said the other way around as your technically the injured party the burden of prove is on them and not you. 


All you need to do is prove that you have done everything you can in your power to obtain the documents.  DWP for one has to legally hold all records in your case for several years possibly life as they are the DWP.   Similar to medical records


I would also suggest that you look at the online assessment and be truthful to yourself when completing.  
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test 


The list of equipment which they state you have used may well be accurate or may not be.  In your own admission you say you can use 4 out of 5 machines to some level of degree.   I wish that I could use a single one of them but I cant.   Pip is intended as an additional payment to help with daily difficulties although you might not meet the criteria you may meet the criteria of other benefits.     A benefits advisor may assist you.  but your get a lot of up-to-date information from that site above to help you


All the best 

Andy

SussexAndy

Username_removed 

Going by the comments being made here by Shaun about his personal case, and admitting we are all 3rd parties here to the tribunal and basing our responses on his information alone.   I partially agree with your comment if there was a mess up with Shauns bundle then there could be a potential negligence claim.  Although from what he has also indicated there could still remain the Rights to a Fair Trial issue. 

Enthuses on COULD 

in either case Shaun should be able to qualify for legal aid and he really needs to seek legal advice.   I think we can all agree on that and hope that he has gained some useful insight 

SussexAndy

Username_removed  I never claimed to be an expert in law and maybe you should have led with that.   My advise was based on the Could (not a definite) and to seek further information and legal advice. 

I have to agree that the UT1 form is the best way forward for Shaun.  However he commented that he has trouble with these forms and needs help to complete them.  His local CAB has let him down.  

So what would your advice be, if he cannot like most of us afford legal advice, have someone who can fill in these forms and to prepare for an Upper Tribunal of which you need to prove that your case has merit in the first place for the court to consider the application.

Our legal system is not perfect, it is also driven by both Common Law and Parliamentary law.  The Human Rights elements do play a considerable rule in shaping our laws.  If Shaun is correct that his documents have been tampered with then there MAY be an issue, be it Human Rights or Civil procedures etc. 

Shaun should be exploring all avenues and deciding what is the right avenue or avenues as he may need to call on more then one option depending on the facts of his case.  Furthermore there is no harm in at least trying to apply for legal aid which will save him a considerable amount of stress if he is successful.   

I dont feel that I have given any bad advice - but I will say that the UT1 form is the only way forward.  What support he can get depends on what he applies for.   

Shaun_Hobbs

SussexAndy said:

If I was in your position I would start at the front of the bread trail.  Go back to CAB and seek one of the following:

Ask for your original evidence back or copies of it.
Ask for copies of any other information that they have received from any other 3rd party. 
Ask for a brief statement to why they are unable to provide this information to you.  I find the use of a Pre-Written tick box high beneficial in the past.  All they need to do is tick a statement which best describes the situation.   IE.   You can create a statement with a tick box stating Information sort has been lost / cannot be found.   and Source of information and who to contact leaving a little space. 


If they are unable to provide you with the evidence, the source, and or no copies are available then there is no case against you.  Although the same can be said the other way around as your technically the injured party the burden of prove is on them and not you. 


All you need to do is prove that you have done everything you can in your power to obtain the documents.  DWP for one has to legally hold all records in your case for several years possibly life as they are the DWP.   Similar to medical records


I would also suggest that you look at the online assessment and be truthful to yourself when completing.  
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test 


The list of equipment which they state you have used may well be accurate or may not be.  In your own admission you say you can use 4 out of 5 machines to some level of degree.   I wish that I could use a single one of them but I cant.   Pip is intended as an additional payment to help with daily difficulties although you might not meet the criteria you may meet the criteria of other benefits.     A benefits advisor may assist you.  but your get a lot of up-to-date information from that site above to help you


All the best 

Andy

1:The CAB office has been shut since the 20th march 2020..my paperwork is inside their office.

2 They do not answer calls or emails or visits to the office.

3 To ask for a brief statement requires you actually see or communicate with a person..see above.

The photo taken by me shows the equipment  in the order on the note,has been used for two years

by the HUB team on their web site and is in their window now,i was told to use the equipment by my

GP to build up my strength in my legs after my stroke as i kept falling over.

SussexAndy

Hi Shaun 

Username_removed maybe the best person to direct your questions.  From a legal stand point he may well have a solution in order for you to get your information back from the CAB. 

I would make sure that the courts are fully aware of your situation, keep records, copies of letters and to opt to send them by email as you will also have a digital signature. 

Make sure in your correspondence that you highlight that these are unprecedented times due to Covid-19, that you do not have usual access which has slowed the processes and that you are without legal representation.  These are all important facts that needs to be recorded in your correspondence. 

all the best and I hope you get things sorted out ASAP 

Shaun_Hobbs

SussexAndy said:

Username_removed 

Going by the comments being made here by Shaun about his personal case, and admitting we are all 3rd parties here to the tribunal and basing our responses on his information alone.   I partially agree with your comment if there was a mess up with Shauns bundle then there could be a potential negligence claim.  Although from what he has also indicated there could still remain the Rights to a Fair Trial issue. 

Enthuses on COULD 

in either case Shaun should be able to qualify for legal aid and he really needs to seek legal advice.   I think we can all agree on that and hope that he has gained some useful insight 

Hmm,i followed your tip about legal aid submitted my details to the gov.com site
and found i qualified and it then gave me the number of a place,ill ring on tuesday
morning when i visit DIAL in the town.

If anyone else wants it here it is.

Third Floor
Kingsley House
37-39 Balmoral Road Gillingham ME7 4PF

Helpline: 01634 383 760

Thanks Andy,this extends to others who offered sensible advice.

atlas47

Hi

I think this thread is going beyond the bounds of our Scope community so I have flagged it up, for mods to consider.

Please stay safe and kind.

We are all going through a dreadful period of our lifetime.

Best wishes