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poppy123456 said: I'm assuming you were previously claiming PIP and this was a review? When you filled out the form did you put as much relevant information as possible about how your conditions affect you?
ryan123 said: This was my experience applying for PIP (btw, i was successful!). My mental health issues have been ongoing for nearly 15 years (10 of which unemployed). I am agoraphobic (but able to cope, just about, with being outdoors) but get bad anxiety when outside. That is why i receive ESA and PIP. Obviously, this is a difficult one to prove. I used to get DLA in the early days, say 9-10 years ago, then suddenly it was cut (after maybe 18-24 months). I called them to ask why and i spoke to an incredibly unhelpful woman who told me i was no longer entitled to DLA and i needed to apply for PIP. Literally no letter, no warning, i only knew because i checked my bank online. When i asked why, and asked to speak to a manager to ask why i am not entitled to just be switched from DLA to PIP (especially since i was cut off with no warning), but i just kept getting, "DLA isn't the same as PIP... you need to inform me what your complaint is about". Anyway, i gave up. I wasn't in the frame of mind for a battle back then. Fast forward to today, and i'm much more game for a fight. So, i decided to apply for PIP in 2019. I received ZERO points. The lady who assessed me seemed oh so very attentive and happy to hear about my issues. Clearly a very kind-hearted person. The answers to my form suggested not so much. Basically, i'm a malingerer with no desire to work and who has imagined it all. So, i challenged that, brought into question her ability to make such statements - an occupational therapist cannot do such a diagnosis (check the Royal College of Occupational Therapists website for what an OT actually is supposed to do) - and countered with some other stuff. Then came the next letter from her boss saying he agreed with her decision etc. (Which part of this is the MR, i'm not entirely sure, but i know i received around 3 rejection letters). So, i prepared to take them to a tribunal. I did my research on cases that had won in court before. I did my research on what an OT can do (definitely not diagnose people as essentially imagining their illness). I did my research on scandals within the DWP. I think my entire case was about 100 pages long. At the tribunal, they asked me every question i expected to be asked, e.g. "you say you can't walk very far, but if i asked you to walk around this table for 10 minutes, could you do it?". "Of course", i replied, "My illness restricts my ability to function normally and to walk by crippling me with anxiety the further away from my home or car that i get. I don't have a debilitating leg injury and have never claimed to". In the end, i won. I don't know if anybody can win by putting in less hours, but i made sure i covered everything. I went alone. I rang ahead and *told them* (didn't ask) i would be parking literally outside the door (just on the grass basically). I rejected their initial venue as there was no parking anywhere nearby. I told them to review my case and tell me who decided to have the tribunal in such a ridiculous venue. They changed it. If you need any help with some of the arguments i made, i can send you some. For me, the key is to be honest, consistent, and knowledgeable. 'Honest' might seem obvious - after all, i don't doubt 99.9999% of disability claimants are honest - but more to the point, it's imperative to not get muddled up. When i've been asked, "You say you can't walk very far, but you walked in from the carpark" etc, i'm not going to trip up on my own shoelaces. I know exactly what i've said on every form.
mdowney86 said: ryan123 said: This was my experience applying for PIP (btw, i was successful!). My mental health issues have been ongoing for nearly 15 years (10 of which unemployed). I am agoraphobic (but able to cope, just about, with being outdoors) but get bad anxiety when outside. That is why i receive ESA and PIP. Obviously, this is a difficult one to prove. I used to get DLA in the early days, say 9-10 years ago, then suddenly it was cut (after maybe 18-24 months). I called them to ask why and i spoke to an incredibly unhelpful woman who told me i was no longer entitled to DLA and i needed to apply for PIP. Literally no letter, no warning, i only knew because i checked my bank online. When i asked why, and asked to speak to a manager to ask why i am not entitled to just be switched from DLA to PIP (especially since i was cut off with no warning), but i just kept getting, "DLA isn't the same as PIP... you need to inform me what your complaint is about". Anyway, i gave up. I wasn't in the frame of mind for a battle back then. Fast forward to today, and i'm much more game for a fight. So, i decided to apply for PIP in 2019. I received ZERO points. The lady who assessed me seemed oh so very attentive and happy to hear about my issues. Clearly a very kind-hearted person. The answers to my form suggested not so much. Basically, i'm a malingerer with no desire to work and who has imagined it all. So, i challenged that, brought into question her ability to make such statements - an occupational therapist cannot do such a diagnosis (check the Royal College of Occupational Therapists website for what an OT actually is supposed to do) - and countered with some other stuff. Then came the next letter from her boss saying he agreed with her decision etc. (Which part of this is the MR, i'm not entirely sure, but i know i received around 3 rejection letters). So, i prepared to take them to a tribunal. I did my research on cases that had won in court before. I did my research on what an OT can do (definitely not diagnose people as essentially imagining their illness). I did my research on scandals within the DWP. I think my entire case was about 100 pages long. At the tribunal, they asked me every question i expected to be asked, e.g. "you say you can't walk very far, but if i asked you to walk around this table for 10 minutes, could you do it?". "Of course", i replied, "My illness restricts my ability to function normally and to walk by crippling me with anxiety the further away from my home or car that i get. I don't have a debilitating leg injury and have never claimed to". In the end, i won. I don't know if anybody can win by putting in less hours, but i made sure i covered everything. I went alone. I rang ahead and *told them* (didn't ask) i would be parking literally outside the door (just on the grass basically). I rejected their initial venue as there was no parking anywhere nearby. I told them to review my case and tell me who decided to have the tribunal in such a ridiculous venue. They changed it. If you need any help with some of the arguments i made, i can send you some. For me, the key is to be honest, consistent, and knowledgeable. 'Honest' might seem obvious - after all, i don't doubt 99.9999% of disability claimants are honest - but more to the point, it's imperative to not get muddled up. When i've been asked, "You say you can't walk very far, but you walked in from the carpark" etc, i'm not going to trip up on my own shoelaces. I know exactly what i've said on every form. Hi Ryan123 this was very helpful for me , I just got the letter for my mandatory decision and they awarded me no points , I'm going to appeal and I think the way you handled your appeal is how I should do it , would you please be able to help me with some of your research and what you done to win your appeal.
ryan123 said: mdowney86 said: ryan123 said: This was my experience applying for PIP (btw, i was successful!). My mental health issues have been ongoing for nearly 15 years (10 of which unemployed). I am agoraphobic (but able to cope, just about, with being outdoors) but get bad anxiety when outside. That is why i receive ESA and PIP. Obviously, this is a difficult one to prove. I used to get DLA in the early days, say 9-10 years ago, then suddenly it was cut (after maybe 18-24 months). I called them to ask why and i spoke to an incredibly unhelpful woman who told me i was no longer entitled to DLA and i needed to apply for PIP. Literally no letter, no warning, i only knew because i checked my bank online. When i asked why, and asked to speak to a manager to ask why i am not entitled to just be switched from DLA to PIP (especially since i was cut off with no warning), but i just kept getting, "DLA isn't the same as PIP... you need to inform me what your complaint is about". Anyway, i gave up. I wasn't in the frame of mind for a battle back then. Fast forward to today, and i'm much more game for a fight. So, i decided to apply for PIP in 2019. I received ZERO points. The lady who assessed me seemed oh so very attentive and happy to hear about my issues. Clearly a very kind-hearted person. The answers to my form suggested not so much. Basically, i'm a malingerer with no desire to work and who has imagined it all. So, i challenged that, brought into question her ability to make such statements - an occupational therapist cannot do such a diagnosis (check the Royal College of Occupational Therapists website for what an OT actually is supposed to do) - and countered with some other stuff. Then came the next letter from her boss saying he agreed with her decision etc. (Which part of this is the MR, i'm not entirely sure, but i know i received around 3 rejection letters). So, i prepared to take them to a tribunal. I did my research on cases that had won in court before. I did my research on what an OT can do (definitely not diagnose people as essentially imagining their illness). I did my research on scandals within the DWP. I think my entire case was about 100 pages long. At the tribunal, they asked me every question i expected to be asked, e.g. "you say you can't walk very far, but if i asked you to walk around this table for 10 minutes, could you do it?". "Of course", i replied, "My illness restricts my ability to function normally and to walk by crippling me with anxiety the further away from my home or car that i get. I don't have a debilitating leg injury and have never claimed to". In the end, i won. I don't know if anybody can win by putting in less hours, but i made sure i covered everything. I went alone. I rang ahead and *told them* (didn't ask) i would be parking literally outside the door (just on the grass basically). I rejected their initial venue as there was no parking anywhere nearby. I told them to review my case and tell me who decided to have the tribunal in such a ridiculous venue. They changed it. If you need any help with some of the arguments i made, i can send you some. For me, the key is to be honest, consistent, and knowledgeable. 'Honest' might seem obvious - after all, i don't doubt 99.9999% of disability claimants are honest - but more to the point, it's imperative to not get muddled up. When i've been asked, "You say you can't walk very far, but you walked in from the carpark" etc, i'm not going to trip up on my own shoelaces. I know exactly what i've said on every form. Hi Ryan123 this was very helpful for me , I just got the letter for my mandatory decision and they awarded me no points , I'm going to appeal and I think the way you handled your appeal is how I should do it , would you please be able to help me with some of your research and what you done to win your appeal. The basic order of the application goes like this:1 - We reject your application. 2 - Mandatory reconsideration, where you counter all of the nonsense they wrote about you. 3 - Somebody higher up than the person who did your assessment then counters you and backs the person who did your assessment. 4 - You then write a 'grounds for appeal' letter, appealing everything. 5 - I was then sent a letter inviting me to a tribunal and i wrote yet another letter just countering anything else they said in their last letter and including any other useful information i'd researched. This is what my PIP application basically looked like:1 - They scored me zero points and basically said there was nothing wrong with me. 2 - I countered all of the things they said that were false. Examples: - They said i can 'mix with people...and engage with people unaided'. This is probably because i said things like i see a close friend nearby every week and we might go to a cafe or whatever. This, for them, gives them ammunition to attack my claim that i'm 'agoraphobic' and 'anxious'. They conveniently leave out the bit about me having a disabled badge, parking within about 20 metres of the cafe, and only going to the same places all the time. They also didn't consider that my parents live abroad and i haven't visited their home abroad for nearly 15 years! Not exactly engaging with people unaided. - They said i could 'plan and follow a journey unaided'. Well, actually, i can drive down motorways and stuff more easily nowadays, but i still don't walk anywhere (i.e. i'll stop car and walk about 30 metres or so from car then i get anxious). So, my journeys are planned meticulously: i use a satnav, i Google map the building/home i'm going to, i look for parking situations etc. I wouldn't call that 'planning and following a journey unaided'.- They said i can move around unaided more than 200m. Well, i haven't walked that kind of distance for a decade! So, no. - They said my 'mental examination showed that you have adequate memory, concentration and intellect'. I attacked them hard here. Is this suggesting only dumb people can have mental health issues? What's all this 'intellect' business about? I also informed them that i have a degree in psychology: 'mental examination'...? The woman is an occupational therapist: they DO NOT have the right to be performing 'mental examinations'. Big, big, naughty! Imagine i tried to pass myself off as a mechanic and did somebody's MOT for £25. That would be a criminal offence. and so on...3 - The person higher up countered all my points saying things like, 'i'm confident staff member X is qualified to do this... etc'. 4 - I began my grounds for appeal by slating the member of staff because, as stated, an occupational therapist has no right to make such claims. It's obvious occupational therapists are just a cheaper way of doing these assessments, as opposed to hiring more expensive clinical psychologists (who are allowed to make such diagnoses). As i wrote in my earlier post, you can find out what an occupational therapist's duties are by looking at the Royal College of Occupational Therapists website. - I then gave an outline of my mental health history and how it's affected me over time. - I then examined the initial assessment report written about me by the occupational therapist. I received this in the post after calling them and asking for a copy (you're entitled to a copy). I replied to everything that was wrong. For example, she talked of my 'mental state' (again, no right to do so as an occupational therapist), my appearance, that i didn't look anxious, planning journeys etc. 5 - After receiving a date for the tribunal, i did some further research.For example, i wrote that 'PIP policy has discriminated against people with mental health issues' and '...from Mental Health & Money Advice website: “Regulations introduced by the Government in March 2017 meant people unable to travel independently on the grounds of psychological distress - rather than other conditions - were not entitled to the enhanced mobility rate of the benefit."'Also: "in December 2017 a disabled person with mental health support needs challenged the changes the government made to PIP in March 2017 in the case RF v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. I quote you the following from the Disability Justice Project: “According to the government’s own estimates, these changes [in March 2017] prevent 164,000 people who cannot plan and follow a journey due to psychological distress from qualifying for higher rates of this benefit or qualifying at all. The Public Law Project, who represented RF, argued in court that the changes are discriminatory and unlawful because they go against original policy intent of PIP. The judge said those regulations are discriminatory against Disabled people with mental health support needs. He said that the true reason for this change in regulation was to save money; plainly if money was no object the measure would not have been passed. In the judge’s view this is not sufficiently important to justify discrimination.” High Court judge Mr Justice Mostyn also said “The wish to save nearly one billion a year at the expense of those with mental health impairments is not a reasonable foundation for passing this measure.”Obviously, i did my research very thoroughly. These are key rulings: courts going against government legislation. - I then go on to reject their claims against me as they are 'unqualified' to be making such claims. As i said, i'm not a mechanic and it would be illegal for me to parade as one. Well, these people are not clinical psychologists. At my last assessment, i had an upgrade: this time, a 'mental health nurse'. I don't care. A mental health nurse is still not a clinical psychologist. These are just fancy terms to make you feel they're qualified to do the job: they're not. I laid out a full list of occupational therapist job roles from the aforementioned website. - Finally, i criticised the government's tax discrepancy that could be in part because X, Y, Z companies have paid no tax (example: 'Atos and G4S paid no corporation tax in 2012 despite carrying out £2 billion of taxpayer work') and that, 'High Court judge Mr Justice Mostyn rightly said regarding the government wanting to save money at the expense of disabled people, perhaps the government should consider saving money in other ways'. In other words, get some money back from these tax-dodging companies and leave the disabled alone. It takes a while to achieve, but it's all the more satisfying when you win.
mdowney86 said: I'm wondering at the tribunal do they let you run through how your disability affects you throughly ?
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