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Parents esa + pip

tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
Hi guys, totally new to all this benefit stuff but hoping someone can help!

My dad currently gets ir ESA support group. My mum was received dla and income support but was told she had to apply for ESA. She did but when she went for the work activity meetings the man said he’s got no idea why they’ve sent her As she’s clearly not fit for work and that she’d be better off going onto my dads claim.

she is now in receipt of Pip with standard rate daily living and high rate mobility. They get help with housing benefit and council tax.

im wondering why my mum was advised to go onto my dads claim and does that make her a joint claimant? Also, is there anything else they should be getting as they really struggle! 

I’ve checked my dads national insurance contributions and he has full credits paid for years. Could he get cb ESA too or am I totally confused!, 

thanks I’m advance  :)
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Replies

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    This is very confusing. Assuming mum and dad are living together then If your dad’s ESA claim is income based your mum should already be taken into account on it and should not have been getting IS.

    If she is on the ESA claim that doesn’t make her a joint claimant, it just means she is taken into account. Your dad gets Class 1 NI credits from the ESA claim, your mum will not. Your mum can apply for ESA in order to have the WCA and if found to have a LCW she then gets NI credits because she has LCW. These count towards her future State Pension.

    Did she get a WCA decision?

    There are some options for increasing their income.
    Do you think your dad might be eligible for PIP too? if he might be he could apply for that.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/

    He could apply for Carer’s Allowance for looking after mum. This would increase his benefit income by £37.50/week. However he should not do this if he is going to try for PIP because if he was awarded Daily Living PIP this would increase his ESA also (by more than £37.50) if they are the only two adults in the house.

    I suggest you have a look at the make up of your dad’s ESA claim to clarify how it is made up. A bit more detail about their circumstances would help in providing relevant advice.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Thank you for your reply.

    I'm going by what my parents have told me but they don't really seem to know the full facts or situation! And can't remember dates etc.

    So I'm going to go through their letters and piece the timeline and amounts together myself and will report back. 

    Just another note that my dad is due to reach state pension age in July, I'm not sure if that altered anything!
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    tanya189 said: .. my dad is due to reach state pension age in July, I'm not sure if that altered anything!
    Yes it does, makes a big change. 

    His ESA will stop when he reaches pension age and he will get his State Pension. Assuming mum is younger than dad they become a mixed age couple (MAC) and Housing Benefit will also end (unless your mum is getting a means tested benefit) and they may both need to claim Universal Credit. If so they should claim UC before he reaches pension age in order to get his work capability assessment status carried over- otherwise he will have to have another Work Capability Assessment.

    Really important to confirm exactly what their current benefits are in order to determine correct course of action. Do also look at whether PIP is applicable for dad. Once he reaches pension age he will not be able to make a new claim for PIP - but could claim Attendance Allowance if applicable (but the way this is assessed is different).

    One way to confirm what they are currently getting is to look at their bank statements if you have access to them. Payments from DWP usually indicate what benefit is being paid.

    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener

    So from what I can tell so far. Mum got incapacity which they fazed out and turned into esa. Was told she had limited work capability. Went to the job centre. Was told by the man that he doesn’t know why she’s there as she just shouldn’t be so better for her husband to claim for her.  She was advised that money would be a bit less but would pay less rent than they were currently paying. But mum wouldn’t have to keep going to the job centre


    Dad claimed Carers allowance for a while when mum got high rate care dla but that was reduced to middle rate care. This was when I  was still at school around 2005. They received Income support when we were kids.


    Dad claimed esa because of his health.  Went to some work assessment things then was put into support group. 

    Mum was given  pip when phased out DLA, she receives standard rate daily living and high rate mobility. They also receive some Housing benefit and help with council tax. 


    Thank you so much for replying to my messages and I’m sorry if these answers aren’t full enough. It all seems so complicated!

  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    That is obviously an old letter but it confirms an income based ESA amount with them both taken into account. Are there any deductions under the Income and Benefits heading?

    You say it is your father claiming so ESA will end when he reaches pension age. Had it been your mother claiming the ESA would have continued.

    We believe the current situation is:
    Dad receives ESA (Support Group)
    Mum receives PIP (SRDL and ERM)
    They get HB and CTR.

    Unfortunately it looks likely that you mum has not been getting NI credits from anything. It would probably be sensible for her to get a pension forecast which will also tell her how many more years of NI she needs to get.

    If this is correct the ESA and HB* will end when dad reaches pension age. (*There are a few exceptions in respect of HB ending, for example if they are in supported accommodation.) Mum’s PIP is not affected.

    Do you have any thoughts about whether dad might qualify for PIP?

    Do you know if he has had a State Pension forecast and will he have any occupational pensions?

    It is likely they will be able to claim UC for extra income but this will depend on what his income will be. As previously mentioned, if they are going to claim UC they should do so before he reaches pension age. If claiming UC mum will get NI credits. 

    UC would include standard allowance, LCWRA for dad and help with rent. He should also say he cares for mum. If mum gets a Fit Note she can have a Work Capability Assessment and if she is found to have a LCWRA she can get the LCWRA element instead of dad which will allow him to get the carer element.

    The amount of CTR they get may change depending on their other income/benefits.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    I've checked my dad's pension forecast which comes out at £175.46 a week. He has no other pension, income or savings
     
    I don't think my dad would get pip (I think he thought he'd just get his pension and wouldn't have any more assessments etc as they're pretty stressful! I know now it's not that simple!)

    I will check my mum's national insurance contribution tomorrow. 

    She's been out of work all her adult like due to disability, how does she get a fit note? Does she have an assessment etc. Does that effect pip?

    Sorry for all my questions!! You're amazing for everything you've explained so far, I'm so grateful!
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    Can you confirm that they are not in supported accommodation?
    tanya189 said: Mum got incapacity which they fazed out and turned into esa. Was told she had limited work capability. Went to the job centre. Was told by the man that he doesn’t know why she’s there as she just shouldn’t be so better for her husband to claim for her.  
    Mum will have got NI while on ESA (and I assume while in IB before that but IB is before my time so I’m not certain of that). Depending on how old she is now and how long it has been since she stopped getting ESA she may have a reasonable record.

    Unfortunately she will need to declare her health condition and go through a Work Capability Assessment when claiming UC, otherwise she will be expected to look for work. A Fit Note is obtained from the GP. 



    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    They're not in supported accommodation just a normal council house. 

    Mum's just turned 64 in January. 

    Is the work capability assessment a face to face thing? 

    I literally had 2 hours sleep last night and the night before worrying about this and trying to figure out what they're going to do! 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    At current rates the ESA award will be £180.50/week, plus Housing Benefit.

    If they apply for UC the maximum award (standard allowance plus LCWRA) will be £935.96/month equivalent to £215.99/week plus the housing element.

    The amount of the housing element should match the amount of Housing Benefit.

    If mum is later found to have LCWRA and dad gets the carer element the UC maximum amount will increase to £1,098.88 equivalent to £253.58/week plus housing element.

    The pension when in payment will be deducted from the UC.

    When UC is claimed the ESA and HB stop two weeks after the date of UC claim. The first UC payment is one month and one week from the date of claim and thereafter monthly. 

    Note that if they are having the Housing Benefit paid direct to their landlord with UC the payment will normally be made to them and they will be responsible for paying the landlord.

    Note also that all of the above are at current rates which include the £20 COVID uplift to UC and government have not yet confirmed whether this will be retained. Hopefully we will know on 3rd March.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    You are an absolute star!!

    Is there anyway she could be find capable for work? Her conditions haven't gotten any better and are only going to get worse as she gets older but worried they'll randomly decide she's ok!
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 21
    tanya189 said:
    You are an absolute star!!

    Is there anyway she could be find capable for work? Her conditions haven't gotten any better and are only going to get worse as she gets older but worried they'll randomly decide she's ok!
    As you will know from this community nothing is a dead certainty. I know nothing about your mum’s health conditions. However if she doesn’t have an assessment the default on UC is that people are treated as jobseekers.

    I should also qualify that what I have posted is obviously based on the information you have posted. You may want to double check everything with an advice agency if you have access to one.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Thank you I will do and ill check my mum's NI contributions too.

    Thank you so much for all the advice, I'll get someone to double check but you've made me feel much less stressed about it!! 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,998

    Scope community team

    I'm so glad @calcotti has been able to help you with this @tanya189, and it's great you're trying to get this organised for your parents. 
    It's definitely worth looking at your mum's NI contributions. Her IB and ESA should have made them, and unless she had an assessment finding her 'fit for work' it could be that she still has a 'credits only' claim hovering somewhere. 

    I know Calcotti has already mentioned, but to reiterate, it's really important if your parents do decide to claim UC that they do so before your dad hits state pension age so that his ESA award can be transferred over. 

    Best of luck and please let us know if you have any further questions. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Thank you so much. You've both been so kind. I'm planning to get some extra details from my mum tonight and get straight to finding out her national insurance forecast.

    People keep mentioning to me something about a severe disability premium, I'm a bit confused what that is or if it applies here!

    Thanks
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited February 23
    tanya189 said: People keep mentioning to me something about a severe disability premium, I'm a bit confused what that is or if it applies here!
    SDP is extra money that would be included in the ESA award if both your parents got a relevant disability benefit. Your dad doesn’t gets a disability benefit so SDP is not applicable.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Ah ok thank you for clearing that up!!
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    We're so confused! My parents have just received these letters. If anyone could help that'd be amazing because.im not sure what to do yet and my mum is panicking
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    She's so concerned she'll have to pay council tax and fill rent once my dad gets a pension
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited May 14
    The first letter is just the annual letter confirming changes to benefits rates. I’m not sure why it shows a different rate from 3rd July - wouldn’t worry about that it’s probably just a bit of DWP letter writing nonsense.

    The second letter confirms what has already been advised earlier in this thread (in February), Housing Benefit will end when he reaches pension age.

    The advice I gave previously was that they may be entitled to could claim Universal Credit and that if they intend to do so they should do it before he reaches pension age. However I also recommended you check with a local advice agency if you can because I may not have all the relevant information.

    (Not crucial at this point but did you manage to check your mum’s Ni record/pension forecast?)


    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Ah ok thank you. Sorry if I asked a daft question. I'm trying to put their minds at ease but want to make sure I'm telling them the right things. 
    Is there a reason they wouldn't be able to claim universal credit? 
    I'm trying to get an appointment with citizens advice 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    tanya189 said:
    Is there a reason they wouldn't be able to claim universal credit? 
    They obviously don’t have savings that would exclude them, so no.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    You are amazing. Is it just me or are benefits really confusing 🤔
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    Yes, benefits are very confusing.

    I would also look into Pension Credits for your Dad for when he starts to get State Pension. This is a separate payment to top up State Pension, and can also help towards Dental, NHS costs and HB and CTR. I don't know if I am allowed to put links on the forum, but you can find all the info on the gov.uk website

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited May 14
    Sammy6 said:
    I would also look into Pension Credits for your Dad for when he starts to get State Pension. This is a separate payment to top up State Pension, and can also help towards Dental, NHS costs and HB and CTR. 
    This advice is incorrect. Dad cannot claim Pension Credit because mum is below pension age which means that they are a ‘mixed age couple’ (MAC). Since May 2019 MACs are not permitted to claim Pension Credit but can claim UC as advised throughout this thread.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited May 14
    Tanya, just want to remind you of a few points mentioned earlier for when your parents decide to claim UC
    • your mum should get a Fit Note from her GP to support the claim
    • when they claim she should declare her health condition and provide details of the Fit Note
    • dad should declare that he looks after mum
    Provided they claim before dad reaches pension age his ESA Support Group status will transfer across as UC LCWRA.

    Initially the UC maximum amount will include the standard couple allowance, LCWRA element (for dad) and housing element.

    If, after a Work Capability Assessment, mum is found to have LCWRA she can have the LCWRA element, in which case dad can no longer have it but can have the carer element instead.

    Dad’s pensioner income will be deducted in full when calculating the amount of UC actually payable.

    Because ESA and HB can run on for 2 weeks after a UC claim it makes sense to claim at least two weeks before dad reaches pension age to take advantage of effectively getting paid twice for the two week overlap.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    Is your dad expecting to receive any occupational or privately pensions? If he is these will also be take notice into account in full.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Listener
    calcotti said:
    Sammy6 said:
    I would also look into Pension Credits for your Dad for when he starts to get State Pension. This is a separate payment to top up State Pension, and can also help towards Dental, NHS costs and HB and CTR. 
    This advice is incorrect. Dad cannot claim Pension Credit because mum is below pension age which means that they are a ‘mixed age couple’ (MAC). Since May 2019 MACs are not permitted to claim Pension Credit but can claim UC as advised throughout this thread.
    All I said was look into it.....
    Excuse me for trying  
    I'm out of here
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,129 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Sammy6 - I believe you had the best of intentions, but, for the better good of our members, incorrect info is addressed. I have inadvertently given incorrect info, which calcotti has addreessed; I try & learn from this however. Don't take offence, where none was intended.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    Sammy6 said: Excuse me for trying  I'm out of here
    As you said yourself, Benefits are confusing. There have also been a lot of changes in recent years. I have posted incorrect information myself which other sources have been able to correct. No offence is intended.

    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    So I’m about to apply for their UC now. My dad does care for my mum particularly as her condition has recently worsened and she is awaiting an X-ray and investigation. 
    Will they think it weird that he gets esa for his health conditions but also cares for her? It is what happens but I’m worried they’ll think that’s not possible and he’ll get in trouble somehow.

    also the Dr said they don’t give fit notes for people that aren’t working and she hadn’t worked for years and years. Does this sound odd?
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Also, does it matter whose name I apply in??
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    tanya189 said:
    Will they think it weird that he gets esa for his health conditions but also cares for her? 
    People can have difficulties themselves but still care for others. Obviously if he has a bad back it is not consistent to say he lifts her in and out of the bath but if he can’t bend to tie his own shoe laces it wouldn’t be perfectly possible for him to tie hers if she sits part way up the stairs while he stays at the bottom.

    Caring can be just keeping an eye on to make sure somebody is safe.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited June 15
    tanya189 said:
    Also, does it matter whose name I apply in??
    No. You will have to make two claims. One will be the lead claimant and when they say they have a partner they will be issued with a linking code. When the second claimant says they have a partner they will be asked if they have a linking code. They enter the code and this joins the second claim to the first one. The second claimant will then have fewer questions to answer because they first claimant will already have provided the information.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    So I’ve done the application and need to add the fit note. Having finally gotten through to my parents surgery, from being number 42 in the queue, they are saying because my mum hasn’t worked for 30+ years and her conditions or inability to work have no end date (it’ll actually get worse) they can’t provide a note! Is this correct?
  • tanya189tanya189 Member Posts: 18 Listener
    Guys, I’m struggling to get an answer elsewhere. Will my parents still have to pay ‘bedroom tax’ once my dad reaches pension age?
  • Tori_ScopeTori_Scope Posts: 5,002

    Scope community team

    Hi @tanya189 :) According to Disability Rights UK:
    The bedroom tax applies if you are of working age and renting from a local authority, a registered housing association or other registered social landlord.

    Working age means anyone between the age of 16 and pension age. You may be affected by the bedroom tax if you are a member of a couple and just one of you has reached pension age; you are not affected if you have both reached pension age. 

    Sorry that your other question was missed- have you managed to sort this now?

    Online Community Coordinator, she/her

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  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,174 Pioneering
    edited July 2
    tanya189 said:
    So I’ve done the application and need to add the fit note. Having finally gotten through to my parents surgery, from being number 42 in the queue, they are saying because my mum hasn’t worked for 30+ years and her conditions or inability to work have no end date (it’ll actually get worse) they can’t provide a note! Is this correct?
    No, they should  provide a Fit Note - unless they think she is Fit for Work. Explain to them why it is needed. You need to be able to report the Fit Note details to UC within 7 days of making the claim.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
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