Parents esa + pip — Scope | Disability forum
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Parents esa + pip

tanya189
tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
Hi guys, totally new to all this benefit stuff but hoping someone can help!

My dad currently gets ir ESA support group. My mum was received dla and income support but was told she had to apply for ESA. She did but when she went for the work activity meetings the man said he’s got no idea why they’ve sent her As she’s clearly not fit for work and that she’d be better off going onto my dads claim.

she is now in receipt of Pip with standard rate daily living and high rate mobility. They get help with housing benefit and council tax.

im wondering why my mum was advised to go onto my dads claim and does that make her a joint claimant? Also, is there anything else they should be getting as they really struggle! 

I’ve checked my dads national insurance contributions and he has full credits paid for years. Could he get cb ESA too or am I totally confused!, 

thanks I’m advance  :)
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Comments

  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    This is very confusing. Assuming mum and dad are living together then If your dad’s ESA claim is income based your mum should already be taken into account on it and should not have been getting IS.

    If she is on the ESA claim that doesn’t make her a joint claimant, it just means she is taken into account. Your dad gets Class 1 NI credits from the ESA claim, your mum will not. Your mum can apply for ESA in order to have the WCA and if found to have a LCW she then gets NI credits because she has LCW. These count towards her future State Pension.

    Did she get a WCA decision?

    There are some options for increasing their income.
    Do you think your dad might be eligible for PIP too? if he might be he could apply for that.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/

    He could apply for Carer’s Allowance for looking after mum. This would increase his benefit income by £37.50/week. However he should not do this if he is going to try for PIP because if he was awarded Daily Living PIP this would increase his ESA also (by more than £37.50) if they are the only two adults in the house.

    I suggest you have a look at the make up of your dad’s ESA claim to clarify how it is made up. A bit more detail about their circumstances would help in providing relevant advice.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    Thank you for your reply.

    I'm going by what my parents have told me but they don't really seem to know the full facts or situation! And can't remember dates etc.

    So I'm going to go through their letters and piece the timeline and amounts together myself and will report back. 

    Just another note that my dad is due to reach state pension age in July, I'm not sure if that altered anything!
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    tanya189 said: .. my dad is due to reach state pension age in July, I'm not sure if that altered anything!
    Yes it does, makes a big change. 

    His ESA will stop when he reaches pension age and he will get his State Pension. Assuming mum is younger than dad they become a mixed age couple (MAC) and Housing Benefit will also end (unless your mum is getting a means tested benefit) and they may both need to claim Universal Credit. If so they should claim UC before he reaches pension age in order to get his work capability assessment status carried over- otherwise he will have to have another Work Capability Assessment.

    Really important to confirm exactly what their current benefits are in order to determine correct course of action. Do also look at whether PIP is applicable for dad. Once he reaches pension age he will not be able to make a new claim for PIP - but could claim Attendance Allowance if applicable (but the way this is assessed is different).

    One way to confirm what they are currently getting is to look at their bank statements if you have access to them. Payments from DWP usually indicate what benefit is being paid.

    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener

    So from what I can tell so far. Mum got incapacity which they fazed out and turned into esa. Was told she had limited work capability. Went to the job centre. Was told by the man that he doesn’t know why she’s there as she just shouldn’t be so better for her husband to claim for her.  She was advised that money would be a bit less but would pay less rent than they were currently paying. But mum wouldn’t have to keep going to the job centre


    Dad claimed Carers allowance for a while when mum got high rate care dla but that was reduced to middle rate care. This was when I  was still at school around 2005. They received Income support when we were kids.


    Dad claimed esa because of his health.  Went to some work assessment things then was put into support group. 

    Mum was given  pip when phased out DLA, she receives standard rate daily living and high rate mobility. They also receive some Housing benefit and help with council tax. 


    Thank you so much for replying to my messages and I’m sorry if these answers aren’t full enough. It all seems so complicated!

  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    That is obviously an old letter but it confirms an income based ESA amount with them both taken into account. Are there any deductions under the Income and Benefits heading?

    You say it is your father claiming so ESA will end when he reaches pension age. Had it been your mother claiming the ESA would have continued.

    We believe the current situation is:
    Dad receives ESA (Support Group)
    Mum receives PIP (SRDL and ERM)
    They get HB and CTR.

    Unfortunately it looks likely that you mum has not been getting NI credits from anything. It would probably be sensible for her to get a pension forecast which will also tell her how many more years of NI she needs to get.

    If this is correct the ESA and HB* will end when dad reaches pension age. (*There are a few exceptions in respect of HB ending, for example if they are in supported accommodation.) Mum’s PIP is not affected.

    Do you have any thoughts about whether dad might qualify for PIP?

    Do you know if he has had a State Pension forecast and will he have any occupational pensions?

    It is likely they will be able to claim UC for extra income but this will depend on what his income will be. As previously mentioned, if they are going to claim UC they should do so before he reaches pension age. If claiming UC mum will get NI credits. 

    UC would include standard allowance, LCWRA for dad and help with rent. He should also say he cares for mum. If mum gets a Fit Note she can have a Work Capability Assessment and if she is found to have a LCWRA she can get the LCWRA element instead of dad which will allow him to get the carer element.

    The amount of CTR they get may change depending on their other income/benefits.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    I've checked my dad's pension forecast which comes out at £175.46 a week. He has no other pension, income or savings
     
    I don't think my dad would get pip (I think he thought he'd just get his pension and wouldn't have any more assessments etc as they're pretty stressful! I know now it's not that simple!)

    I will check my mum's national insurance contribution tomorrow. 

    She's been out of work all her adult like due to disability, how does she get a fit note? Does she have an assessment etc. Does that effect pip?

    Sorry for all my questions!! You're amazing for everything you've explained so far, I'm so grateful!
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    Can you confirm that they are not in supported accommodation?
    tanya189 said: Mum got incapacity which they fazed out and turned into esa. Was told she had limited work capability. Went to the job centre. Was told by the man that he doesn’t know why she’s there as she just shouldn’t be so better for her husband to claim for her.  
    Mum will have got NI while on ESA (and I assume while in IB before that but IB is before my time so I’m not certain of that). Depending on how old she is now and how long it has been since she stopped getting ESA she may have a reasonable record.

    Unfortunately she will need to declare her health condition and go through a Work Capability Assessment when claiming UC, otherwise she will be expected to look for work. A Fit Note is obtained from the GP. 



    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    They're not in supported accommodation just a normal council house. 

    Mum's just turned 64 in January. 

    Is the work capability assessment a face to face thing? 

    I literally had 2 hours sleep last night and the night before worrying about this and trying to figure out what they're going to do! 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    At current rates the ESA award will be £180.50/week, plus Housing Benefit.

    If they apply for UC the maximum award (standard allowance plus LCWRA) will be £935.96/month equivalent to £215.99/week plus the housing element.

    The amount of the housing element should match the amount of Housing Benefit.

    If mum is later found to have LCWRA and dad gets the carer element the UC maximum amount will increase to £1,098.88 equivalent to £253.58/week plus housing element.

    The pension when in payment will be deducted from the UC.

    When UC is claimed the ESA and HB stop two weeks after the date of UC claim. The first UC payment is one month and one week from the date of claim and thereafter monthly. 

    Note that if they are having the Housing Benefit paid direct to their landlord with UC the payment will normally be made to them and they will be responsible for paying the landlord.

    Note also that all of the above are at current rates which include the £20 COVID uplift to UC and government have not yet confirmed whether this will be retained. Hopefully we will know on 3rd March.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    You are an absolute star!!

    Is there anyway she could be find capable for work? Her conditions haven't gotten any better and are only going to get worse as she gets older but worried they'll randomly decide she's ok!
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    tanya189 said:
    You are an absolute star!!

    Is there anyway she could be find capable for work? Her conditions haven't gotten any better and are only going to get worse as she gets older but worried they'll randomly decide she's ok!
    As you will know from this community nothing is a dead certainty. I know nothing about your mum’s health conditions. However if she doesn’t have an assessment the default on UC is that people are treated as jobseekers.

    I should also qualify that what I have posted is obviously based on the information you have posted. You may want to double check everything with an advice agency if you have access to one.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    Thank you I will do and ill check my mum's NI contributions too.

    Thank you so much for all the advice, I'll get someone to double check but you've made me feel much less stressed about it!! 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,576 Scope online community team
    I'm so glad @calcotti has been able to help you with this @tanya189, and it's great you're trying to get this organised for your parents. 
    It's definitely worth looking at your mum's NI contributions. Her IB and ESA should have made them, and unless she had an assessment finding her 'fit for work' it could be that she still has a 'credits only' claim hovering somewhere. 

    I know Calcotti has already mentioned, but to reiterate, it's really important if your parents do decide to claim UC that they do so before your dad hits state pension age so that his ESA award can be transferred over. 

    Best of luck and please let us know if you have any further questions. 
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  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    Thank you so much. You've both been so kind. I'm planning to get some extra details from my mum tonight and get straight to finding out her national insurance forecast.

    People keep mentioning to me something about a severe disability premium, I'm a bit confused what that is or if it applies here!

    Thanks
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2021
    tanya189 said: People keep mentioning to me something about a severe disability premium, I'm a bit confused what that is or if it applies here!
    SDP is extra money that would be included in the ESA award if both your parents got a relevant disability benefit. Your dad doesn’t gets a disability benefit so SDP is not applicable.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    Ah ok thank you for clearing that up!!
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    We're so confused! My parents have just received these letters. If anyone could help that'd be amazing because.im not sure what to do yet and my mum is panicking
  • tanya189
    tanya189 Member Posts: 61 Listener
    She's so concerned she'll have to pay council tax and fill rent once my dad gets a pension
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 6,326 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2021
    The first letter is just the annual letter confirming changes to benefits rates. I’m not sure why it shows a different rate from 3rd July - wouldn’t worry about that it’s probably just a bit of DWP letter writing nonsense.

    The second letter confirms what has already been advised earlier in this thread (in February), Housing Benefit will end when he reaches pension age.

    The advice I gave previously was that they may be entitled to could claim Universal Credit and that if they intend to do so they should do it before he reaches pension age. However I also recommended you check with a local advice agency if you can because I may not have all the relevant information.

    (Not crucial at this point but did you manage to check your mum’s Ni record/pension forecast?)


    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.

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