Nothing in Queens Speach for the disabled. — Scope | Disability forum
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Nothing in Queens Speach for the disabled.

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
Following the Queens speech today and nothing in it about any help for the majority of  disabled people!  No extra help as we come out of covid, nothing about social housing for the disabled or anyone else, 
The long awaited social care bill has been put back yet again, so nothing new there either. This is just a post to keep everyone updated so please don't turn it into another post that ends up being closed. Thank you.

Comments

  • leeCal
    leeCal Member Posts: 4,222 Disability Gamechanger
    Very sad on all counts @givingup
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    In respect though she can’t be expected to talk about everything or she would be there all day.,
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    MarkN88, I know, but I've gone through it in detail on the internet. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    It must have been difficult for the Queen her first major event since Philip died, as for what was in the speech it must be difficult, so much will be reliant on the speed of our recovery post covid, I doubt they could afford to commit billions of £ on social care reform whilst we are in debt over our heads to the tune of £2.2 trillion.
    The govt does seem committed to evening things up between north and south which is an admiral goal, lets see how well they do on that.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    I think you you have missed my point though. Whether it’s a speech on the television or printed details on the internet. They can’t be expected to cover every single possible topic or area that might need addressing in the foreseeable future. It’s unrealistic. 

    Is there a particular area concerning you that you need assistance with? 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    edited May 11
    Nothing personally I haven't detailed before in other posts, but thanks for asking MarkN88.
    Almost forgot, at the end of the BBC thread it asked if I wanted to ask any questions of the prime minister and I put forward a few regarding the disabled.
    But, obviously, they will get endless thousands so I doubt it will get a mention.
    Woodbine, not going to get into any conflict with you but the government have had over 11 years before covid struck and they still haven't addressed the north/south divide , an admirable goal as you said , but actions speak louder than words especially in politics. Cheers.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    @givingup I see no reason for any conflict, i'm sure we are all adult enough to discuss these matters in a non confrontational way.
    The north south divide has been in place for decades now.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    Woodbine. Yes indeed it has and it should of gone years ago.
    In 2021 we shouldn't even have to discuss it.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    It was expected by most people  I think I won't put my thoughts lol 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    lisathomas50 I understand
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Whatever the Queen says in her speech is up to the government  boris Johnson sat with Barbra Windsor and said things would change with dementia  and social care so what is expected ??
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Social care is a problem, has been a problem for years and will continue to be. That's the obvious statement, I suppose almost the only way forward is going to be a Royal commision but they take forever to conclude and report.
    The less obvious problem mainly because people are reluctant to speak about it is the fact that people in a position to pay for care should be made to pay for it but never seem to want to.
    In the last few months of his life my dad had 2 carers 4 times a day and was paying £00's a month for the pleasure but he had the money and could afford it.
    The rich have this attitude that the poor should have saved all their working lives to pay for such care, as if the poor could do that.
    So what's the answer? of course we all know that but it's a solution that we must not speak it's name, so I'll say it quietly...higher taxes.Simples
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,445 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 11
    It’s hardly news that the Queens speech contains nothing for the disabled. https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/?s=Queens+speEch. I think it’s more interesting to ask why not. That leads to some interesting places.

    1 - the only things which go into a QS are those things which play well with the bits of the electorate which the governing party needs to play nice at the time. GCSE and A level results will be a major issue over the next few months as will the need to vaccinate kids and lower infection rates in schools as the guidance slackens re masks and social distancing. Then we have the need to train whole sections of the economy who were furloughed and/or lost their jobs/careers in secrets that have been largely wiped out. The whole university remote learning/income from foreign students thing isn’t going away and will be even more prominent as students return to face to face teaching. The turnover in teaching staff in the past 15 months and all the above means the focus was always going to be on education and training. 

    2 - there are few disabled activists operating in mainstream political parties; few disabled voters; few disabled MPs; an inaccessible parliament and political process. The expansion of the gig economy etc. has seen in work poverty outstrip out of work poverty for about five years now. In terms of lobbying that group of former middle income earners who are intelligent, articulate and know how to organise are simply louder when talking about poverty and earnings and opportunity than the disabled lobby who are fractured, unwelcoming and something of a mess. Instead of lobbying from the ground up it’s been left to DPOs to fill the gap; a job they do extraordinarily badly. So, no effective lobbying = none of our issues on the table. Easy to blame politicians but blame can be attributed far more equitably.

    3 - social care - there is no workable solution and there won’t be in our lifetime. Government devolved responsibility to local government; crippled it financially and allowed private equity to own 80% of the sector. The latter pursues profit through lowest common denominator means on every front. It has no interest in quality of care provided profits are ever increasing. The only way things change is if all three of these things change. That’s simply not going to happen. 

    4 - I have to say I agree with more taxes @woodbine but that only solves the LA income/expenditure issue. The other two problems won’t be solved by that at all and a Royal Commission will be nothing other than a smoke screen or a means to buy time to get through an election so people move onto other issues. §I find your assertion that people who can afford to pay for care don’t want to quite extraordinary. You can only mean millionaires, who absolutely do pay for care, as for everybody else the harsh reality is that care really is largely unaffordable.


  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    I totally agree about its not that people don't want to pay for care they can't afford to pay for care  any money or property which belongs to a person needing care would be sold to pay for that care until the funds ran out 

    So all the money the homes that they thought could be left to their children would be all gone some care homes charge nearly two thousand a week  and to have carers is up to a thousand pound a week depending on how many times a day you want the carer to go in and what you need them to do 

    If you have no money and don't own your own home then you get it largely for free depending on how much pension you get you still have to pay up to 300.00 a week out of your pension 

    My mum always said your better off without money and without your own home because you get more help 

    Most people work hard all their life but still live in poverty even in this day and age we do have free medical treatment  imagine if we didn't and in wales we have free prescriptions everyone which I am also grateful for 

    In my own opinion and it is just my opinion the only people who look after us is ourselves  and we have to try and make the best of what we got and as the old saying goes live within your means  cut your cloth accordingly 

    My parents age group didn't get benefits they had to work they had no choice  but money was worth more back then my mum and dad brought their house for under two thousand pound you can't even buy a new car for that much you might just get 3months rent 

    Life is what it is 


     
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,445 Disability Gamechanger
    I
    If you have no money and don't own your own home then you get it largely for free depending on how much pension you get you still have to pay up to 300.00 a week out of your pension 

    A lot more I could say but this is simply untrue. How is something free where you have to hand over all of your benefit income bar enough to give you a small personal allowance and you lose part of your disability benefits along the way. Also the percentage of people who now require a third party top up for even the most basic residential care is rising exponentially. Nothing here is free.
  • Cher_Inactive
    Cher_Inactive Posts: 4,414

    Scope community team

    edited May 12
    Thanks for starting this thread @givingup Disability is often a glaring omission on political agendas sadly - for many of the reasons Mike surmised - and much work remains to be done to reverse this status quo.  We see daily on the community how disabled people are struggling across all aspects of life, with a welfare system intended as a safety net to cover only the most basic needs.

    The Social Market Foundation recently did some research around recommendations for the welfare green paper, supported by Scope, and you might want to read the report produced: Time to think again: disability benefits and support after covid-19.

    While for those who didn't catch the Queen's Speech, here's a transcript
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  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    My MIL is in a care home (serious dementia) the fees are around £550 a week, and she has to pay £201 of that from her state pension which is £224, allowed to keep just £23 a week for personal items.
    @lisathomas50 benefits were avaliable back when we were kids, family allowance, Family Income Supplement (FIS) to name just two. We paid £11k for our first house in 1980 but that was half of our joint income at the time, but interest rates were 6 or 7 x what they are today.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    My mum is 84 she brought her house a long time ago my mum was born in the war there were no benefits then 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry better put that properly my mum was born in 1936  there were no benefits back then and I was born in 1963  mum brought her house in the 1950s  550 a week is cheap for a care home my mum pays 800 to have carers comeing n to help my brother and she pays 350.00 a week to go to day center and 200.00 for one over night care she has dementia 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    The welfare state didn't start really until 1948
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I didn't say you get it free I said largely free as I know you have to pay out your pension 

    What I am trying to say is if your a home owner and have lots of money that you have worked for all your life that all gets swallowed up to pay for care if you need it you don't get any help or any reductions 

    I have seen people break there heart because they had to sell their house to pay for care because the money they had ran out people save and buy property to pass on to family but now you get t penalised for owning your home and got savings  
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Pioneering
    I understand what everyone's saying but I have hardly any saving so I can't get a mortgage to get on the property ladder, I'm too old now anyway, so I have no choice but to rent. At the moment I'm able to rent privately but now the owners will be selling I'll have to look for something in social housing.
    But while I've been renting privately and the owners are retiring and there is no mortgage on the property if either of them have to go into a home in the future , the rent I've paid will go towards that.
    That's how I look at it personally.


  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    @givingup have you claimed LHA or UC to pay the rent?
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 2,983 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 12
    woodbine said:
    @givingup have you claimed LHA or UC to pay the rent?
    Sorry if these seems like quibbling, but people don't claim LHA. They claim UC (with a few exceptions) if working age or Housing Benefit if pension age. The LHA sets the maximum amount of help available (through either of these) for people renting in the private sector.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes sorry calcotti you are perfectly correct, I was in a clumsy way trying to make a different point.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,445 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I didn't say you get it free I said largely free as I know you have to pay out your pension 

    What I am trying to say is if your a home owner and have lots of money that you have worked for all your life that all gets swallowed up to pay for care if you need it you don't get any help or any reductions 

    I have seen people break there heart because they had to sell their house to pay for care because the money they had ran out people save and buy property to pass on to family but now you get t penalised for owning your home and got savings  
    Again this isn’t quite right Lisa. You don’t pay out just your pension. You pay all your benefit across. 

    As for the rest of it I find it a very odd way of looking at it and always have. I was a community care WRO for a period in the 90s and I still pick up those queries nowadays. You learn as much about people as you do about finance. People with  capital and a house mostly had no intention of donating either to their families but it was amazing how often it became the intent they declared they’d had all along as soon as it turned out they had to pay something like care. The same people wouldn’t dream of not paying car insurance, house insurance, health insurance and life assurance. It was depressingly familiar on a weekly basis. Was always funny when their sins or daughters rang me because their patents were vague about what was going on and what it would cost. Parents with visceral anger at having to make a contribution to the cost of their care because it was diminishing capital intended for their only child often turned out to have not spoken to them in a decade.

    Very few people have so much capital they can afford to self fund so in most cases you’re literally talking about a contribution. Similar with the old “I have to sell my house” peach. Really? Where does it say that in the legislation then? Usually it was an action taken on the end of very bad quality advice. 

    Lots of myths abound in this area which really don’t help clear the air around some feet simple issues i.e. the cost of residential care is now unaffordable. That has been driven not by care actually being more complex or costly but by it being owned by private equity. Can it be fixed? No. Sadly no government is ever going to say that.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    I worked in care for 30 years and I was a care manager I only left last year due to me haveing corona virus I have also worked for the care inspectorate for wales  most people now sign over their capital while they still have capacity to do so  and their homes the loop hole is if you need care in the 7 year period of being clear then your home can still be used as capital to pay for your care 


    Some people try and get their parents to sign their home over after capacity has been list so then it can't be done my mum signed everything over to me and my brother 12 years ago after my father died  my mum has got dementia now she has had it six years so we were ok my mum now lives with my brother and I have her to give my brother  a rest 

    Since care went private prices shot up  that will never change  yes people lose most of their pensions and as you rightly say any benefits that may be getting but not everyone gets other benefits 

    Most people are left with a small amount for personal items unless they have home care which is different and most people opt for these days 

    The cost of care will always be high  but the quality of care and help you can get to pay for care can be changed  by campaigning and lobbying to the government which I do Boris Johnson said to Barbra Windsor he  would change and put in help for social care  then came the pandemic will it ever change probably not but we can carry on trying 

    The social services tell you if you have a home and you have  savings snd private pension thst you have to much money to apply for help with costs of care because if if you run out of money the house can be sold to cover the cost of your care 




  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    Doesn't signing everything over to someone else though get classed as deprivation of capital?
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    As long as you sign over whilst you have capacity  and don't receive any care in the seven year period  even on pension or benefits you have to pay a contribution  the money will still be used for care but you wouldn't have to to sell your house 
  • Cher_Inactive
    Cher_Inactive Posts: 4,414

    Scope community team

    @lisathomas50

    I don't believe there is a fixed seven year period in which you would be responsible for contributing towards care after signing over your property.  Unless, you have an official link?

    Rather, a decision about deprivation of assets would be based on a standard of reasonableness.  For instance: when you transferred your home (irrespective of time), was there a reasonable expectation of the need for care and support in the future?

    This Age UK Deprivation of Assets info states:
    What if I gave my money or home away a long time ago?
    The timing is important. The council will look at when you reduced your assets and see if, at the time, you could reasonably expect that you would need care and support. The local authority must decide based on all the case facts and clear reasons, which could be challenged.
    If you were fit and healthy, and could not have imagined needing care and support at the time, then it may not count as deprivation of assets.
    Paying for care is a very complicated and complex issue and I'd advise anyone considering taking action to seek legal advice before doing so to keep protected.  
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  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 2,983 Disability Gamechanger
    As referenced by Cher AgeUK have very detailed Fact Sheets dealing with all aspects of care and care funding.
    Age UK factsheets and information guides | Age UK
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    As long as you sign over whilst you have capacity  and don't receive any care in the seven year period  even on pension or benefits you have to pay a contribution  the money will still be used for care but you wouldn't have to to sell your house 
    You are confusing what you can gift cash wise, if you sign over your property it's a potential for all manner of problems, and could be seen as DOC
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    woodbine said:
    As long as you sign over whilst you have capacity  and don't receive any care in the seven year period  even on pension or benefits you have to pay a contribution  the money will still be used for care but you wouldn't have to to sell your house 
    You are confusing what you can gift cash wise, if you sign over your property it's a potential for all manner of problems, and could be seen as DOC
    I thought that was the case. 

    An older neighbour of mine years ago thought it would be better to sign her house over to her daughter and then the council got involved when it came to care and I’m sure it affected the outcome. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,466 Disability Gamechanger
    With gifts, the 7 year 'rule' doesn't necessarily apply if it wouldn't have any relevance for Inheritance Tax in the future, i.e. if the monies you gift + your estate don't exceed £325k (currently). I know because I told my children they'd really have to look after me for 7 years after I was going to give them some monies, then was advised by my solicitor that this didn't apply! :o I 'think' they will still look after me tho, as I still have my uses. :)
    More info about care homes & deprivation of assets: https://helpandadvice.co.uk/avoiding-care-home-fees/#
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,256 Disability Gamechanger
    @MarkN88 A neighbour of my late parents some 10 years ago signed their property over to their daughter to avoid care charges (if they ever needed to go into a care home) three years later they had a monumental falling out and the daughter evicted them from "her" property.
    It has its dangers.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    woodbine said:
    @MarkN88 A neighbour of my late parents some 10 years ago signed their property over to their daughter to avoid care charges (if they ever needed to go into a care home) three years later they had a monumental falling out and the daughter evicted them from "her" property.
    It has its dangers.
    Yes it’s a complicated area. 

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