Enhanced Mobility? I've been drafting parts, any thoughts on this?

OverlyAnxious

Morning all,

I'd really appreciate Mike's input on this but I know he doesn't like being contacted directly... 

My PIP renewal should be coming up soon and I really just want to know whether I have any chance at high rate mobility this time.  On my first form I spent ages writing about my agoraphobia, very limited distances/leaving times/time spent away from home, total inability to use any form of public transport/taxis/lifts due to physical vertigo/nausea/IBS symptoms (some of which triggered by the anxiety) and the necessity for a very smooth riding, totally reliable vehicle to use myself...but was basically told that because I can read a map and drive my own car I don't fit any mobility descriptors.  I didn't bother going any further with that on the MR or tribunal.  I won enhanced daily for mixing with people, food prep and nutrition, no mobility.  I would benefit massively from access to the Motability scheme though which is why I'm looking into this again before the renewal.

The vertigo, nausea and IBS also restrict my walking distances considerably now (they weren't so bad when I first applied in early 2019) but it is not a simple tick box answer...sometimes I can only manage a few steps from the car or around my flats carpark, others I can do ~400 metres at a flat local park on a good day (just measured on Google Maps).  I'm not sure whether this would fit anywhere in the 'moving' descriptors or not?  Or how I would prove it?

I'm happy to elaborate on any of the above, but from what I've written there (and anything you know about me from my previous posts!) can you see whether it's worth me going for Mobility this time? I wasted a huge amount of time and effort on it last time and don't want to repeat that if it's a lost cause.

Thanks!

janer1967

Hi there 

I'm sure Mike will respond but just thought would give my input 

You don't specifically go for either you just treat each descriptor one by one and explain how you are affected in relation to the task giving real examples 

Don't forget to specify if you can do it safely,  reliably and repeated and how you are the majority of the time 

I'm unsure of your chances of enhanced as you can walk , can go out on your own , can drive etc 

But as above give detailed account of what happens when you try and do it 

Its never a waste of time putting effort into the form to give yourself the best chance 

Good luck with the review 

I

OverlyAnxious

Thanks Jane,

The reliably part is one part I'm unsure of here...

Can I drive to the medical centre 5 miles away?  No.

Can I drive to the GP surgery 2 miles away?  Maybe on a good day with low traffic. (1 day out of 7 estimated)

Can I drive to and arrive at the GP surgery for a specific appointment time?  No.

Can I drive to Tesco 2 miles away within a 3 hour window on a day of my choice after a lot of preparation and planning?  Generally yes. (1 day out of 7)  

Can I drive to Tesco 2 days in a row?  No, the physical symptoms are exacerbated by the shopping trip and mean I can't walk more than a few steps or drive for the next day or so.



Then the issue of walking.  I can walk around a small section of the park on my own on a good day (generally 3 days after shopping and 3 days before the next shop) as long as there aren't any people or loose dogs there.  My walking speed is fairly slow and I'm wobbly & unsteady on my feet but haven't fallen (so far).  However, if someone comes to visit me outside my own flat, or the telephone rings, or a courier drops a parcel, the anxiety symptoms are so severe that I can't walk more than a few steps and can't stand still in 'open' space without something solid to lean on.  Those symptoms then last a few days as with the shopping trip.  I have to try and 'pace' things so that I shop on a Monday, then have a family visit or park walk on a Thursday, and that's about my limit currently.

I don't know whether that's considered as reliable or not?

janer1967

It would be classed as not being able to repeat the task for a significant duration 

Also put a real examples like 

I go shopping 2 miles away in my car as can't go anywhere unfamiliar on my own 

I went on x day explain how far you walked round shop any aids you use how long it took does it take longer than other people.  What do you do when you get home do you have to rest before unpacking shop 

What are the consequences eg pain , unable to stand or walk how long till you can do it again 

This is why it's important to give real examples so you can give timescales and other information 

Have you thought of getting help with the form though I presume your condition prevents you going out to get this 

When is your review if you have time get your last letter out and start writing it out on paper before while you have the time to think it out 

Then you won't be in a panic when it comes 

OverlyAnxious

janer1967 said:

Have you thought of getting help with the form though I presume your condition prevents you going out to get this 

When is your review if you have time get your last letter out and start writing it out on paper before while you have the time to think it out 

Then you won't be in a panic when it comes 

Yeah, I can't get to places, deal with people face to face or use telephones so can't get any help with it.  (Also the reason I still can't get any medical help.)  It's only the advice I received from this forum last time that helped me win the tribunal! 

Don't have the date for the review yet but it should be coming up soon, I never received the Covid extension that others did.  Not much has changed with the daily living side so that shouldn't be too difficult but want to try and get the wording right for the Mobility side if I do go for that this time.  There'll be a panic either way, story of my life haha! 

janer1967

Those awarded by tribunal didn't get the extension initially bit I think this has been challenged 

Also as you won at tribunal it will be a new application not a review 

You will be sent a reminder 14 weeks prior to award ending 

However with delay at minute i would apply prior to that or you risk the award ending before the new application has completed 

OverlyAnxious

I was thinking last night, does the number of 'familiar' journeys count?  Or will they take just one to satisfy 1f?

Back in 2019 I could get to many places within about a 10 mile radius, but now can only get to 3 places in a much smaller radius on a good day (Tesco, park, pond).  If there's a lot of traffic built up at a junction or traffic lights it triggers panic (can't swallow, can't breathe, bowels suddenly shift etc) so I can't complete the journey and have to turn back as soon as possible.

The problem with 1f is that adding a person does not help me - I tried to drive just in my own car park with my Mum in the car a few months back but couldn't manage it due to severe nausea and vertigo caused by the addition of a person.  (I got 8 points in the mixing with people descriptor for this).  

OverlyAnxious

So...in true overlyanxious style, I have indeed received the short review form 6 months before the award end...despite winning at tribunal! 



There's always one!   

I've had a really rough week this week and not in the right frame of mind to deal with it right now but obviously time is limited.  I'd really appreciate any further input on the possibility of either 1F or a mixture of 1D & 2B based on my earlier posts?

Thanks

OverlyAnxious

I've been drafting parts for the mobility section.  Any thoughts on this?

Following Journeys - I previously wrote about my inability to use any form of public transport, taxis or lifts due to contamination, social anxiety, nausea and vertigo all causing unmanageable physical symptoms. But could drive short distances in my own car for a short period of time within a small radius after much planning and preparation. This has worsened considerably since. My nausea and vertigo issues are making driving physically more difficult. And the first lockdown (March 2020) stopped my repeated attempts at going out which dramatically increased the agoraphobia symptoms and has not improved at all since. I am not housebound but can no longer regularly or reliably complete even familiar journeys. Any form of 'hold up' such as traffic at a junction or traffic lights causes sudden panic symptoms stopping me being able to swallow or breathe, increasing my heart rate, and increasing nausea and IBS to unmanageable levels. I have no option but to turn back and get home as quickly as possible in this situation. I am no longer able to visit the supermarket weekly as I used to.

Moving Around - My nausea and vertigo are causing my walking to be slow and wobbly, with the feeling as if I will fall. I live in a 1st floor flat so this means that just getting outside can be very difficult and unsafe du to the stairs. Any loud noises such as traffic passing worsens this feeling. On good days, maybe once a week at present, I can manage a few hundred yards at quiet times away from people, pets and traffic. On very bad days, more than one day a week, I cannot manage more than a few steps and cannot get outside or across the carpark due to the nausea & vertigo. This is also caused by any need to deal with people, such as meeting my Mum outside for a short visit, or knowing a courier or shopping delivery will be arriving at some point that day. It also continues for hours after having dealt with the person or collected the parcel from my doorstep (I cannot answer the door as mentioned in a previous question). On the rest of the days I am somewhere between the two, able to walk a short distance around my flats carpark, or around an empty corner of a local park if I am able to drive there.

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

Too wordy; full of assertions like “can no longer regularly or reliably complete even familiar journeys.” and zero examples/evidence. As it stands you will likely score zero points. If you know you cannot do these things then you must have tried them. Describe what happened when you tried them. 

If you have not tried them and have no examples then your assertions are no more than that and you also likely won’t qualify.

I don't see how I can be any clearer about what's happening than this?  It's literally what's happening when I try to get to the supermarket now.

Any form of 'hold up' such as traffic at a junction or traffic lights causes sudden panic symptoms stopping me being able to swallow or breathe, increasing my heart rate, and increasing nausea and IBS to unmanageable levels. I have no option but to turn back and get home as quickly as possible in this situation

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

It’s really not hard.

Considering how many of us get this wrong, I'm not sure I agree with that! 

I will try again using your template though, that's exactly the sort of thing I needed.  I'm much better at answering direct questions than being able to recall the event in one go.

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

Okay well it’s not a template exactly. It is simply “actual examples done in detail”. 

Pose yourself those direct questions.What, when, where, with whom,  what happened next and so on. Play  devils advocate with what you’ve written. Detail is your friend here. One side of A4 on a really detailed actual incident is invaluable. 

Yes, I can see what you're getting at.  Being able to actually get that on paper is proving to be quite difficult though.  It's too variable to just use one event, especially when I don't really fit the descriptor for 1F.  But I can get out sometimes so that rules out 1E completely. 

I'm also finding that some things won't make sense without going into background information that isn't relevant for PIP.  As people on here have probably noticed, I either write 2 sentences or an entire novel with nothing in between!    I've just sent my GP a 5 page letter attempting to explain the current problems I'm having.

Just as one example, you ask what makes the IBS unmanageable - but there are several parts to that alone, and most of which won't be understood by normal people (I've been trying with relatives for the last decade...some still insist I just need disposable underwear!).  Firstly I can't mentally deal with bodily fluids due to a phobia around them, so that in itself triggers other symptoms (such as more bodily fluids, short breath, hot, sweaty, lightheadedness etc), but that's not relevant for PIP.  I'm not able to use public toilets to clean up, partly due to contamination OCD, which again isn't relevant anywhere else in PIP.  And I don't have words to explain why 'IBS' renders my whole body essentially useless for an hour or more at a time.  It's not just 'waste falling out' but it's like my entire innards contract and pains start in various places, I can't stop shaking, my chest gets really tight, reflux is bouncing up to my throat, I keep trying to swallow, I can feel liquid reaching the lower exit, my legs are all wobbly.  And if I try to get out of the car like this I find I can't - which is then 'entrapment' that makes the agoraphobia worse triggering the vertigo so although I can stand up, I can't let go of the car to walk anywhere.  So I'm left with no choice but to try and drive home like this.  Is it safe to do that?  I really don't know anymore.  However, I also can't trust any food that I haven't bought myself, so have to keep attempting to get to the supermarket myself because otherwise I have nothing to eat, and am already severely underweight due to the food issues.  I had 2 deliveries this week as I haven't been able to get out at all, one from a supermarket and one from a family member, and I can't trust the food from either.  But again, that isn't relevant anywhere in PIP.  The reason I can't 'recover' at the supermarket is because it's away from my home so the anxiety never drops while I'm there due to agoraphobia - but then that's back to assertion again because there is no 'hard' evidence for it, but it's happened every time I've left the house for the last 20 years or so.  I never realised that other people don't mind being sat in a car or in a cafe or a supermarket, I've always just needed to get home asap.

Sorry, I'm whinging now.  I know PIP isn't about a diagnosis but when my main problems are agoraphobia and OCD it really shouldn't be this difficult to score points for going out and food prep. 

Susanannr52

I don’t know if you’ve asked 
your local C.A.B. Or your local neighbourhood housing office for help in filling out your form

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

Overthinking to a huge degree. I didn’t ask anything. I posted some basic questions you need to ask yourself to pull out the detail of each example. 

So, you’re not required to write an essay on “what makes your IBS unmanageable” because I was only making the point that you mentioned that when you panic when driving it becomes unmanageable. The only question is what is it that makes your IBS unmanageable in your example/incident rather than in general. If you can relate it to a specific incident on a specific date then your latest description is great but I’ve no idea why you might think your phobia around bodily fluids and OCD around contamination are irrelevant for PIP.  

One final thing to add. Please don’t take offence at this but you are right. It really shouldn’t be difficult but one of the issues is seeing yourself and your conditions as somehow exceptional and way more complex than anyone else including others with the same conditions. The reality is that all health conditions are both variable and complex. Describing incidents involving them is not. It just takes a little time and focus ti get the detail down.

If there were points for overthinking I'd be well in!!   

I don't think there is anyone else with the same combination of issues, that's why I can't find any treatment.  One of the biggest problems I have is not being able to deal with bodies, not only my own but anyone else's...  Obviously every sort of treatment involves other people - there's only so much you can do over the internet lol.   I haven't found anyone else like this so far...I'd be really interested to!

Trying to meet any person makes my anxiety (and in turn the physical issues) much worse.  So I've got to try and convince the PIP assessor that I 'need' a person to help with journeys, but cannot actually have one.  I do feel like this is an exercise in futility now, and wish I'd spent the time making sure I don't lose the daily living instead of wasting it on trying to get MB as well.

So, In the last few weeks:

I've failed to reach the big supermarket (2 miles away) 4 times.  Having to turn back at 1 mile (before a large traffic lighted roundabout).   Last time I got there 3 weeks ago, I didn't have the strength and energy to carry a basket, couldn't bend due to nausea, and couldn't stop shaking, so could only grab 5 items and get through the self checkout...and then barely got back across the car park trying to carry the bag.  But I did complete that journey.

There is a smaller shop a mile in the other direction without any roundabouts or traffic lights which I managed to get to twice in the last few weeks - but food safety doesn't seem to be a priority there (I've never seen so many grey meats!) so I can't trust any chilled or frozen foods from there.  But again, that's not relevant for PIP, as I did technically complete the journey, but it wasn't effective in getting any food.

And I've managed to get to the wildlife pond around 3 miles away twice.  Once I couldn't walk away from the car at all.  The other time I managed about 100 metres between the car and the pond.

The problem I've got is that if I chose the failed Tesco trip, that makes it seem like I can't get anywhere which isn't true.  If I chose the pond trip when I couldn't walk away from the car, that makes it seem like I can't walk at all, which again isn't true. 

And as mentioned above, when I tried to have a shopping delivery, I couldn't even walk from my chair to the door...but much later that day, I managed to walk outside and across the carpark to the dustbins.

It's not that I can't do 'anything' but I can't do things when they need to be done - such as answering the door when someone's there or driving to the supermarket before it gets too busy.  (I have to go through at least an hour of IBS 'clearout' issues before leaving, so already feel rough and nauseous time I try to leave.)

Am I still overthinking this?  I'll focus on the daily descriptors over the weekend and come back to this if you still think I've got a chance at it. 

Susanannr52

Oh you poor thing, I really do feel for you
this is panic attacks at its worse case 
my BFF also sufferers with panic attacks
which is why I feel for you
Please find the strength to talk to your GP who can arrange for you to talk to someone even if it’s only over the internet
I hope you get some help to get you through this very rough time

Cress

Hi @OverlyAnxious
Maybe a monthly or weekly diary would help to get everything in order, showing clearly what you were able to do and when.

You could probably remember how your past week went, or do one for this week.
And then explain briefly in the diary entry why you could or couldn't achieve each goal that day and then refer them to additional info with more detail.
I'll happily admit I know sod all about these things but reading your examples leaves me confused as to how often exactly you can/can't do things.
Bearing in mind it doesn't take much to confuse me lol!

OverlyAnxious

Susanannr52 said:

Oh you poor thing, I really do feel for you
this is panic attacks at its worse case 
my BFF also sufferers with panic attacks
which is why I feel for you
Please find the strength to talk to your GP who can arrange for you to talk to someone even if it’s only over the internet
I hope you get some help to get you through this very rough time

Thanks.  I did send my GP a comprehensive 5 page letter last week detailing my current issues.  He said there's nothing he can do as a GP because of the combination of issues I have (I can't take meds or get to hospital referrals), but he's passed the letter on to the mental health team so I'm awaiting their reply now.  

I have been through the system a few times before without any success.  10 years ago I was put down for face to face therapy 12 miles from my home which I obviously couldn't get to.  I was then put down for telephone CBT and discharged because I can't answer the phone.  I moved into the outskirts of town about 6 years ago to be nearer supermarkets and health places...  But even then, after a few more attempts one assessor in 2017 decided there just wasn't enough resources to help someone in my position.  Then at the last assessment I managed to get to (Jan 2020, 4 miles away, it took a huge amount of effort to get there and caused the worst stomach and bowel issues I'd had up until then) they said there was no help for me and I was literally left with nowhere else to try.  So once Covid started that really sealed my fate.

OverlyAnxious

Cress said:

Hi @OverlyAnxious
Maybe a monthly or weekly diary would help to get everything in order, showing clearly what you were able to do and when.

You could probably remember how your past week went, or do one for this week.
And then explain briefly in the diary entry why you could or couldn't achieve each goal that day and then refer them to additional info with more detail.
I'll happily admit I know sod all about these things but reading your examples leaves me confused as to how often exactly you can/can't do things.
Bearing in mind it doesn't take much to confuse me lol!

Lol, no it's definitely me!  My brain is all over the place at the minute, between the brain fog around several panic attacks a day and the false memories that OCD creates I'm not making much sense of the events myself.    I've also lost track of time lately.  When I said 'last week' for the park visit, I've just checked the date on a photo I took there and it was was actually a month ago!  

Too late to start a diary for next week now but I think I can remember this week...maybe!  

Monday - Attempted big supermarket, failed to leave the estate.  Attempted small shop within estate, picked up 5 basic items.  Nausea and IBS too great in afternoon to leave house at all.

Tuesday - Had small shopping delivery from relative, couldn't answer door.  Had large supermarket delivery, major internal issues, couldn't answer door, couldn't lift shopping bags whole.  3 hours later walked downstairs and out to the dustbins approx 150 metres.  (Internal issues continued into the night)

Wednesday - (Couldn't trust shopping delivery items)  Attempted big supermarket visit in morning and failed to pass the 1 mile roundabout, returned home.  In the afternoon, completed rural pond visit, walked ~100 metres between car and pond slowly, stayed there for approx 30 minutes, nausea and vertigo started to increase further so came home.

Thursday - Attempted big supermarket visit, failed to pass the 1 mile roundabout, returned home.  Felt too nauseous and lightheaded to walk outside at all in afternoon.  Attempted big supermarket visit again in evening around 8pm, against my better judgement - 1 mile roundabout was clear but as soon as I got onto the roundabout something internal started shaking/cramping really heavily and I honestly thought I was going to pass out or worse...just half a mile from the supermarket I had to 360 the next roundabout and return home - the nausea did not drop all night, not the best idea I've had and won't be attempting another evening lol.

Friday - Had planned to attempt another visit this morning but too nauseous with unending IBS & vertigo to get outside let alone drive.  

I don't drive at weekends due to the increased traffic but am expecting another family shopping delivery tomorrow, and potentially a short walk alone (few hundred metres) on Sunday afternoon depending on how the internals are.  Hopefully can then attempt the big supermarket again on Monday, but I really have no idea whether the anxiety around that particular trip has now been set in concrete.  

Trouble is, I'm still not 'seeing' myself fit anywhere in the descriptors.  It's not that I can't undertake ANY journey as in 1E.  It's not that I can't complete any familiar journey without an aid as in 1F.  But it's also not that I could complete an unfamiliar journey with another person, as suggested by 1D.  I still don't know which of those I should be aiming for.

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

If your GP says there’s nothing they can do for you then getting them to write a letter simply saying that would be useful. Not critical but useful. It fills a gap where DWP could otherwise infer no GP involvement - no need.

It is in letter form as that's the only way I can contact them.  I will send a copy as evidence. 

OverlyAnxious

Username_removed said:

If your GP says there’s nothing they can do for you then getting them to write a letter simply saying that would be useful. Not critical but useful. It fills a gap where DWP could otherwise infer no GP involvement - no need.

I was just thinking - is it worth putting my own letter sent to the GP in as evidence as well?  It does contain details of the last shopping trips that I was able to complete as well as details about meal times (food prep/nutrition), trying to have a tradesman in my property 3 months ago (mixing with people), not being able to take meds (managing a condition, but admittedly weak on that descriptor) and what happened last time I tried to take a phone call from a relative (communicating verbally).  I'm just worried that at 5 pages it might be a bit long? 

Also, as the answers are going to be much longer & more detailed than I was expecting, I won't be able to hand write them.  Is it ok to print them as one sheet and attach at the back or should I print on separate sheets and place in each corresponding page?

Lastly, picking up on another thread this morning...should I ask for a specific award length?  If so, how long and where?  This award was 3 years but it's only ended up being 15 months between tribunal and the review.

calcotti

OverlyAnxious said: Also, as the answers are going to be much longer & more detailed than I was expecting, I won't be able to hand write them.  Is it ok to print them as one sheet and attach at the back 

That is fine. I rarely write anything other than "See attached notes" in the text boxes on the form. Make sure you include your name and NI number at the top of every page you attach. Make it clear which question each section of notes refers to.

Not only does this make it easier for you to organise your thoughts, it's probably easier for DWP to read and if you have to do it all again in a few years you will have an editable starting point for the next submission.