I'd like to dispute the award length only. How long do I have to do this?

ncor

It was very overwhelming, I had to remind them a few times that it was a the award length i was querying only, I then didn’t answer the question.

They scared me by saying we are nearly getting into an area where we would be questioning your entitlement and if DWP made the correct decision, but they still awarded the enhanced on both which I am well entitled to.

They asked where is the diagnosis of one of your ilnesses, something that was diagnosed 10 years ago in N.Ireland, they wernt happy that there wasn’t a specialist diagnosis evidence for my physical conditions. 

They focused more on my mental conditions and asked are you in the care of specialist at the minute, I told them no. I was under the care of Perinatal mental health, after having my baby, which was no help to me.

how would I go about requesting these things? I’m really scared now incase they take everything away if I go any further.

ncor

Yes it says on the decision that I can request the statement of reasons in writing from the tribunal.

I think I will do that as I would like to see the reasons why again they have gave such a short review period.

i think you are correct that they weren’t to grips with the case law as they didn’t really know from the start what I was querying, even had to tell the clerk to the tribunal at the start, she sounded surprised also when I said I was appealing the award length only. Thanks for all your help. 

calcotti

ncor said:

Yes it says on the decision that I can request the statement of reasons in writing from the tribunal.

Request the record of proceedings also.

ncor

Okay thanks will try to get the letter done by Monday. 

ncor

Thanks for the kind words and hope you are keeping well also @bekindalways.

An update on my case, I have now received both the Record of proceedings and the Statement of reasons.

There are a few discrepancies I believe I have picked up on, but I’m not a professional and can’t tell what is an error of law. The judge clearly said at the start of the tribunal ‘Due to your age we would never give a 10 year/ongoing award’.

Not sure which direction to go in now as I spoke to citizens advice about going to Upper Tribunal and they said that I shouldn’t because they may look at the whole award again, this was a telephone appointment so they didn’t even see the SOR or ROP. 

I could post up a summary of everything if that helped In giving some advice.

Thanks.

ncor

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Yes, in the ROP, that’s one of the first things the judge said ‘we would never give an open ended award to someone of your age’.

But in the SOR there is no mention of this, only mentioned that due to my age and the fact that I have 3 young children, they found it extraordinary that there was no ongoing referrals for my problems and that it would be inappropriate to to give an ongoing award. 

I had a musculoskeletal appointment at the start of December, which was after the tribunals decision. They told me there is nothing they can do with the pain but manage with painkillers or a pain psychologist to discuss pain management strategies. They know I have tried countless treatments in the past, physiotherapist and pain management but has never helped. I have a report from them stating all this.

The judge kept saying that I have had no specialist input and interventions for both my mental and physical problems at this very moment, but I have had all these in the past.

Im afraid to go to UT now as I have nobody to represent me. 

ncor

There was a few discrepancies that I need looked over by a professional. I’m confused about what to do now or who to turn to, is there anything you may be able to suggest? 

ncor

I don’t feel comfortable or confident in doing this by myself, I’m getting confused about it all and very scared, although I would like to pursue further, I am physically and mentally unable to do so without professional help, so think I may just have to leave it.

onebigvoice

Username_removed said:

I think you could make a decent fist of a UT application simply by saying 

“The tribunal erred in law by addressing issues of entitlement when the appeal was clearly confined to only award length”.

“The tribunal fettered their own discretion by asserting they would never make a long award to someone of my age”.

”The tribunal have erred in law by assuming that “no specialist input” is indicative of a low level of need.”

Not worth over-thinking. Regional office judge will usually initially refuse leave so you end up having to make a further application direct to London. Three potential errors of law should give them more than enough to contemplate. 

  I am afraid that there are some that do not understand the legal system very well.
  While I appreciate your comments on how to further this claim, not everyone grasps what is being said,  perhaps in plain English? 

   

onebigvoice

[Removed by moderator]

calcotti

onebigvoice said:

[Removed by moderator]

While nor is uncomfortable proceeding without support I can't see anything that has been said to indicate that this is because Mike hasn't written in 'plain english' as you suggest.

Tori_Scope

Sorry if you've explained this elsewhere, as I'm not complete up to date with this thread @ncor, but are there any other sources of expert advice in your area that you'd be able to access? I can appreciate that this can be a difficult and confusing process to navigate, however, and that you might not feel up to taking it on at the moment. Are you able to lean on your family, such as your brother, for emotional support? 

poppy123456

onebigvoice said:

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In all honesty, having been a member of the community for 4 years i've never experienced Mike giving anything but perfectly clear advice.

poppy123456

It won't be the first time Mike. I've reported comments this week and needless to say those comments are still there.

ncor

Hi, sorry for the delayed reply again. It just seems a bit overwhelming for me to go UT by myself, my Brother is there to help me but UT seems so scary and definitely think I would need professional help. Very anxious about asking other welfare rights as 2 have already told me I should be happy with what I have and wait to re-apply again when the time comes. This is without them looking at any of the paperwork etc. 

ncor

Also can I add that Mikes advice has been invaluable on this post and any other post he has advised on, very much appreciated and grateful for.

chiarieds

Hi @ncor - as a lay person, if I've got it right, then you just initially write to your tribunal asking for 'permission to appeal,' due to the 3 errors in law as Mike gave above. See here: https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal/how-to-appeal  Whether granted, or not, you would then complete the same UT1 form: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-ut1-application-for-permission-to-appeal-to-an-upper-tribunal-judge-and-notice-of-appeal-for-social-security-child-support-tax-credits-housin

Just to say I've followed this thread hoping you get the right outcome. I can imagine it's stressful, but, if you could get a 10 year award, then you wouldn't have to go through future PIP reviews as often. Perhaps try the first stage, as you have nothing to lose.

Sorry, I've been writing this whilst Mike has already replied, so yes, I add my 'you can do this.'

chiarieds

Hmmm, a little while ago a new member said about myself (their language), 'i'm sorry but it is you that has got thing ars over tit if you read the post properly instead of being a know it all.' Altho a member of the Scope team commented, the remark remained, & altho I found both the language & comment offensive, it was considered only a 'borderline' personal attack, tho in 'poor' tone.

I've also read the comments that Poppy mentions....definitely personal attacks against her. But, hey, new/newish posters are always right.

poppy123456

This week I have actually reported the same comments twice yet they still remain. I even asked for my name to be removed from one of them by a new member that gave me abuse but my request was ignored and admin commented on the thread. Threads have been closed and no explanation from admin.
Ive also noticed that sometimes new/er members can do no wrong and it’s perfectly ok for them to speak down to other members that are just giving advice. It’s wrong! 

Adrian_Scope

Hi all,

I don't want to close this thread as @ncor is getting some very useful advice and it is mostly remaining on topic. I'll try not to derail it much further, but feel the need to address the side conversation.

Regarding moderation:
We've been accused in the past of being reactionary and moderating comments just because they've been reported, but now it seems that we're being accused of ignoring reports. In fact, we're actually being accused of both simultaneously!

When a comment is reported, the team will attempt a detailed review of the comment itself and the context around it. Reports are never ignored and no decisions are ever made haphazardly or without wider consideration. Are we always going to get it right? No. Is everyone always going to like every decision we make? No. But I can guarantee you that the team always go to great pains to be impartial, while being mindful of the different thoughts and feelings of the various people involved in the community.

Per my comment earlier in the week, we are witnessing an increase in microaggressions and sniping. We're yet again receiving a constant deluge of reports and we are hearing that people on all sides are upset. The general atmosphere of the community has again become very negative. We want open discussion and so we don't want to police comments too tightly, but while many remarks are so discreet and so passive aggressive that they do not directly breach our house rules, they are hurtful, dismissive, and even intolerant. These stack up and have a persistent impact on people.

To quote myself:
"When making a post, ask yourself, 'why am I posting this?' Are you posting to make a dig at someone, are you trying to make someone else feel bad or chastened? If so, don't post it. It's not welcome and it will be removed."

poppy123456 said:

This week I have actually reported the same comments twice yet they still remain. I even asked for my name to be removed from one of them by a new member that gave me abuse but my request was ignored and admin commented on the thread. Threads have been closed and no explanation from admin.
Ive also noticed that sometimes new/er members can do no wrong and it’s perfectly ok for them to speak down to other members that are just giving advice. It’s wrong! 

I've looked through the reported comments posts and the ones I can find that you've reported were edited the same day and the member issued with a nudge/warning. If there's something you feel we've missed, please let me know. 
I'm not on the community as much as I'd like at the moment but I haven't seen discussions closed with no explanation, unless they are closed pending review.

@Username_removed: with regards to the comment you've reported, this was reviewed by the team and it was felt it didn't breach the house rules. It isn't the friendliest perhaps, but it doesn't appear to have been done as an attack. To be honest, I notice members old and new quite often tell others to read something properly or read it again. I'm not a massive fan of it either. However, while the previously mentioned remark doesn't typically break our rules, I am mindful of our new approach of being tough on anything that might be considered 'snipey' and so we will retroactively remove it.