MR phonecall questions

rosie118

poppy123456 said:

So you have an award currently of Standard mobility and scored points in 1E. A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied.

Can you go out with another person the majority of the time?

Thankyou so much for just talking this through with me I really appreciate it. 

I think I should be on 1F, not 1E. I very very rarely go out on my own, I'm talking like twice a year maybe and then I'm exhausted after. I always need someone with me and lean on them very much to steer me through. 

Just yesterday I was out with my partner and went to just walk across a road when a car was coming and she had to shout stop. She asked if I was going to cross and I said yeah, I hadn't registered the car at all. I've explained all that in the forms that I'm not safe out on my own and can't handle processing everything. On the walk for autism I came across someone cutting their lawn and hit sensory overload and then can barely find my way home. 

I very much need to be with someone who guides me through being outside. Having said that I can leave with other people. It does still tire me but nowhere near as much. 

rosie118

I did use to go out on my own and got public transport. I ended up losing the ability to walk through Neurological Functional Disorder. I can walk now and fought to regain it but the doctors made it clear I was pushing myself too hard and to readjust my life to fit what I can do. I was having panic attacks and sensory overload back to back. Nearly getting hit by cars etc etc. 

Now I work from home and at the time leaned on my mum to do meals for me. Now my partner helps. 

All the woman cared about was 'how can I be an accountant and can't cope with basic daily things'. 

poppy123456

I'm always happy to help, it's not a problem at all The most important question regarding the mobility part, which you haven't answered is... Are you unable to go outside the majority of the time because of overwhelming pyschological distress, even with another person?

rosie118

poppy123456 said:

I'm always happy to help, it's not a problem at all The most important question regarding the mobility part, which you haven't answered is... Are you unable to go outside the majority of the time because of overwhelming pyschological distress, even with another person?

No, I'm not unable when I have someone. Very rarely am I completely unable to leave the house. The vast majority of the time I can as long as I have someone supporting me (Partner, parent or sibling). 

rosie118

Just got the MR decision letter through the door. 

Living:
4 points for mixing with other people. 
Mobility:
10 for can't leave the home because of psychological distress. 

Nothing for preparing food or taking medication. And no movement on being unable to leave the house alone. 

Beyond frustrating. 

coralfang

Ah i know what you mean rosie it is so frustrating trying to make them understand, sometimes you dont have the rationale for why you do or are unable to do something also, it's just how your brain is wired/how your mind is working?

 at least they have scored you points around not being able to leave the house though, i think if you went to MR you'd have a good chance of gaining additional points for the bits they didn't score you on. i actually got 0 points for not being able to leave the house with OPD purely because i am able to, occasionally, go to my mums house a few doors down in the same road, with her speaking to me beforehand/during on the phone and waiting for me at her gate/door, despite me not being able to go out alone 99% of the time (to shops or any location, i wouldn't have classed going to her house a few doors away as a proper journey?) 

rosie118

coralfang said:

Ah i know what you mean rosie it is so frustrating trying to make them understand, sometimes you dont have the rationale for why you do or are unable to do something also, it's just how your brain is wired/how your mind is working?

 at least they have scored you points around not being able to leave the house though, i think if you went to MR you'd have a good chance of gaining additional points for the bits they didn't score you on. i actually got 0 points for not being able to leave the house with OPD purely because i am able to, occasionally, go to my mums house a few doors down in the same road, with her speaking to me beforehand/during on the phone and waiting for me at her gate/door, despite me not being able to go out alone 99% of the time (to shops or any location, i wouldn't have classed going to her house a few doors away as a proper journey?) 

Thanks for the reply. It's honestly this forum that is keeping me sane through all this. 

This was the MR decision. She has literally said that 'I said I liked playing video games so I can cook dinner'. They ask you a simple question like 'what do you like doing?' to which I panic and try to sound like I actually do something and say 'gaming'. Then they twist it. They don't ask how I cope with that or how it goes. If she did I would explain that I only game with my brother and the last time I tried I had to shut down the game because it was a new game and I got overwhelmed at learning all the new stuff. I ended up going to bed crying! Prior to that I play with him but frequently get frustrated and cry because I can't keep up or do it all because its live and you need to process so much so quickly. 
But of course they don't give you a chance to explain. Everything in my life is done differently, and/or with support. But they don't stop to think about that. Just assume I'm happy as larry to play games all day long by myself. 

Sorry, very frustrated at this whole thing. 
Fed up of fighting. 

rosie118

The MR letter ended by saying 'we have decided you can complete this activity unaided or have the ability to learn to do so'. 

So basically I have a degree so I'm too intelligent to be disabled by something. This system is a joke. Disabled people, including non-physical disabilities, can be smart! And still disabled! 

coralfang

ah sorry yes my fault, i didn't see it was the MR decision sorry.

yes they asked me the same question, i couldn't actually think of any hobbies because i don't really do anything, i feel like i've kind of lost my identity especially since covid, everything i used to enjoy doing, i don't do anymore or can't do anymore, and it sounds quite pathetic doesn't it but i was being honest with her on the phone but she put i liked to read books. i haven't read a book in ages although i have listened to a few audio books over the years as they are quite relaxing, but i didn't actually mention that to her as my mind went blank.

its hard when they assume you can do something because you can eat with a knife/fork or hold something with grip, yes i can, but that doesn't mean i can do the task because my mental health impairs me from doing it, nothing to do with my physical body capability.

try to keep positive, you will get there in the end. this forum has been very helpful for me even though  i don't contribute much!

rosie118

@coralfang Yeah i know what you mean. I haven't played games in about a year. But it's my go to kind of scripted answer to what hobbies do I have. I didn't expect it to be spun against me. 

And that's exactly right with comparing tasks. She said if I can sit and do my job I can cook. But no I can't? I left a job that was time pressured and intense because I couldn't cope with needing to do things now. The job I have at the moment just last week I didn't get Fridays tasks done as i was struggling, so i did them Sunday. I constantly walk away from my desk and back to it so i can focus again and anything new my partner talks through with me because I struggle to process it. You can't do that with cooking! It is in the moment processing and that is what overwhelms me. 

I guess the next step is to seek an advisor. I'm hoping they can tell me if it is worth taking to tribunal or not. I saw someone on here once say they requested it online so I'll try and find that link as that will be easier. 

poppy123456

People do work and claim PIP but if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming PIP then it can go against you. I'm not saying this is the case for you though.

To get further expert advice from an agency near you see this link. Put your postcode in and choose the topic "welfare benefits" https://advicelocal.uk/ if you can get representation then even better.

Request the Tribunal here. https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal

One last thing, i know you said you gave real world examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity because anecdotal evidence will be the best you can send. Make sure you haven't confused anecdotal with an assertion.

rosie118

@poppy123456 Thanks so much for the links I really appreciate you finding them. This whole thing is so overwhelming. 

rosie118

Well I've submitted the tribunal appeal. 

I haven't appealed the living. I honestly don't have it in me to fight it. I've just appealed the mobility decision as not only is it less points but it's wrong. I've been clear that I can leave the house but I need someone with me. I hate relying on my partner and brother but that is my life and it's not fair that this process doesn't reflect that. 

I feel like leaving the house is more objective and easier to fight my side than them tying me in knots with food prep scenarios. And harder for them to use my job (work from home, inc pre pandemic) against me. 

See what happens I guess. 

poppy123456

rosie118 said:

Well I've submitted the tribunal appeal. 

I haven't appealed the living. I honestly don't have it in me to fight it. I've just appealed the mobility decision as not only is it less points but it's wrong.

I don't understand your reasons for this. If you're appealing the mobility part and think you should have been awarded the daily living part then why not appeal both?

Even if you're awarded 4 points for preparing a meal with assistance/supervision, rather than the full 8 points, surely you'll be entitled to points for other activies? Which could get you at least a standard daily living award but potentially Enhanced daily living.

For example, dressing/undressing, Autistic people don't like change, they often like to wear the same clothes everyday. (my daughter does) Do you need prompting to change your clothes because you don't understand when they are dirty or you just don't realise this so continue to wear them regardless?

Engaging with others face to face. Do you need social support from another person to be able to engage with others. This doesn't include family members that you normally engage with. If you were in a room with other people would you be able to sit there and have a conversation with them or would you just sit there and not say a word? Maybe you can't engage with others at all because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress?

You need to fully explain why you can't do those activities and what happened the last time you attempted them. Adding information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

The Tribunal are totally different to DWP and the health assessment providers. They are mostly very understanding.

Have you put your postcode into the link i provided above to see what's local to you for expert advice and hopefully representation?

rosie118

@Username_removed
@poppy123456

You guys are both right. It's almost like I'm autistic and got overwhelmed by the whole thing and freaked out huh. But you are right and I should stand my ground with what I know is right. I'm just tired. Like not oh i'm tired, i'm to my core just exhausted from PIP. 

I have added further explanation to my appeal and said I was overwhelmed and just wanted to be heard on part of it atleast instead of not believed. But that I do want it reviewed in its entirety by someone that understands autism. I've given further information and explained yet again about food and various other things. Essentially just walked through my life for the last 4 years. I have nothing to hide. 

I know autism is hard to understand. But that doesn't mean i am lying. 

Thanks for your support. I think the 'tough love' approach here was what I needed. 

poppy123456

rosie118 said:

I know autism is hard to understand. But that doesn't mean i am lying. 

You're still missing the point that was trying to get accross earlier in the thread. No one needs to understand Autism or any other condition. PIP is not awarded based on any diagnosis. Autism is a huge spectrum and people are affected in so many different ways. It's your responsibility to tell them how your conditions affect you in relation to the PIP descriptors and anedotal evidence will be the best you can send.

rosie118

poppy123456 said:

rosie118 said:

I know autism is hard to understand. But that doesn't mean i am lying. 

You're still missing the point that was trying to get accross earlier in the thread. No one needs to understand Autism or any other condition. PIP is not awarded based on any diagnosis. Autism is a huge spectrum and people are affected in so many different ways. It's your responsibility to tell them how your conditions affect you in relation to the PIP descriptors and anedotal evidence will be the best you can send.

As I have said - i have done this. Over and over again. Gone into detail, given loads of examples of what happens. her response was, 'but that's not autism'. 

She is making it about autism. She was refusing to accept my experience to be true in relation to autism. 

I have done what you have said. In the first form, in the MR letter, on the phone. I have explained why I can't and what happens if i try. I have given real world example of trying and not being able to. 

poppy123456

All of that is in the past and you need to move on now. You are at Tribunal stage and they are a lot more understanding.

rosie118

@poppy123456 Yeah true. I feel like i have run out of steam at the most important part. I am so demoralised and exhausted from it so far. And this is the bit where i really need to focus on getting my points across as they may actually understand. 

Thanks for the support. 

rosie118

Username_removed said:

Yours is a case which screams that you need competent representation. Not every case needs a rep. You do. Simple as that. 

Your anecdotal evidence has not hit home no matter the quantity so you need to let an expert step in and do that for you. Additionally you describe being exhausted by the process and, again, why not let a rep take that weight? It’s what they’re for. 

I agree. I am in the process of trying to get representation. I'm not sure it aids the exhaustion because I will have to explain everything to them and communicate with them. But at least it will increase the odds that I am understood and using the 'right' language to get across my points. 

I agree that I am clearly not doing something right thus far! Which isn't really surprising that I would struggle in communicating my points. So yes I am trying to get someone to support that.