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How do we get heard?

onebigvoice Member Posts: 210 Courageous
I have been fighting DWP for correct benefit entitlements for many years, yet one or two things remain constant.
1. in winning a case the assessor or the Decision Maker never get taken to task and if in most cases that I win its about the content of the Assessment.
  If you win a case in a Tribunal where the report cannot or is not used because of the number of errors it contains and is thrown out and a paper exercise is done based on the medical evidence given by you, why before the new certificate of entitlement is issued, are you not contacted by the Tribunal to state this and only receive a letter stating from them to say that a revised decision in favour of the appellant has been made and therefore this case is now closed?
  The assessor is allowed to continue assessing even though the report is of a poor standard and does not follow the rules of report writing or its eventual use.
  I have received in the last year, where my date for back payments have changed 5 times, 5 different certificates of entitlement, and because the offer has been revised, irrespective of amount, I can't question or receive an explanation of the reason?
  A letter again outlining my case from the DWP complaints resolution team back to September 2020 where now states that we made you a more favourable offer then and 5 times since when asking for the reason for the new certificate issue.  I know why?  since I asked the same question every time.
  The judge at the April 2021 Tribunal asked these questions of the Secretary of State to explain and there reply was zero, they did not reply within the 10 days given, or the 21 days given as an extension.  They sent a letter today stating again at that time a more favourable offer was made to the court, ( Which I did not get or receive from them)  So in order to pursue the claim further I need to approach ICE.
  This was done in 2014, 2016, and again in 2019, all the report stated the same thing, there were serious Typos and Grammatical errors on the case, yet they would not write to the DWP they sent the letter to me to say if I wanted to pursue this case further to contact them direct?

  END:  In order to get anything changed you can't since the Tribunal will not enforce any ruling that they make.
  The altering of documents on behalf of the DWP and the Secretary of State remain unaltered even when proven to be incorrect or forged on their side.
  The assessor will continue to give unsupported reports to the DWP/SS and the Decision Maker will continue to use them even when proven to be incorrect.
  If you get back pay, its only what is owed to you, and at a rate that they decide to give to you, and at a start date and finish date that they decide.   
  Some one I spoke to on Friday Last week, has a phone assessment tomorrow (Friday) and is not taking the call because he is not willing to go through any more stress, and is ringing them to close his claim down and not claim anything?  Just been diagnosed with COPD, I say just it was 1 1/2 years ago and now has become worse that he is rarely seen out of bed, because of his other problems including Walking and Depression to name others diagnosed.
  Who do you complain to when inviting MP's, the First Minister, after a marvellous speech about how thing are getting better, yet we all remain with no doctors appointments, no dental care treatment, no hospital appointments all on the back burner?


  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,780 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 8
    1 - There are a small number of cases where it turns on a HCP report but it’s very small indeed. The overwhelming majority of appeals turn on anecdotal evidence and have done for decades.

    2 - Tribunals do not exclude evidence other than in the most extraordinary circumstances. HCP reports are never “thrown out”. They are simply given less weight. 

    3 - There is no “paper exercise” unless you have elected for a paper hearing. Disability benefits appeal tribunals overwhelmingly turn on anecdotal evidence. 

    4 - A tribunal would never contact you to tell you that a HCP report had been excluded because they never do that. Nor would they tell you it had been given less weight because there is no requirement to do so. 

    That is explicitly because a HCP report is simply one of many pieces of evidence to be weighed. If you win, why would you actually care how every single piece of evidence was weighed? Why would you think that a sensible proportionate use of time when tribunals are not paid to produce summary decisions? How would a tribunal avoid endless further appeals by any party who disliked the specific weighting of each item? Your suggestion is illegal and untenable. 

    5 - you have a misguided obsession with HCPs and process. Your energies would be better focused on anecdotal evidence. If one were to disbar a HCP for every report which contained an error why would you not ban claimants from further claims when they mess up their PIP 2 or ESA50? Logically you’d also want to report every GP whose factual report was incomplete? 

    Tribunals are determined on the balance of probabilities. The fact a piece of evidence was discredited in any small or large way does not mean anything terrible has happened or that serious consequences for a HCP should follow.

    6 - I have no idea what the “rules of report writing” are or why you think they are relevant. There is no such thing for social security. Provided a HCP report is fully completed and has not been flagged for audit then it’s fine. An SSCS1 form or a written submission are your opportunity to challenge. 

    7 - Can’t comment on 5 offers etc. as your explanation is insufficiently clear. I strongly recommend reading your own posts before you post. You may then begin to spot these issues. 

    8 - I have no idea why you keep referring to a court. These appeals are determined by tribunals. An entirely different thing. 

    9 - Tribunals are not there to advocate on your behalf to DWP. They are 100% correct to refuse to do so.

    10 - It is not that tribunals will not enforce their decisions. Their decision replaces that of a decision maker. If that DM refuses to implement the decision as written you have multiple remedies open to you and that will often include returning to an appeal hearing where specified. However, a letter before action is I ally ends any intransigence. 

    11 - I suggest you withdraw your public accusation of forgery. That is an extraordinary accusation. It would be easy to prove in most cases. I presume you have solid evidence of this and have reported it to the police?

    The answer to your question is of course that no-one will hear you if the things you say suggest you don’t yet understand the thing you’re complaining about.  
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Member Posts: 210 Courageous
    I have looked at the topic heading and would like to comment to those here:
      I had the Zoom meeting on Friday 19th with an MP and AM in Cardiff, which was very beneficial to me/us all.
      I was allowed to put a case as to the number of things " wrong with the system of assessment" and allowed to pose questions about what actually is or is not a legal document when talking about assessments and the processes involved, and the Tribunal System and what that entails.
      This meant looking at the Charters set out by Parliament, for all of the above.
      With the permission of the last 6 cases that I have looked at, and asked them to look at the documentation given by the Secretary of State as evidence in each case to remove benefits before I gave them the recent results of those cases and the time to resolve each case.
      The bottom line is that they will be in London on Tuesday and have been allowed to make up a list of questions that will be presented to the chief Whip at Question time there.
      I know that the main questions I want to ask are about procedural changes to the law.
      There is also the question of what is a legal document and why when medical information is sent in with the From and information gathering that the DWP and PIP's have, why the assessment companies do not follow the same rules.
      In writing a program in power point I would like to invite any one here who want their complaints about how the assessment system has removed, changed or just caused so much stress in form filling that you feel like giving up and except offers made over the phone prior to a Tribunal or zoom/telephone assessment?  In other words they offer you standard rate and because they have paid you nothing for months the back pay amounts to Thousands of Pounds and seems like a good deal at the time.
      If you do send in any thing you do not have to use your real names although this would be only for me to start up a file, and allow me to contact you to ask only about your issues to collate them into a history of complaints against the assessment system.
      So along the Lines of Name: OBV.
    When did you apply:  PIP's 2 1st Jan 2015.
      When did you have a change in benefits or a letter saying at this time we cannot pay you, from Date to Date 
    Did you reapply?  Yes/No.
    What was the date and result, Same non-Payment.  lower rate after months of nothing.
    Are you in receipt of benefits now?  Yes/NO
    Did you send in medical evidence and an up to date prescription list.
     Can you give a brief description of your illnesses, including treatment now or pending. 

    I already have changed their outlook at this being an isolated incident or case since I have supplied verbally at the meeting case after case of maladministration.
      The money you get in back payment is money that is owed to you, so getting you to except these " eleventh hour " calls with out a hard copy is just cutting their losses and your entitlements.
      Here is one question:  It is a sackable offence to be on site with the NHS without you badge or picture ID on display, so why when being assessed at a face to face interview do they not wear ID's or when challenged have to go look for them?
      One rule for one, or are they hiding behind the data protection act?  There Charter states they must wear them at all times, so how many have had F2F interviews and seen ID?
      The bill on Tuesday in parliament is as before allowing Private companies to be on the board to discuss contracts and who gets what?
      The NHS is a public concern and should stay that way.
    My fixation is with the law side of our assessment, so when I go to a Health Care Assessment Centre I expect the people that work there are qualified to do so.  This rebranding has come about recently since it has nothing to do with care.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,780 Disability Gamechanger
    Let’s be clear. You have changed no-ones outlook. The W&P committee commented in 2018 at there was an issue with a significant minority of reports so nothing new there. As for your questions… please ensure you post a link to both the questions and answers. I have my popcorn ready. 

    No, it is not a sackable offence to not wear ID and as many HCPs are not employed by the NHS at all I don’t see that there’s an analogy to be drawn anyway. 

    “My HCP did not wear ID” is not and never will be a winning strategy for PIP as your own case has amply demonstrated.

    To say that you’re fixated on the legal element of this when your posts repeatedly show no grasp of the legal element and you obsess on things like ID is entirely contradictory. In reality you’re obsessed with a medical dimension to PIP which simply doesn’t exist. 


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