Will some of us lose out

janer1967

After the announcement about the support from gov for increase in energy cost and watching Martin Lewis earlier

My understanding is that the £150 rebate on council tax won't be applied to those getting council tax reduction eg if they pay no council tax 

I get that if they don't pay CT then they cant give rebate but again that means lots of disabled people are missing out 

Does this mean for example if your annual bill is £80 you would get that rebate 

They did mention a discretionary fund to local councils for those on low income 

I might have got this all wrong but is what my understanding is so don't shout at me just correct me if I'm wrong 

If I'm right what are your thoughts 

Sandy_123

Its a lot to take in with it all Jane, the council tax the 200 pound towards energy costs and so on. I pay council tax  at a reduced rate
Its all on question time now bbc

woodbine

The £200 electricity rebate paid in October this year is basically a loan to be repaid at £40 a year from 2023 for 5 years, although they did fail to mention that the energy cap could increase again by 25% later this year.

As for the £150 council tax refund which won't have to be repaid thats not as clear, as it varies by council how much you pay in our area its only 10% whilst 2 miles down the road under another council its 50%, it would be nice to think that whatever you pay at least that amount will be discounted.

I suspect more will come out tomorrow?

calcotti

janer1967 said:

My understanding is that the £150 rebate on council tax won't be applied to those getting council tax reduction eg if they pay no council tax 

I get that if they don't pay CT then they cant give rebate but again that means lots of disabled people are missing out 

Does this mean for example if your annual bill is £80 you would get that rebate 

They did mention a discretionary fund to local councils for those on low income 

The chancellor’s response to that is that local authorities will have the discretionary fund you refer to which can be used to support those who haven’t benefited from the Council Tax rebate.

Who benefits from that fund will depend on how councils use it. Obviously the administration of these funds involves local authorities in extra work (and administrative costs). Where I live two adjoining local authorities have adopted completely different approaches to using the current winter discretionary fund. One requires people to apply for help and to include full financial income etc (much like applying for a Discretionary Housing Payment). The other has simply decided to pass the money on to people who receive Housing Benefit and/or Council Tax Reduction by providing them with vouchers of various kinds.

(The disadvantage of the latter approach is that there are many people not eligible for CTR who would be eligible for HB except for the fact that they receive help with rent through UC, these claimants will not be known to the local authority.)

TheAlien

For the last two years, my CT has been zeroed by the council due to the pandemic.  I was paying about £149 a year, at the start of the pandemic they decided all working age households in receipt of CTR would get £150 off their bill.  It hasn't been announced what they're doing this year, but I doubt they'll continue with the pandemic rebate.

As for the energy loan, I've never known energy bill come down, and I'd like to be given the option of not having it.  There's no guarantee that energy will be any cheaper when the loan repayments fall due, or that people will be able to afford the repayments.  To my mind, its an empty gesture and just storing up hardship further down the line.  Also, what happens if you change supplier for any reason in those 5 years?

janer1967

Also on Martin Lewis show it said anyone who pays energy bills in future but not currently would still have to pay the £40 per year back even if they didnt get the rebate eg someone who is still living at home with parents but then in 2 years time get their own place and pay energy bill will have to pay the £40 charge even though they didn't take the loan 

So the parents will pay the loan and then the child who moved out will pay it too 

Mmm doesn't sound right to me 

I know it's early days and lots to work out bur already lots of what if questions 

TheAlien

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like a government con trick.

calcotti

TheAlien said:

For the last two years, my CT has been zeroed by the council due to the pandemic.  ... I doubt they'll continue with the pandemic rebate.

The new rebate announced yesterday is effectively a continuation of the same rebate scheme for another year.

calcotti

janer1967 said:...anyone who pays energy bills in future but not currently would still have to pay the £40 per year back even if they didnt get the rebate eg 
....

Mmm doesn't sound right to me 

There’s no way round that. Fuel customers in October will get the ‘loan’ in October, it will be repaid by increased standing charges for customers from 2023 onwards (unless of course it’s too politically sensitive at the time in which case change should might be made). There will be those, as you say, who have to pay increased bills in the future who did not benefit from the £200. There will also be people who get the £200 who never pay it back because in the interim they’ve died. 

SueHeath

I am "trying" to go with the flow, as a lot of this is out of our hands but i am really worried about it all.
I've never known any thing like this in our country, the nearest i can remember was back when we had lots of strikes and when interest rates were at a 15% high, money was tight then.
It just feels that we should be happy that things are getting a bit better with the pandemic, but were all being hit with this, another big worry.
I think we are going to see a lot more businesses go under.

janer1967

@calcotti I get that it works both ways some people will not pay the loan back . 

I don't like the concept of being forced to take a loan I never asked for .

I don't know an alternative solution and doing it this way at least means the money will be spent on energy by everyone and there ars always pros and cons to everything 

In my opinion and its only my opinion the gov think they may win the nations trust back doing this but in reality could do the opposite when people realise the reality of the scheme 

woodbine

Our electric bill is currently is currently £450 a year so if it goes up by 50% it will be £675 the £200 loan will bring it back to what it is now and I get it that this will have to be repaid over 5 years a period when it's quite possible wholesale prices will drop, we will have to wait and see.
We are off grid for gas so have to use bottled LPG and for that we are at the mercy of the suppliers and that went up 25% last November and it has never been capped.
Add on the £150 council tax rebate and in all honesty I don't think it's a bad deal.

janer1967

@woodbine I agree it will be good for some but not everyone 

For myself for example my bill is about £950 ,for both so will increase by £475 approx I will get the £200 in Oct to be paid back but I won't get the £150 council tax as my ct bill is only about £80 with ctr so even if I get £80 rebate cost will still be around £200 more next year 

I'm not complaining as we all expected this and don't expect the gov to cover all the cost but just giving a diffetent example 

And in reality with the £200 being a loan I may not get any support at all if I am not eligible for the ct rebate 

janer1967

My view is that it was supposed to be something to help the low income bracket but.in reality if they get ctr they may not benefit 

Disabled are a group of people who benefit from ctr and thus may not benefit from the rebate 

MarkM88

If the £150 works anything like the pandemic support then it would either be if you had paid anything already it would be refunded and the balance set at £0. If you hadn’t paid anything and you have a balance still then it would just reduce. 

For example, the first time in terms of the CT pandemic payment I had paid my full amount of £165 and I was refunded £150. 

The second time it was just added to the bill calculations so it was shown as a minus and my overall CT was like £15 to pay. 

poppy123456

My local Authority extended the support for an extra year so i haven't paid anything since the start of the pandemic. I'm not expecting to pay anything for 2022/23 either because of this extra £150. Normally i would pay about £9ish per month.

calcotti

janer1967 said:

My view is that it was supposed to be something to help the low income bracket but.in reality if they get ctr they may not benefit 

It will depend on how local authorities use the discretionary fund.

I still can’t decide whether this is a sensible proposition in terms of a pragmatic way of distributing money or very badly targeted. I am a fortunate person who will get the £150 but can manage quite comfortably without it - perhaps I’ll donate it to a food bank.

janer1967

Sorry to keep adding stuff but another question that may get asked 

What if you are with 2 different energy suppliers eg one for gas and different one for electric do you get the loan twice ? 

@poppy123456 your roughly same as me with council tax so what happens to the other £60 as you bill is less than the £150 allowance 

Don't get me wrong I'm very grateful for ct reduction and my other benefits and I know whatever the gov do won't please everyone 

I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out for everyone a few things that have crossed my mind about it all 

woodbine

@janer1967 I think that the £200 will be deducted from electricity accounts as almost everybody has electricity whilst some people don't have gas, one other factor in April all benefits will increase by 3.1% (as far as I can see), and whilst that is below inflation it's the biggest rise for some time.

SueHeath

I agree with you @woodbine we wont see the money it will go directly to the suppliers to take off customers accounts. Yep think it is a 3.1% rise - going by hubby's pension.

leeCal

The rise of 3.1% will be lower than inflation which the BOE has predicted will be around 7% unfortunately.