What can be done about lying PIP assessors?

VippidyP

Hey, I'm new here, I suffer with mental health issues. 

I've had a PIP claim before that ended up being overturned by the tribunal. The assessor just outright lied about me and I scored all 0.

I had to renew my claim and the exact same thing happened again. 

I understand how to appeal, that's not what I'm looking for advice on. 

What I'm interested in is what can I do to make sure the assessor gets punished for lying? How can we, as a community, stop this from happening? How do I ensure they can't do this to somebody else?

VippidyP

Honestly, that is actually comforting to hear. 

I've had a very different experience. One assessor claimed that I walk my dog every day, when I didn't even have a dog. And that I attended the assessment alone, when I did not. I've had them claim I've made statements that I just haven't made.

It's not hard to find other people with similar experiences, although I hope you're right about them being the minority. I remember reading that as many as two thirds of overturned claims involved assessors lying?

I have nothing specific in mind, but if they don't face consequences then what's actually stopping them from doing it.
I'm asking what can I do to prevent this person from doing the same to someone else?

janer1967

Hi and welcome to the community 

It's not easy to prove they have lied as the report the submit is their opinion of how you function against the descriptors based on your assessment and application 

As above I'm not saying it doesn't happen sometimes a claimants opinion and the assessors vary 

In your case regarding the dog walking you need to explain that there has been a discrepancy by following the appeal process 

You can also lodge a complaint with the assessment provider and hopefully the more people do this may result in action to prevent this in future . Though from what you read these complaints don't seem to go anywhere 

My assessments have always been a true reflection 

VippidyP

woodbine said:

You might be confusing the fact that a high % get overturned at tribunal.

This is what I remember reading; https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-welfare-expert-says-two-thirds-of-appeals-involve-lying-assessors/

But that's neither here nor there, given that I've been blatantly lied about, what can I, and others like me, do to see justice done? How can we prevent this from happening in the future? 

If there's no actual consequences, then there's nothing preventing it. 

AndrewHall

VippidyP said:

woodbine said:

You might be confusing the fact that a high % get overturned at tribunal.

This is what I remember reading; https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-welfare-expert-says-two-thirds-of-appeals-involve-lying-assessors/

But that's neither here nor there, given that I've been blatantly lied about, what can I, and others like me, do to see justice done? How can we prevent this from happening in the future? 

If there's no actual consequences, then there's nothing preventing it. 

I very much agree that something must be done to minimise the discrepancies in the assessment report. Unfortunately, you won't get much support from those who are happy to be awarded.
Fortunately,  the Tribunal is aware assessment reports are not factual reflection of the realities.  All we can do is keep appealing the DWP decision to the Tribunal..

calcotti

If you wish to you can make a complaint to the health provider.

AndrewHall

Username_removed said:

Legally you cannot demonstrate a lie. Only that the report contained factual inaccuracies. HCPs have no reason to lie but they also work under incredible pressure. Mistakes will be made; wrong boxes will be ticked; phrases will be used which applied to the person before you but not you. It’s accepted that the occasions this happens are a significant minority. That needs to reduce to a small minority. 

How do you do that? Well if you focus on lies then any complaint will fail. If you focus on factual inaccuracies you may get changes to your report. Occasionally you may even get changes in the recommended points. Not always for the better. Will any of that change anything for other people? I doubt it. Could the community help in some way? I can’t see it. The best thing you can do is get your own house in order and make sure people have a clear idea of their options. 

On another Ievel though there is lots for you to think about and do. A decision is not just based on a HCP report.

If your claim failed twice then you need to look at your claim pack. If it was good enough and focused on the right areas then it’s much harder for a HCP assessment to go wrong and much harder for a DM to accept. If you did your renewal the same way you did your original claim and both failed then eventually you have to ask questions about your claim pack rather than the HCP report. An instant change to think about would be asking for an ongoing award. If you didn’t ask then the guidance always points to short awards. It’s up to you to make the case. Why go through it every 2 to 5 years if it was within your power to make that 10.

Awesome. 
One thing I have learnt from Mike [removed by moderator] is, no good just focusing on the negatives when making complaints or appeals. 
I just briefly point out inaccuracies and spend more time stating my desired outcome, it works everytime.
Using this technique, I have got many adverse decisions reviewed, set aside or overturned.
Yes, rhe assessors are under pressure from DWP to keep the numbers of claimants down.
Rather that looking for "lies" in the report, look for what the HCP could have done to understand your circumstances better. 

calcotti

AndrewHall said: Yes, rhe assessors are under pressure from DWP to keep the numbers of claimants down.

Do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

AndrewHall

calcotti said:

AndrewHall said: Yes, rhe assessors are under pressure from DWP to keep the numbers of claimants down.

Do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

I have a friend who is an assessor. He has no reason to lie to me. 

chiarieds

Rather surprised at you @AndrewHall - as someone who has previously said how good Mike's advice is. A shame to try & perpetuate this lie on a forum that tries to help disabled people.

AndrewHall

@Username_removed yes, I meant "successful claimants".)

There was a time I rang DWP asking for MR. The case Manager said he would accept my request over the phone. I said "NO", I will make further submission on how I met the descriptors because I felt the HCP report is not complete and misleading. While it is true I could walk up to 200m, I can't do it reliably. I won the MR. 

Johnjo5555

VippidyP said:

Hey, I'm new here, I suffer with mental health issues. 

I've had a PIP claim before that ended up being overturned by the tribunal. The assessor just outright lied about me and I scored all 0.

I had to renew my claim and the exact same thing happened again. 

I understand how to appeal, that's not what I'm looking for advice on. 

What I'm interested in is what can I do to make sure the assessor gets punished for lying? How can we, as a community, stop this from happening? How do I ensure they can't do this to somebody else?

Johnjo5555

I am going through the same they have literally turned everything I said about my illness and how it affects me the other way round, absolute lies , how can they et away with it , I've also learnt recently they tell doctors/mental health nurses, it not so many words, not to write letters of support to claiments as they would more than likely not use them, apart from being immoral this has to be illegal, but how can we prove it, there must be tens of thousands going through this, my mental health is at rock bottom, I feel like taking a cyanide tablet if I had one

calcotti

Johnjo5555 said:.. I've also learnt recently they tell doctors/mental health nurses, it not so many words, not to write letters of support to claiments as they would more than likely not use them, ..

And where have you ‘learnt’ that? Sounds false to me. It is true that DWP will inform GPS (if the claimant gives consent) that DWP no longer require Fit Notes but that is different.

Starlingbird

I believe that one can now record a PIP assessment. There's a lot of info here:

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/dwp-now-allows-claimants-to-audio-record-pip-assessments-on-their-mobile-phones

Assessments are already hard enough when someone is really struggling. I have also had terrible problems in the past with 'inaccuracies'. I'm sure there are many people who suffer at the hands of the DWP who never voice the injustice online because they are just to poorly.

poppy123456

It's always been possible to record your PIP assessment, even though it was always more difficult to do so than it is now but recording the assessment isn't going to get any a PIP award. The recording can't be used as evidence for MR or Tribunal because they don't have the equipment to be able to listen to it.

 

It's always better to concentrate on filling the forms in with as much information as possible, without telling your life story. Using real world examples of the difficulties you had the last time you attempted each activity the applies to you always helps.

Starlingbird

Yes, I agree @poppy123456 regarding recording the assessment, but it was a lot more difficult in the past, as you say. Sometimes, just for your own peace of mind, it's useful to know what was actually said (because you can start to question your own sanity when all the inaccuracies appear in your report!). If you know 100% that things were said or not said, you can feel a bit more able to keep going.

I think that's very good advice regarding form filling, but for me personally, it was very clear it hadn't been read either before or during the assessment. 

We all seem to have very different experiences with our claims. For all those who are struggling, I would say don't give up, because there are a lot of successful outcomes. Good luck to all who are having issues. 

Silvano

I had the same problem with the lies and them twisting what I say. She said to me I've got children living with me and that Id said so, no I didnt and no I haven't! Ive a grown up Son of 24 who lives 400 miles away! Plus she told me Ive got Oestoarthritis when I didnt say which sort. Basically she didn't listen and twisted everything I said. 

AndrewHall

calcotti said:

Johnjo5555 said:.. I've also learnt recently they tell doctors/mental health nurses, it not so many words, not to write letters of support to claiments as they would more than likely not use them, ..

And where have you ‘learnt’ that? Sounds false to me. It is true that DWP will inform GPS (if the claimant gives consent) that DWP no longer require Fit Notes but that is different.

You are causing confusion here.It is the same illegal intervention if the DWP has to tell GPs not to issue further fit Notes.  DWP has no rights whatsoever on what to tell GP to write. 

calcotti

AndrewHall said:

You are causing confusion here.It is the same illegal intervention if the DWP has to tell GPs not to issue further fit Notes.  DWP has no rights whatsoever on what to tell GP to write. 

There is a question on the UC50 asking

DWP would like to share its decision based on the result of your Work Capability Assessment (WCA) with your doctor, or any doctor treating you. This will help the doctor, as it will tell them when they no longer need to provide you with Statements of Fitness for Work (also known as fit notes or medical certificates) for the purposes of this claim.

We need your agreement to share this information.

You do not have to give your agreement, if you do not agree it will not affect your claim for Universal Credit.

The claimant can say yes or no. If they give consent then clearly DWP can inform GP and are not acting illegally because they have the express of the claimant to do so. If I were completing a UC50 I would say no.

I can’t see what is confusing about that.

i am none the wiser about the poster has ‘learnt’ about DWP telling medical professionals to write letters in a more general sense.

AndrewHall

calcotti said:

AndrewHall said:

You are causing confusion here.It is the same illegal intervention if the DWP has to tell GPs not to issue further fit Notes.  DWP has no rights whatsoever on what to tell GP to write. 

There is a question on the UC50 asking

DWP would like to share its decision based on the result of your Work Capability Assessment (WCA) with your doctor, or any doctor treating you. This will help the doctor, as it will tell them when they no longer need to provide you with Statements of Fitness for Work (also known as fit notes or medical certificates) for the purposes of this claim.

We need your agreement to share this information.

You do not have to give your agreement, if you do not agree it will not affect your claim for Universal Credit.

The claimant can say yes or no. If they give consent then clearly DWP can inform GP and are not acting illegally because they have the express of the claimant to do so. If I were completing a UC50 I would say no.

I can’t see what is confusing about that.

i am none the wiser about the poster has ‘learnt’ about DWP telling medical professionals to write letters in a more general sense.

Thanks for the clarification. 
I ticked "yes". The information was provided for the DWP but their assesors  choose to ignore every thing the Doctor said and excluded my medical records from the bundle. 
My GP doesn't listen to DWP anyway and at no time did their refuse me a Fit Note despite the DWP saying so.