Universal Credit from ESA
Comments
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BrianDavies said:Interesting posts but I think in Lin's case the following will apply. But correct me if I am wrong.
- If you are the claimant for Housing Benefit and you are about to reach State Pension Age, your entitlement to Housing Benefit will end.
- You are unable to make a new claim for housing benefit because you are now a mixed-aged couple (ie your partner will still be under state pension age), to receive help towards your rent you will have to claim Universal Credit.
I'm sorry but that's not correct. I can only assume that you haven't fully read the thread and calcotti's replies. The ESA is in the wife's name so this will continue. Fully explained by calcotti here.calcotti said:No, no, no! Do not claim UC - you will be much worse off if you do.
Her ESA will not end. Because she is the younger partner of what will be a Mixed Age Couple (MAC) her ESA can continue. Her maximum ESA amount will actually increase because a pensioner premium will be added to the calculation. Your State Pension (and any there pension you get) will be deducted in full when calculating the ESA payable.
If you are claiming housing benefit that can continue also (although you might need to argue with your local authority about that because some of them still don't seem to have grasped it even though it's three years since the rules changed).
Additional points to note (if you're interested):
1) In due course your wife will be told her ESA will end as part of the managed migration' exercise and will have to claim UC. When that happens she will get transitional protection (nothing to do with the SDP protection) to ensure that the UC amount is not less than the existing benefit income.
2) If you were the one claiming ESA then the situation would be different because the ESA would end and as a MAC you would need to claim UC, and would be best to claim UC before reaching pension age. You would get less money as a MAC claiming UC than you will with your wife's ongoing ESA claim.0 -
That's wrong. It doesn't't matter who is claiming the HB. If the younger partner continues to receive an income based legacy benefit then the couple is allowed to continue to receive HB (the older partner is treated as if still working age).BrianDavies said:Interesting posts but I think in Lin's case the following will apply. But correct me if I am wrong.- If you are the claimant for Housing Benefit and you are about to reach State Pension Age, your entitlement to Housing Benefit will end.
- You are unable to make a new claim for housing benefit because you are now a mixed-aged couple (ie your partner will still be under state pension age), to receive help towards your rent you will have to claim Universal Credit.
Please read the official guidance quoted by Lin56 in her post on 5th March.0 -
The information from Brian appears to have been taken from a government article. Please see the site below. It is from Swansea in Wales.
https://www.swansea.gov.uk/article/3641/Benefits-for-mixed-age-couples-COVID-19
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Based on the government advice (referenced earlier) the position stated by Swansea local authority is incorrectLin56 said:The information from Brian appears to have been taken from a government article. Please see the site below. It is from Swansea in Wales.
https://www.swansea.gov.uk/article/3641/Benefits-for-mixed-age-couples-COVID-19
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Yes, the information on that Government website is incorrect. I will contact the relevant people concerning the incorrect information and hopefully, they will rectify it. Thanking you once again.
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The government advice (Housing circular) is correct. It is Swansea council who appear to have incorrect information - as far as I am aware Swansea Council are not the government (even though they have a gov.uk web address)!Lin56 said:Yes, the information on that Government website is incorrect. I will contact the relevant people concerning the incorrect information and hopefully, they will rectify it. Thanking you once again.
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Is it possible that as Wales has its own government the details shown on the Swansea Council’s page might be correct? In that case, Lin56 would have to claim Universal Credit and lose a considerable amount of money. Just wondering.
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If Lin56 has his local authority in Wales (Swansea for example) then my message above might be correct.
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Housing Benefit and UC rules are the same in England and Wales.
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Interestingly I just received the following information concerning my query, which contradicts the information given by you. Jut wondered what you think of it:
Your issue is the Housing Benefit, and it means that you will have to make a couples claim for Universal Credit if you want to keep getting benefit for housing.
It works like this:
When you reach state pension age your 'working age' benefits will stop, and if you are single then you claim 'pension age' benefits instead.
However changes to the law a few years ago mean that you can no longer claim pension age benefits if you have a younger partner who is below state pension age. (That's called being a Mixed Age Couple for benefits).
Instead the younger partner has to claim working age benefits for the both of you.
As your current working age housing benefit is in your name then when you reach state pension age it will end - and you can't then make a claim for pension age Housing Benefit (because you have a younger partner).
Your wife can no longer make a new claim for HB, any new claim for help with rent has to be for UC housing element.
So to continue receiving benefit for housing after you have reached pension age your wife will need to claim UC, and as her partner you will also have to make a joint UC claim.
The UC Housing Element for a private rental will be the same amount as you currently get for HB, so you'll still need to top it up.
Because you will be a pensioner you will be in the 'No work related requirements' group of UC and so not expected to look for work - your PIP would also put you in that group anyway.
Your wife's ESA Support Group status will transfer over into UC to become UC-LCWRA, and a LCWRA element will be paid in UC.
With UC-LCWRA she will not be expected to look for work.
She will also get a 'Transitional SDP Element', that does compensate for the loss of SDP, (but not for the loss of EDP).
The Income Related part of her ESA (ie. the premiums) will transfer over to UC.
The Contributions Based part of her ESA will/should stay outside of UC and be paid seperately as a single persons ESA Support Group - but will then be deducted £ for £ from the UC payment.
Your current Carers Allowance will be deducted £ for £ from the UC payment, but you will get an extra Carer Element added to the UC.
Your pension income will be deducted £ for £ from the UC payments.
Both your PIP awards will stay outside of UC and will not affect UC payments or be affected by UC.
Council Tax is calculated differently with UC than it is for legacy IR benefits, so there may also be a change to your Council Tax relief.
Different councils can have different rules so it's difficult to say if that would affect you or not.
Timing of claiming UC:
In your particular circumstances it is not essential that you make the UC claims before you reach State Pension Age - but it is advisable to do so.
It would have been essential if it had been your ESA and premiums. (You would lose them completely and have no LCWRA or SPD transitional element if you waited until after reaching SPA before claiming UC).
However I strongly suggest that you make joint claims for UC ASAP, and certainly before you reach State Pension Age.
That is because if you make the transition while the HB is still in payment there will be a run-on payment of HB for 2 weeks that overlaps with the UC Housing Element and does not have to be paid back.
If you wait until after you have reached SPA then the HB will have stopped and you won't get that 2 week run on of HB.
There will also be a 2 week run-on of the Income Related part of your wifes ESA (ie. all the premiums), again that overlaps with the UC payment and doesn't have to be paid back.
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They have got this wrong. Suggest you reply thus (you may formally wish to request a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision to end the HB claim):
"When I reach pension age my wife will, as you say, continue to receive ESA as she is younger than me. Because her ESA will continue we are permitted to continue to receive working age Housing Benefit (I am treated as if still working age). Please refer to Housing Benefit circular A9/2019 which clearly states5. Where the younger partner is in receipt of Income Support (IS), Jobseeker’s Allowance (income-based) (JSA(IB)), Employment and Support Allowance (income-related) (ESA(IR)), the couple will not be required to claim UC and can continue to receive working age HB if they have an existing claim until there is a relevant change in their circumstances which ends entitlement to those benefits. They will have to claim UC if they need further help with their housing costs."
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Here's my analysis of the legislative background (you are welcome to use this as part of your reply if you wish to):
The Welfare Reform Act 2012 (Commencement No. 31 and Savings and Transitional Provisions and Commencement No. 21 and 23 and Transitional and Transitory Provisions (Amendment)) Order 2019Transitional provision: termination of awards of housing benefit
6.—(1) The awards of housing benefit referred to in paragraph (2) are to terminate on the day referred to in paragraph (3), subject to paragraph (4).
(2) The awards are those where entitlement under the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations as part of a mixed-age couple begins on or after the appointed day and where the awards are made—
at any time, under the Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 or the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations, to a person who, after the award, becomes a member of a mixed-age couple;
at any time, under the Housing Benefit Regulations 2006, to a person who is a member of a mixed-age couple, where the award subsequently ceases to be subject to those Regulations and becomes subject to the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations; or
on or before the day of making of this Order, to a person who claimed in advance of attaining the qualifying age for state pension credit.
(3) The termination takes effect—
in the case of an award referred to in paragraph (2)(a) or (b), on the later of the appointed day and the day entitlement under the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations as part of a mixed-age couple takes effect on the award, as a change of circumstances, in accordance with the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2001; or
in the case of an award referred to in paragraph (2)(c), on the day after the day of making of this Order.The above regulation means that when an existing working age award made under the Housing Benefit Regulations becomes subject to the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations it can no longer be revised in accordance with those regulations, as would have happened in the past, and the Housing Benefit award ends.
However, if the younger partner continues to receive an income based legacy benefit the couple fall into a group who are not subject to the Housing Benefit SPC Regulations.
The Housing Benefit (Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit) Regulations 2006
Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit
5.—(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), these Regulations apply to a person who has attained the qualifying age for state pension credit.
(2) These Regulations shall not apply in relation to any person if he, or if he has a partner, his partner, is a person on universal credit, on income support on an income-based jobseeker’s allowance or on an income-related employment and support allowance].Similarly
The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006
Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit
5.—(1) These Regulations apply to a person who —
has not attained the qualifying age for state pension credit; or
has attained the qualifying age for state pension credit if he, or if he has a partner, his partner, is a person on universal credit, on income support on an income-based jobseeker's allowance or on an income-related employment and support allowance.
(2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(3) Except as provided in paragraph (1) , these Regulations shall not apply in relation to any person if he, or if he has a partner, his partner, has attained the qualifying age for state pension credit.Regulation 5(2) of the HB SPC regs and regulation 5(1)(b) of the HB Regs mean that the HB SPC Regs do not apply where there is an ongoing entitlement to an income based legacy benefit and that the Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 continue to apply.
Because the HB SPC Regs do not apply the regulation terminating Housing Benefit does not apply either because the trigger for terminating the existing award is becoming subject to the HB SPC Regs. Therefore the working age Housing Benefit award continues.
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Thank you sincerely for that information which is of great help. I cannot thank you enough. Lin.0
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You're welcome. Please let us know how you get on. You may wish to emphasise the phrase "the couple will not be required to claim UC" in that section of the circular I quoted!Lin56 said:Thank you sincerely for that information which is of great help. I cannot thank you enough. Lin.
(It took me quite a while to work out the legislative background when I previously needed to, which wouldn't be necessary if the housing benefit team simply followed the guidance in the circular.)
Definitely worth pursuing and do not be pushed into claiming UC. From the calculation earlier in the thread I think you are actually better of on ESA without HAB than you would be on UC with help for the rent included - but you are entitled to the ESA and HB.
The key error in the reply you received is the opening sentence "When you reach state pension age your 'working age' benefits will stop" and where they go on to say "As your current working age housing benefit is in your name then when you reach state pension age it will end - and you can't then make a claim for pension age Housing Benefit (because you have a younger partner)".
For Housing Benefit that isn't true in your particular circumstances.0 -
Thank you so much for this help. I was getting very confused and depressed. You are a great help to me.0
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Hi Calcotti,
My local authority agreed over the 'phone that when I reach State Pension age in several weeks' time my wife, who is some years younger and receives ESA as the lead claimant, and I will continue to receive Housing Benefit in the manner you described. So, all good there.
You mentioned that when my Carer's Allowance ends (when my State Pension starts) I would be entitled to claim the Severe Disability Premium and that would be double the amount seeing that my wife receives this premium. As I mentioned, we are both severely disabled and get PIP for the mobility and daily care components. I think that I will have to 'phone the ESA office to claim this premium. I was worried that as I will be sixty-six years of age when I make the call they will say I am too old to claim the SDP.
Would it be perhaps best to 'phone the Carer's Allowance Unit and stop my Carer's Allowance, seeing it only has weeks to go, and then claim the SDP? Or would such a step be unnecessary? Should I just wait unit the Carer's Allowance ends and then claim SDP?
Thank you so much for your advice concerning Housing Benefit and ESA.
Lin.
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I was thinking about you this morning and wondering how you were getting on with that. Am pleased to hear - would be so much better if they knew the rules in the first place!Lin56 said:My local authority agreed over the 'phone that when I reach State Pension age in several weeks' time my wife, who is some years younger and receives ESA as the lead claimant, and I will continue to receive Housing Benefit in the manner you described. So, all good there.
That's not quite right. It is your wife that is making the ESA claim so it is her that needs to ring ESA to get the SDP added (or she can ring and authorise you to speak to them). It isn't you claiming the SDP, she will be claiming the SDP as part of her ESA claim. She just needs to ring them and explain that you have reached pension age so have stopped receiving CA and she understands that she is therefore now entitled to an SDP for you because you get daily Living PIP (your age makes no difference).Lin56 said: You mentioned that when my Carer's Allowance ends (when my State Pension starts) I would be entitled to claim the Severe Disability Premium and that would be double the amount seeing that my wife receives this premium. As I mentioned, we are both severely disabled and get PIP for the mobility and daily care components. I think that I will have to 'phone the ESA office to claim this premium. I was worried that as I will be sixty-six years of age when I make the call they will say I am too old to claim the SDP.
I would expect you to get a letter from CA confirming that the CA payments will be stopping but that you retain the 'underlying entitlement'. If you haven't had one by the time you reach pension age ring CA and ask them to issue one so you have it for reference.
Do not cancel the CA claim. Because you will retain an underlying entitlement to CA (although you are not receiving it) your wife will still be entitled to the carer premium in her ESA. If you cancel the claim she will lose this depriving you of £38.85/week. She can verify ongoing entitlement to the carer premium when she rings ESA.
The conversations with ESA are probably best done just after you have reached pension age.1 -
Thank you once again for the advice, upon which I will act. I stand corrected, of course, about the way the claim for SDP will be. When the time comes my wife will ring the ESA office and I will speak on her behalf as she tends to become overwhelmed with nerves. I will let you know how we get on. Lin.
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Thought I would update the numbers
Your wife's revised ESA award after you reach pension age should look like this
couple allowance £121.05
support component £40.60
pensioner premium £117.05
severe disability premium (couple) £138.80
carer premium £38.85Maximum ESA = £456.35/week.
Your pension income (and any other relevant income) will be deducted from this figure to arrive at the amount payable.
As previously advised, the difference between this and what you would have got had you claimed UC is huge. Sad to think that there will be other couples in a similar situation to you who have been misadvised and have consequently lost out.
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Hi Calcotti,
Thank you for the update. Yes, it is sad that many be misled into claiming UC at a huge loss. When it is claimed the UC office should advise claimants about such a loss.
As my wife is some years younger I wondered if the Pension Credit will be paid as I thought that both my wife and I would have to be of State Pension age to get this.
Also, as I am the one getting Carer's Allowance for looking after my wife I would be the one to claim the SDP. My wife got backpayments for SDP and this is why I assumed the SDP would now have to claimed in my name. What I do not understand is why she had the SDP paid in her name and the backpay also in her name when I have been getting CA over the years for looking after her.
Really complicated stuff. Getting old and just cannot grasp these things now .
Lin.
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