Is it cheaper to cure someone or pay them benefits?

bg844

It purely depends on the persons situation in my opinion. I do think it’d be much cheaper to keep the vast majority on welfare than treat them so I don’t see it having much of a benefit overall.

SueHeath

Well done @66Mustang your thread has given us a great debate xx

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

racyguy said:

If the medication is measured by the GP and that the relevant dosage is given it will remove most if not all of the pain.

That can only come from a person that potentially doesn't experience severe chronic pain. One of my medications is morphine, which i've been taking for around 6 years (along with other things) I can tell you now that i can't remember a time where i've ever been pain free in the past 12+ years.

Yes well what does need to change first of all is this idea that there must be a welfare benefit that could be claimed. How many times do we hear people say that they have just been given a diagnosis and now what benefits can I claim because of it.
Priority must always be what treatment/medication should I be on that will make my life easier to cope without the need to look at what welfare benefits can I get hold of.
I never said that medication will remove all pain and also I was referring to PIP Mobility element.
I for one am prescribed MST - 120mg per day, Oramorph - as much as I want/need, Pregabalin 200mg per day together with Sertraline 200mg per day. Just looking at pain and the inability to walk more than 20 metres. Prior to the medication being prescribed I could not get out of bed without being in pain. With the medication I know that I could walk (if other factors were not in play - heart & lung issues) at least 100 metres. I've been on this medication since 2004 with the levels of drugs being reviewed annually.
The cost of my medication for pain is extremely low. 
If it was not for heart & lung disease (both of which are clearly self inflicted) I would be saving the State £64.50 a week by not claiming PIP Mobility! 
I'm not saying I am completely pain free but I know my ability to move around has been improved beyond all recognition.

Karen7788

I’m sure that the majority of people would love to live pain free lives and not claim any benefits. In reality that isn’t possible, some pain is so severe that analgesics only take the edge off it and makes it just about bearable, not to mention the side effects of the medications. 

The welfare system is there for a reason, it’s our safety net. I wouldn’t like to live in a country that didn’t support its most vulnerable. 

racyguy

Karen7788 said:

I’m sure that the majority of people would love to live pain free lives and not claim any benefits. In reality that isn’t possible, some pain is so severe that analgesics only take the edge off it and makes it just about bearable, not to mention the side effects of the medications. 

The welfare system is there for a reason, it’s our safety net. I wouldn’t like to live in a country that didn’t support its most vulnerable. 

I absolutely agree with you about looking after the vulnerable in this country.
However I am seeing more and more in my area that people see benefits as a way of living. I only mentioned a few days ago about a neighbour of mine that saw DLA/PIP as a way of increasing his spending power. He claimed to be totally house bound and the only way he could get about was in his Motability car.
Yet he was fit and healthy enough to travel to and play 18 rounds of golf every week. Thank goodness the DWP took note of my complaint and he was eventually prosecuted for benefit fraud.
As I have mentioned, I would be able to walk 10 times as far as I could before the medication regime. Yes the side effects are a pain but not half as bad as I suffered before I decided to see the GP.
Willpower and determination are all that are needed.

I gave up my Pension Credit award of Just over £50 a week which left me with having to pay my full Council Tax of well over £2000 a year + I don't get any of the means tested linked COL grants.
Yes I am poorer by a long way but comparing my situation now and as it was when claiming Pension Credit I feel that I am more in control of my life as I am when comparing the pain I was in before and after the GP's involvement.

racyguy

Teddybear12 said:

@racyguy I understood from previous posts that you had given up your Pension Credit because of the paper work requested by DWP . This was entirely your choice.

Was it?
Not when the Pension Service were demanding that I had to do work, work that is beyond my capabilities,  every month to maintain the award They were not prepared to offer any alternatives due to my age and disabilities.

poppy123456

racyguy said:

Karen7788 said:

I’m sure that the majority of people would love to live pain free lives and not claim any benefits. In reality that isn’t possible, some pain is so severe that analgesics only take the edge off it and makes it just about bearable, not to mention the side effects of the medications. 

The welfare system is there for a reason, it’s our safety net. I wouldn’t like to live in a country that didn’t support its most vulnerable. 

a neighbour of mine that saw DLA/PIP as a way of increasing his spending power. He claimed to be totally house bound and the only way he could get about was in his Motability car.
Yet he was fit and healthy enough to travel to and play 18 rounds of golf every week. Thank goodness the DWP took note of my complaint and he was eventually prosecuted for benefit fraud.
As I have mentioned, I would be able to walk 10 times as far as I could before the medication regime. Yes the side effects are a pain but not half as bad as I suffered before I decided to see the GP.
Willpower and determination are all that are needed.

I'm just curious how you knew what the outcome of that was because DWP won't disclose anything to anyone that reports someone.

Steve_in_The_City

I am afraid this is all a bit too political and complicated for my brain to comprehend. However, I would like to say that I have an incurable illness. I am in pain all the time but it is bearable. My underlying illness is not recognised in the U.K. and there is no medication they can give me except for sleeping tablets, so I guess I am not much of a drain on NHS resources. I cannot work, am in the Support Group and receive disability benefits so I expect I am a drain on the taxpayer. My illness cannot be cured. If it could, I would be back to work tomorrow. That said, I think it may well be cheaper to keep a curable person on benefits than give them costly NHS treatment.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

I'm just curious how you knew what the outcome of that was because DWP won't disclose anything to anyone that reports someone.

I'm fully aware of that. My neighbour was hopping made one Saturday morning telling me that his Mobility car is being repossessed that day. His words were quite choice as he went on to say that the DWP have also taken his PIP off him - he seemed to think that someone must have 'dobbed' him in.
Much later he told me that he had just been dragged to court for benefit fraud.

SueHeath

I have seen a lot of this type of fraud on the TV @racyguy and i agree that they should be taken to court, people like that are the ones that can make the genuine people have the stigma of being called scroungers years ago.
If any of you remember before they changed some of the claims, there seemed to be a lot of people that didn't work due to bad backs, because it was hard to diagnose  but now with the common use of MRI and CT scans  that as seemed to have changed.

bluefox

Do employers shy away from employing people with long term health absence in the past?

janer1967

@bluefox certainly some employers would be reluctant to employ people with poor attendance history but long term absence isn't as much of an issue if the condition has been cured its more number of spells of absence they shy away from 

Other employers dont even enquire about absence history 

bluefox

janer1967 said:

@bluefox certainly some employers would be reluctant to employ people with poor attendance history but long term absence isn't as much of an issue if the condition has been cured its more number of spells of absence they shy away from 

Other employers dont even enquire about absence history 

How would you ever bounce back from poor absence then? Proof of volunteering etc?

racyguy

bluefox said:

Do employers shy away from employing people with long term health absence in the past?

Whether it was right or wrong and when I was a director of a haulage company many years ago I took steps never to employ a female of child bearing age for the office, nor a driver that had any back or other debilitating conditions. As for their previous attendance record I would make a point of asking their previous employer who would normally be in the same type of industry.

SueHeath

Nower days on paper references were not allowed to ask out right about sick days, late days etc but there are ways around it by asking if the person has kept within the average time off scale - it's excepted for someone to have 2 days sick in 12 months.
As for disability or conditions which require regular medication, hospital or regular visits to the doctors we are allowed to ask that at interviews.
As for your question @bluefox i would look at why and what caused you to be off for so long and if that condition has been treated or is likely to come back.
What we have to look at also is that we are not prejudiced to employing people of colour or disabilities.
This was all to do with my type of work and the firms employment rules.

janer1967

@bluefox yes doing voluntary work can help 

Most employers will ask for 2 references one being from your last employer which if you do voluntary work this could count as last employer 

Some will also ask for your full employment history with dates of when you started and ended that job and and reason it ended . Also a reason for any gaps in employment 

@racyguy I'm shocked you would not employ women of child bearing age and something that would most definitely be classed as discrimination and a mindset of a employer living in the dark ages 

racyguy

janer1967 said:

@bluefox yes doing voluntary work can help 
@racyguy I'm shocked you would not employ women of child bearing age and something that would most definitely be classed as discrimination and a mindset of a employer living in the dark ages 

I agree it was wrong and unfair
But the reality was that young women ended up pregnant and with that came many problems for the company.
Thankfully this was before it was illegal to discriminate - well I think it was?

poppy123456

racyguy said:

bluefox said:

Do employers shy away from employing people with long term health absence in the past?

  when I was a director of a haulage company many years ago I took steps never to employ a female of child bearing age for the office, nor a driver

Shocking!

leeCal

About six years ago I left a company and asked for a reference and they told me they had been advised not to give references but they could say that I worked for them between certain dates. This was the HR manager, he said that it was due to avoid insurance claims. ☹️

racyguy

leeCal said:

About six years ago I left a company and asked for a reference and they told me they had been advised not to give references but they could say that I worked for them between certain dates. This was the HR manager, he said that it was due to avoid insurance claims. ☹️

Not really helpful to the company that is considering employing them.
New and potential employers should be given full access to the history of the individual's previous employment record - on that basis the new employer has no idea who they will be taking on.