Is it cheaper to cure someone or pay them benefits?

cosy_magpie

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janer1967

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elahrairah

In my dream future we move to an economy based on helping people rather than greed.  A society dedicated to all of us living for each other, to help us achieve the maximum amount of pleasure and good health.  A world like there where all the fine minds are trying to cure everything, where people could work according to their abilities and were still allowed access to all the privileges of society if they couldn't conform to the needs of shareholders.  What we could do!  What we could be!  But instead we're in this one, where shareholder value is the ultimate arbiter of worth and even in the biggest economies people go cold and hungry and die of preventable, treatable illnesses. 

hass

I agree 100 %
Its also  I think having  a good family support is important  to.
The  system   it appears in my experience  is designed  to help  people who really need it 

L_Volunteer

@elahrairah Thanks for sharing that with us. I can really sense how your vision would make it a better world to live in

@hass Thanks for expanding on this point too. I agree that a good support network is important

If anyone wishes to discuss this further or needs any further support please don't hesitate to let us know. We are all here for each other 

racyguy

janer1967 said:

Everyone should have opportunity to make new start and prove themselves through merit not past history 

Opportunity maybe, but I can think of two situations where it just wouldn't work like that.
The first would be when an employee is given the option to resign or be sacked due to gross misconduct. How would the new employer find this out?
Secondly this idea of giving everyone a new start would not work if the potential employee has a criminal record that need not be disclosed due to the time bar?

racyguy

I know of one person that due to being found guilty of benefit fraud (£12,000 - for failing to give full details of their income from self-employment whilst claiming Unemployment Benefit). He lost his professional qualifications etc which made him unemployable in his field) This was in 1989 at age 40. Since then, he has never been able to find a decent job and for most of the following 33 years he has languished one benefit or another. How would ex convicts be given a second chance? 

SueHeath

Hi @racyguy can you just explain how the self-employed person lost his qualifications etc that made him unemployable and what what the said persons trade ? 

janer1967

@SueHeath if you have letters behind your name and are part of a qualification membership which is required to do your job then if you commit fraud they can remove those letters hence you not being able to be employed in that field 

A bit like a doctor being struck off 

I did my hr degree and you join a membership which gives you letters MCIPD which most employers request in this field and there was a clause in membership about even having a county court judgement could result in removal from membership hence lose your letters 

SueHeath

janer1967 said:

@SueHeath if you have letters behind your name and are part of a qualification membership which is required to do your job then if you commit fraud they can remove those letters hence you not being able to be employed in that field 

A bit like a doctor being struck off 

I did my hr degree and you join a membership which gives you letters MCIPD which most employers request in this field and there was a clause in membership about even having a county court judgement could result in removal from membership hence lose your letters 

Thanks Janer, very insightful, when self employed was mentioned i was just looking at the bottom end of the chain like hubby in the building trade ha ha the only letters he has after his name are mine  xx

calcotti

There’s some information on some jobs that would be affected by bankruptcy here
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-solutions/bankruptcy/how-bankruptcy-affects-you/check-how-bankruptcy-affects-your-job/

creamcrackered

Hi good topic. This was a thinker and so many factors to consider but my brain is in the mood for some maths so here's my situation: If everything stayed the same (no inflation etc) then up until retirement age (68) I will have taken £137,700 in benefits (pip at standard both and UC @£80 per month). If I'm cured and go to work at min wage, 40hrs then I will pay £23,422 in tax (@15.3%). So if treatments costs less than £137,700 then yes it will save the Gov money and have them earn from me.
Theres so many variables rates of pay, hours worked etc but heres an example if they don't cure me: If i work and earn eg £26,000 per year then they get £55,479 in tax but still give me PIP at standard then they pay out a total £56,301 until I retire.
These figures are approximate of course but if the 225,000 of people who have the same illness as me (ME/CFS) at the same level of being unable to work then that's a total cost of £12,667,725,000. There's also talk of figures of over 2 million people now potentially having the same illness since Covid so add an extra zero!
I could possibly work part time but finding flexible work from home that would pay me enough to pay NI has been pretty impossible to find so far.
A cure would be better all round 🤓🤔