Is it cheaper to cure someone or pay them benefits?

janer1967

@leeCal that is what most employers do now to avoid any claims of giving incorrect ref 

They can give what would constitute bad ref only if it is factual and has evidence eg can only say bad attendance if they had addressed the issue with the employee 

O agree with racy it doesn't give much info but then I don't agree with the new employer having full access to their employment recormployers should only mention things that would ve relevant to new employer 

Everyone should have opportunity to make new start and prove themselves through merit not past history 

Geoark

SueHeath said:

As for disability or conditions which require regular medication, hospital or regular visits to the doctors we are allowed to ask that at interviews.

No, you are not in general allowed to do this. 

• You can’t ask questions about disability and health on an application form or during an interview before the offer of a job has been made, unless it relates to an intrinsic part of the job.
Source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/138117/small-business-guidance.pdf

Once you have made the job offer you can ask as many questions you like and make the offer conditional upon the answers, or choose to do a medical.

There are good reasons for finding out prior to interview if a person has a disability. IE would they need an adjustment regarding the interview, for monitoring purposes, or vet them for national security reasons. For example if you are diagnosed with autism you cannot currently serve in the British Armed Forces. However in general you would not be able to choose not to employ them because they disclosed a disability prior to interview. 

It could be the employer you worked for had valid reasons for being able to ask these questions, ie employing someone with long term sciatica as a security guard, or handling heavy machinery. But they would need good reasons for doing so if taken to tribunal.

racyguy

janer1967 said:

@leeCal that is what most employers do now to avoid any claims of giving incorrect ref 

They can give what would constitute bad ref only if it is factual and has evidence eg can only say bad attendance if they had addressed the issue with the employee 

O agree with racy it doesn't give much info but then I don't agree with the new employer having full access to their employment recormployers should only mention things that would ve relevant to new employer 

Everyone should have opportunity to make new start and prove themselves through merit not past history 

When someone is going for a new job they should be proactively able to demonstrate that they are trustworthy, excellent time keepers, have no absence/sickness issues and have the necessary skills with a former employer. Otherwise it is too much of a gamble for a new potential employer to take on board.
All of the above is relevant to the new employer.
Otherwise it's like asking a bank for a £10,000 loan and them not being able to access their past credit history.

janer1967

@racyguy it maybe a gamble but what about trust from the outset questioning all that doesn't demonstrate trust 

As hr professional for over 30 years I have never asked those sort of questions 

There are other ways of gaining such knowledge through diffetent interview techniques and situational competence based questions and testing and not asking direct questions 

Yes there is element of trust which is why probationary periods exist so performance and essential skills and attitude can be reviewed over this period 

I'm certainly glad I wasn't one of your employees 

racyguy

janer1967 said:

@racyguy it maybe a gamble but what about trust from the outset questioning all that doesn't demonstrate trust 

As hr professional for over 30 years I have never asked those sort of questions 

There are other ways of gaining such knowledge through diffetent interview techniques and situational competence based questions and testing and not asking direct questions 

Yes there is element of trust which is why probationary periods exist so performance and essential skills and attitude can be reviewed over this period 

I'm certainly glad I wasn't one of your employees 

It's simple and you don't need a degree in Hr to do it.
The best place to get information on how a potential new employee will be is to ask his previous employer how he/she was whilst in their employ.
A potential new employee may well be versed in interview techniques and put a front on to hide a shady past.

Lisatho11987777

@racyguy that is awful this is why we have problems in employment this happend to a friend of mine a few years not given a job because of child bearing age the job center took it up and he was penalised for discrimination not a good thing to admit to on a public forum 

Lisatho11987777

Supermarkets such as tesco asda morrisons don't ask alot of questions and my job now went off my cv I was interviewed and given the job the same day 

Lisatho11987777

On most aplications you are asked do you have a disability so that they aware 

janer1967

Only thing is due to data protection and employment law you can no longer do that and yes some old school employers will give you that information but run the risk of tribunal claims 

We won't agree on this topic I'm just glad that employment law exists to protect rights of people who end up working for employers who have no regard for employment rights 

No further comment 

Lisatho11987777

Agree @janer1967

Lisatho11987777

@leeCal that is what normaly happens that previous employers just give new employers the dates you worked for them  gives people a chance to get work and if you  havent  worked because of various reasons everyone needs a chance to work  if  a person makes the same mistakes again then its down to the person not because they weren't given the chance to work 

Lisatho11987777

@racyguy disability doesn't always stop people working depending on their disability my cousin is downs syndrome and works in a bank people eith disabiltys are actors depending on what your disability is 

racyguy

Disability has nothing to do with what I was pointing out - it is the 'sickness' and excessive time off because of the dog or bad head due to excessive amounts of alcohol etc.
However as was mentioned earlier 2 days off sick is acceptable over a period of 12 months, every other Monday is not.
However the potential employee is never going to admit anything that could lose them the job,
In my opinion the pendulum has swung far too much in favour of the potential employee.
What about the company that will be paying the salary? They are not social workers or a charity and expect results from the money they pay them.
To find out after the 6 month probation that they become lazy and unable to take on board the level of responsibility they would have to get rid of them costing the company more money.
Then they will be back to square one looking for the right individual.

If only the employer had been given information from his previous employer the lost money and wasted time could have been avoided.

Karen7788

If prospective employers don’t adhere to current employment laws during the recruitment process they’re not worth working for. It’s an employee’s market at the moment so employers need to give good incentives. 

Lisatho11987777

The thread seems to have gone off topic some how maybe its run its course now or put it back in topic 

leeCal

‘Zolgensma, which has a list price of £1.795 million per single dose, was made available on the NHS following a landmark deal struck with manufacturers Novartis Gene Therapies in March.’

See the whole article on https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/06/nhs-treats-first-patient-with-the-worlds-most-expensive-drug/

Karen7788

Everyone’s circumstances are different so I don’t think the original question can be answered. 

SueHeath

Geoark said:

SueHeath said:

As for disability or conditions which require regular medication, hospital or regular visits to the doctors we are allowed to ask that at interviews.

No, you are not in general allowed to do this. 

• You can’t ask questions about disability and health on an application form or during an interview before the offer of a job has been made, unless it relates to an intrinsic part of the job.
Source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/138117/small-business-guidance.pdf

Once you have made the job offer you can ask as many questions you like and make the offer conditional upon the answers, or choose to do a medical.

There are good reasons for finding out prior to interview if a person has a disability. IE would they need an adjustment regarding the interview, for monitoring purposes, or vet them for national security reasons. For example if you are diagnosed with autism you cannot currently serve in the British Armed Forces. However in general you would not be able to choose not to employ them because they disclosed a disability prior to interview. 

It could be the employer you worked for had valid reasons for being able to ask these questions, ie employing someone with long term sciatica as a security guard, or handling heavy machinery. But they would need good reasons for doing so if taken to tribunal.

This is how our firm work, we have to ask at inter view due to to type of work, in a busy kitchen.

Lisatho11987777

This thread is still off topic  I just want to say that employment law has had changes  if people want to start another thread on this subject it would be better as this thread isn't the place 

hass

Hi  all

This is very interesting  disscussion