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Hi, my name is Ellefrance2! I am at PIP Tribunal stage now - awaiting a date.

Ellefrance2

Hi, I need some advice please.

I am at Tribunal stage now - awaiting a date. I’m gathering all of my evidence and everything I have to build my case. Since the initial assessment I have so much more evidence in my favour as I think I didn’t provide enough evidence at the beginning as I am new to this and didn’t really know what I was doing.

However, I still feel that I provided enough to warrant a few more points than were awarded.

There is something in particular I would like some opinions on though. In my first decision letter the decision maker has written something along of the lines of "You say you have difficulty doing so and so but your musculoskeletal examination showed no restriction to manage this activity unaided"

This baffled me from day one and I was trying to think what on earth they were talking about as I had never undergone an examination for this is even be determined.

Since I’m at the Tribunal stage and the DWP have also sent me their response they have also attached copies of my assessment with Capita and it clearly states "musculoskeletal system and/or central nervous system: Not examined. Assessment undertaken by telephone"

I have literally been marked down based on an assessment that never took place and THEIR evidence AGAINST ME has proven this?

There are various other mishaps where they have acknowledged the requirement and use of aids for certain descriptors but not others despite the use for aid being for the same condition.

What can I do? I am so so angry and hurt. The stress that this has caused me has made me feel at my absolute lowest.

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Ellefrance2

Hi, I need some advice please.

However, I still feel that I provided enough to warrant a few more points than were awarded.

This baffled me from day one and I was trying to think what on earth they were talking about as I had never undergone an examination for this is even be determined.

I have literally been marked down based on an assessment that never took place and THEIR evidence AGAINST ME has proven this?

There are various other mishaps where they have acknowledged the requirement and use of aids for certain descriptors but not others despite the use for aid being for the same condition.

What can I do? I am so so angry and hurt. The stress that this has caused me has made me feel at my absolute lowest.

calcotti

Duplicate thread here
https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/95963/hi-my-name-is-ellefrance2-i-am-at-pip-tribunal-stage-now-awaiting-a-date#latest

calcotti

You really should largely ignore the assessment report. Tribunals know the assessments are poor and an award will be based on your evidence about the difficulties you have. You can simply note that you consider the report is inaccurate and shows a misunderstanding of your difficulties. Highlight a couple of errors and you could reference the point you have raised above as an obvious inconsistency which undermines the credibility of the report.

Ellefrance2

That’s helpful thank you. I just feel so angry and upset. I’m tried to put in a complaint and was supposed to hear within 15 days.. I still have not heard!

L_Volunteer

You are welcome @Ellefrance2. It is the very least you deserve.

I can hear you are feeling angry and upset at the moment. Would anything, in particular, help this to feel more manageable for you at the moment?

We are all here for you and listening to you. Please don't hesitate to let us know if we can do anything to support you

Ellefrance2

Hi @L_Volunteer,

I still haven’t heard from the DWP in regards to my complaint. Do you know where I stand with this now?

bg844

The next route is contacting your MP.

https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

Ellefrance2

How do I go about doing that and what do I even say?

Sue_Alumni

Good morning @Ellefrance
If you are complaining about the way Capita carried out the assessment then your complaint must be made to Capita, the assessment provider. If you are not happy with how your complaint is being handled you can ask for your MP to get involved. You can find your MP on the UK Parliament website

poppy123456

At this stage I really can’t see how contacting your local MP will help. You’ve sent a complaint to the health assessment providers, which is really all you can do at this stage. When they do respond they don’t usually say or do much to be honest.

What you should do is concentrate on the Tribunal and weaknesses in your evidence.

Ellefrance2

How do I go about doing that and what do I even say?

Ellefrance2

@poppy123456

Hi, my complaint isn’t against the assessor, it against the decision maker who decides the decision after this. I believe I have adequate evidence as there are huge inaccuracies in decision makers response. I’ve handed in a lot more evidence for my tribunal and have a letter from my psychologist.

My issue here is that I feel that I am having to wait months for a tribunal date when I shouldn’t be in the position anyway. I want an explanation for their wrong doing and them to reconsider their decision with the additional evidence I have.

poppy123456

They do sometimes reconsider their decision and offer an award before the hearing takes place but it’s rare for them to do that. You should expect to have to attend the hearing.

Tribunal waiting times have nothing to do with DWP, HMCTS are responsible for those. You can contact them as ask how long approximately it will be before your hearing date.

Ellefrance2

@poppy123456 No, I understand this. My point is that I am having to now join this long wait for a tribunal date, continue to struggle, due to their unfairness and mistakes. If no mistakes had been made and it was because I didn’t provide enough evidence, I would have accepted it and waited. However this is completely unfair and immoral and I shouldn’t have to struggle because of them. I put in a complaint and I expect it to be dealt with as promised and it hasn’t. I am now asking for more help and where I can go from here.

Cartini

Ellefrance2 said:

@poppy123456 No, I understand this. My point is that I am having to now join this long wait for a tribunal date, continue to struggle, due to their unfairness and mistakes. If no mistakes had been made and it was because I didn’t provide enough evidence, I would have accepted it and waited. However this is completely unfair and immoral and I shouldn’t have to struggle because of them. I put in a complaint and I expect it to be dealt with as promised and it hasn’t. I am now asking for more help and where I can go from here.

Hi Ellefrance,

In your introduction you said "Since the initial assessment I have so much more evidence in my favour as I think I didn’t provide enough evidence at the beginning as I am new to this and didn’t really know what I was doing."

This doesn`t excuse DWP but, at the same time, you may be partly responsible for your results.

I also fail to see how DWP are being unfair or immoral when they appear to have the same contempt (probably too strong a word to use, but it`s the only one I can think of right now) for all applicants.

Without knowing your conditions, if I were you, I wouldn`t get so het up about the situation - just let it take its course.

The main reason I`ve jumped in on this conversation is to give you a bit of support (believe it or not, despite what I`ve just written). As poppy has advised you, they do sometimes reconsider their decision and offer an award before the tribunal takes place. I`m proof of that.

I was awarded enhanced Daily Living but only 4 points for Mobility. I went to MR without any change to the award so I started the appeal process. DWP did not respond by the date dictated by HMCTS, so they (HMCTS) decided to wait another 21 days to hear; still nothing. Shortly after that I had an amount of money from DWP in my account which turned out to be backdated payment for enhanced Mobility. DWP had reassessed my application, changed their mind and awarded full PIP (enhanced on both) and changed a 3 year review to ongoing.

Andy

Ellefrance2

@Cartini

Hi,

Thanks for your response. I do completely understand everyone has their own opinions on this situation and ways that they would handle it or ways that believe I should deal with it.

The real issue I’m struggling to accept here is how I have been treated throughout this. One of my issues is my mental health, anxiety in particular and OCD. They have known this from the beginning.

Like I said, this is only two problems amongst many others. In their customer service charter they have various policies listed such as "treating with respect and being kind", "being honest" etc. I have had various phone calls and have been spoken to horribly. I have broken down on the phone and not one once of compassion was shown.

Obviously everyone that applies for PIP feels that they deserve it and need it. I can’t explain to you how much this would change my life. My life is currently unbearable and I am at a incredibly low point and I can’t help but blame this procedure.

I admit that I didn’t send off as much evidence as I could of, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t send of any or even enough to warrant more points to be awarded.

The main things that shock me here is the inconsistencies, the blatant lies and the awarding of points for one activity and acknowledging I need aids but then refuses to award for another activity despite needing aids for the exact same condition. Then being marked down on points based on a examination which never took place - this alone if I was marked correctly I would have probably qualified for at least standard rate.

If it was just based off of my lack of evidence I would have accepted it and moved on. However this if because of their mistakes and going against their own legislation which is why I am so upset.

I have complained to them and on top of this I haven’t had a response as promised.

I am a pushover for many things in my life but enough is enough. I am desperate for help here. I’m struggling and this, as stated above, could change my life. I can’t keep living like this and I’m now in a queue, it’s unknown how long for, to have to attend a tribunal which is the worst thing I could think of having to do, because of them.

Ellefrance2

and just to add to this, they were completely discriminatory towards me regarding dyslexia!

Cartini

Hi @Ellefrance2,

I would never question if anyone needed PIP (or any other benefit, come to that), we are all different with our own special needs. If that`s how it came across, I apologise; it certainly wasn`t meant that way.

I was just trying to be supportive in what can only be an upsetting time for you.

I hope DWP reassess your application and change their minds so that you don`t need to go to tribunal.

Ellefrance2

@Cartini Oh no, you didn’t offend me!! I appreciate your feedback. I really do. I’m just no ready to give up this battle yet and just want to be heard. Thanks x

chiarieds

Hi @Ellefrance2 - I 'think' what has been tried to have been said is that unfortunately many PIP applicants feel that the PIP assessors have lied. What can be said is that such 'lies' can only be perceived as 'inaccuracies' as you couldn't normally prove an assessor has lied. Unless you can pursue this, & prove one or perhaps 2 inaccuracies, then it doesn't help you, unfortunately.

You may be bemused by this, but my assessor's report said that as I didn't see a pain management nor physiotherapy specialist then I could walk further than stated. As I am a physiotherapist that was easy to refute through sending documentation. These things are not always as easy to counter.

I'm so sorry for what you've gone through, but do please try to leave this behind you. A tribunal is nothing to worry about (& they're nothing to do with the DWP). There will be a judge, a Dr, & someone with an understanding about disability. They will all want to hear you, & exactly how your disability affects you; this is your opportunity to be heard.

However, as tribunals are used to poor PIP assessments, just explain your difficulties rather than concentrating on your PIP assessment. I'm sorry for the wait you're experiencing with a tribunal but hope it proves well worthwhile.