'Benefit cuts for disabled people in hospital called unfair'

Tori_Scope

Thousands of disabled people have had their benefits paused during extended hospital stays under a rule charities say penalises the most vulnerable.

It comes after a court case was withdrawn which had been set to challenge the lawfulness of the so-called hospitalisation rule.

Under the rule, people who claim Personal Independence Payment (PIP) have their payments suspended if they receive care in hospital for 28 days or more.

(BBC: Benefit cuts for disabled people in hospital called unfair)

Over to you...

Have you been affected by the hospitalisation rule? 

Do you think the hospitalisation rule is fair?

Sandy_123

I've always thought that was unfair as 90% disabled people will need hospital stays at some point. Fair to say most hospitals don't keep people that long, unless it's complex and for other reasons. It will also add to the stress of getting home before cut off date.

Oxonlady

Yes, I do think that the hospitalisation rule is unfair. Several years ago I set up a petition on Facebook to campaign for its abolition but it sort of fizzled out.

If your ESA or DLA or PIP are stopped then your Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are automatically stopped. So how will your rent be paid? Especially if you are renting from a private landlord, you could come out of hospital after, say, six weeks only to find that you have been evicted. 

Also, many people pay their utility bills etc via direct debit. If no money goes into your account because your benefits have been stopped, you will incur an overdraft, bank fees and none of your bills will be paid. Which is the last thing you should have to worry about when you are ill enough to be in hospital. 

You could end up going back home and your gas and electricity could have 
been cut off. 

Does anyone in government understand the problems of having your Benefits stopped? 
It's an attack on those who are in a very vulnerable situation, having to cope with health matters, financial problems and other important issues, all at the same time. This stressful combination is not conducive to a speedy. convalescence. 

janer1967

I'm on the fence here maybe not stopped but if in hospital then their care is being provided by NHS 

Just like if your in a care home you can't claim daily living part 

Those who work and don't get company sick pay would only get ssp so they would have pay cut 

Agree disabled are more likely to have more often and longer stays in hospital 

Suppose one reason for medical insurance 

racyguy

Oxonlady said:

Yes, I do think that the hospitalisation rule is unfair. Several years ago I set up a petition on Facebook to campaign for its abolition but it sort of fizzled out.

If your ESA or DLA or PIP are stopped then your Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are automatically stopped. So how will your rent be paid? Especially if you are renting from a private landlord, you could come out of hospital after, say, six weeks only to find that you have been evicted. 

Also, many people pay their utility bills etc via direct debit. If no money goes into your account because your benefits have been stopped, you will incur an overdraft, bank fees and none of your bills will be paid. Which is the last thing you should have to worry about when you are ill enough to be in hospital. 

You could end up going back home and your gas and electricity could have 
been cut off. 

Does anyone in government understand the problems of having your Benefits stopped? 
It's an attack on those who are in a very vulnerable situation, having to cope with health matters, financial problems and other important issues, all at the same time. This stressful combination is not conducive to a speedy. convalescence. 

You have to consider why you are being paid PIP/DLA. Both have two parts - care and mobility. If you have a car under contract with Motability that element (mobility) will not stop it will still be paid to Motability. If you don't have that then what mobility needs would you have whilst in your hospital bed? Secondly what is the reason/purpose for the care element. Simply that it is an amount to be used in part towards the costs of providing care hence why all of the descriptors all relate to care needs. If in hospital your care needs are met by the NHS so no need for that element to be paid. Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,

woodbine

It used to be called the bed and breakfast rule, oddly enough SRP is not affected by any hospital stays.

calcotti

woodbine said:

It used to be called the bed and breakfast rule, oddly enough SRP is not affected by any hospital stays.

The benefits that are cut are those that are payments to help with the additional cost of disabilities. The argument is that these cease while someone is in hospital. Income replacement benefits are not affected in the same way as disability benefits. From memory, ESA is payable for up to 52 weeks. UC may be affected after 6 months.

woodbine

SRP used to be stopped/reduced whilst in hospital some years ago now.

Oxonlady

Hi@racyguy, there may be some misunderstandings on disability benefits.
I once asked the DWP  what exactly I could use my DLA for and they said "it's your choice, you can use the money to pay your gardener".

I'm currently on Direct Payments to pay for my PAs yet my DLA counts as income so £60 of it per week I have to pay to the council as Care charges.

What I said about Housing and Council Tax Benefit being stopped when ESA or DLA are stopped can still get patients into trouble with their landlord and their bank. 
I remember being in hospital worrying to death in case I was kept in for more than 28 days, my Benefits would be stopped, my bills would not be paid and I'd be in trouble with the bank, as I'm not allowed an overdraft. I don't have any other income, so how would my bills have been paid?
I don't know about PIP but DLA can be used to help people survive in whatever way is needed. Fortunately, I was not kept in hospital for more than 28 days! 

poppy123456

racyguy said:

Oxonlady said:

Yes, I do think that the hospitalisation rule is unfair. Several years ago I set up a petition on Facebook to campaign for its abolition but it sort of fizzled out.

If your ESA or DLA or PIP are stopped then your Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are automatically stopped. So how will your rent be paid? Especially if you are renting from a private landlord, you could come out of hospital after, say, six weeks only to find that you have been evicted. 

Also, many people pay their utility bills etc via direct debit. If no money goes into your account because your benefits have been stopped, you will incur an overdraft, bank fees and none of your bills will be paid. Which is the last thing you should have to worry about when you are ill enough to be in hospital. 

You could end up going back home and your gas and electricity could have 
been cut off. 

Does anyone in government understand the problems of having your Benefits stopped? 
It's an attack on those who are in a very vulnerable situation, having to cope with health matters, financial problems and other important issues, all at the same time. This stressful combination is not conducive to a speedy. convalescence. 

Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,

That's completely incorrect! Disability benefits are the same as any other benefits, there's no rules on what you can and can't use the money for, you can spend it on anything you want to.

There are many people that rely on the disability benefits for their everyday expenses.

If it makes you feel better, part of my PIP at the moment is being used to pay for my holiday next year, the same as the next £324 CoL payment.

poppy123456

Oxonlady said:

What I said about Housing and Council Tax Benefit being stopped when ESA or DLA are stopped can still get patients into trouble with their landlord and their bank. 

Housing benefit can be suspended if ESA and or/PIP/DLA stops because DWP often share information with local Authorities that a benefit has stopped. Contacting your LA to restart your housing benefit is all that's needed.

ESA and housing benefit/Council tax reduction all continue while in hospital for up to 1 year. After this time i believe that ESA is reduced. However, if you're claiming Severe disability premium in your ESA and PIP/DLA stops then the SDP will also stop but the remainder of your ESA will continue.

woodbine

@racyguy said " Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,"

Please don't make comments like that before you check to see if what you are saying is correct because some people might read it and think it is correct, IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT CORRECT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER 

racyguy

woodbine said:

@racyguy said " Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,"

Please don't make comments like that before you check to see if what you are saying is correct because some people might read it and think it is correct, IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT CORRECT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER 

Challenge then. What exactly is the reason of Care element being awarded if not for one or more of the Descriptors. Of course, you can spend it on anything you like BUT the primary reason why it is paid is because you have gained enough points to qualify. I don't remember seeing any section of the form that asks about holidays or even your gas and electric bill.
 

poppy123456

racyguy said:

woodbine said:

@racyguy said " Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,"

Please don't make comments like that before you check to see if what you are saying is correct because some people might read it and think it is correct, IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT CORRECT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER 

I don't remember seeing any section of the form that asks about holidays or even your gas and electric bill.
 

Neither does it ask any questions related to extra expenses because of any disability! So yet again, you are wrong!

My daughter has no extra expenses because of her disability because she refuses extra support because of trust issues. This doesn't mean she's not entitled to PIP!

Community_Scope

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Oxonlady

Hi@Community_Scope, I agree entirely. We may have different opinions from others but that's no excuse for personal attacks and rudeness. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 

poppy123456

I don't see any personal attacks. I see misleading information being corrected.

woodbine

I agree with @poppy123456 misleading information has to be corrected and I don't see any "personal" attacks.

chiarieds

I think in part Scope have unintentionally mislead from what I've previously read on their main website in mentioning 'the extra costs of disability.' This has previously been mentioned. If about 1 in 5 of the adult population is indeed disabled, then I can't imagine them all having 'extra costs.'

Yes, PIP is a benefit that disabled people can claim, & yes, many, if awarded, will welcome the money to also help with their food, heating, or whatever mentally helps them, & some may claim, yet not need the money.

My PIP is going to be used to buy me a new roof (& insulation) this winter, so think it's for whatever helps you physically/mentally &, as mentioned, there are no stipulations as to what you spend it on.

chiarieds

I looked into what constitutes a 'personal attack' a while ago, & found nothing definitive on many forums, but found this elsewhere:

https://effectiviology.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/ which says this,'....attacks against the source of an argument are not always fallacious, since they are not inherently flawed from a logical perspective. As such, attacks against the source of an argument can be reasonable, as long as they’re relevant to the discussion, properly justified, and involve no faulty reasoning.'

This leads me to think that whilst attacks against a person are not justified, then an 'argument,' for want of a better word, can be made about what a person has said if it's not correct. So, it's not about the person, in such a case, rather what they've said, & there's nothing wrong with then correcting this.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

racyguy said:

woodbine said:

@racyguy said " Some people just treat PIP/DLA as extra money to cover unrelated bills - not what it is for,"

Please don't make comments like that before you check to see if what you are saying is correct because some people might read it and think it is correct, IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT CORRECT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER 

I don't remember seeing any section of the form that asks about holidays or even your gas and electric bill.
 

Neither does it ask any questions related to extra expenses because of any disability! So yet again, you are wrong!

My daughter has no extra expenses because of her disability because she refuses extra support because of trust issues. This doesn't mean she's not entitled to PIP!

Entitled to is one thing needing the money for disability issues is another.
We need the mobility money so as to be able to leave our home - bus/taxis which come to a lot more than what we receive. Money for care is needed to pay for all of the help we both need such as ironing, cleaning, gardening, replacing worn out specialist equipment etc.
We are entitled to many things but don't receive them - Council Tax 100% discount (over £2,000pa), all of the COL awards based on receiving a means tested benefit etc.