The Green Paper Discussion (the document link is here too!)
Comments
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I think the issue is that it's not what they say (or don't) it's what these reforms will do that is potentially illegally. This is what happened to the tories - they got taken to court and lost. From my understanding if that happens then they have to reppeal the law/policy.
So right now for example if this goes through, someone like me who scores mostly 2s and 3s and gets PIP under my next assessment my disabilities and illness haven't changed (they've actually gotten worse and I've developed another health condition), but if I don't get scored a 4 in any one catagory I will loose the whole of either my PIP or the daily living (mobility isn't affected) - so one day I'm deemed I need the help/support and the next with nothing improving I'm not. That is descrimination.
Another one is forcing people to go to face-to-face assessments reguardless of their disabilities and illness. Under the Disability Act 2010, you are legally allowed to ask for 'reasonable adjustments' and these include requesting a telephone interview, or perhaps them coming to you home if you can't travel.
Not even the govt can try moving the goalposts because it wants to. Wes Streeting can't just decide - or at the very least strongly imply that mental health (esp in young people) 'isn't a thing' because he doesn't believe it. The sick and disabled are a legally protected group, reguardless of what this govt believe and even we actually still have rights and if those are violated the govt has broken the law. If the govt insists on ramming this through individuals, charities and organisations will take them to court, and likely will win. The problem is that will take time - years and a lot of damage can be done during that time. That's why this has to be watered down or rejected by MPs, Lords etc - and one way is if we, charities etc keep pressuring them. Not even they are immune completely to the court of public opinion.
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Thatโs what Iโm scared of aswell. Last time I had an assessment they did a paper based one 5 years ago and even though things arenโt any better I donโt trust them not to lie after Iโve just had a PIP assessor lie through their back teeth so I donโt get PIP. I hate this government and what theyโre doing to everyone theyโve destroyed my mental health even further
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As far as i am aware most on LCWRA are still suspended, i have not heard any news about them starting up again.
Unless labour changes this in the coming weeks.
I would assume with the massive backlog and getting everyone on UC by December 2025/2026 you might be waiting awhile anyway.
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Hi @YogiBear This part of the Green Paper is not grabbing the headlines. It's unclear. It's something I intend to write on at length when I respond to the Green Paper.
Sometimes I wonder whether I'd be better on without my savings but I feel more secure with a bit in the bank.
Sadly, no Mods have responded to this issue.
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Hi @pinkrose. Our policy team is currently reviewing the Benefits Green Paper in detail, and we will provide updates on our website as soon as we have more information. Please check our website for further details, which will be published soon. ๐
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I agree - one thing I heard is as much as Liz Kendall is horrific about this, she was boxed into it by Rachel Reeves needing more for defense spending and a budget black hole. Word is that Kendell prior was all about using the carrot to coax people into work. But I agree she won't back down.
As far as court goes not even govts get to break the laws - if this reform goes through and someone has a re-assesment and requests a phone appointment rather than face-to-face because of mental helath, challenging travelling etc - if the govt refuses, they are breaking the Disability Act 2010. If they suddenly decide that I was entitled to PIP in 2023 but in 2027 I am not - not because my condition or circumstances have improved but because I only get 2/3 in all critera, that's discrimnation. A lot of organisations and charities will also take the bill itself to court because it descriminates against so, so many people and their lives depend on PIP.
Hope that makes sense.
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Thank you so so much pinkrose, your comment was so lovely and given me the first glimmer of hope I've had in a very, very long time
Thank you xxx
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@secretsquirrel1 and @pinkrose This is not true. If you meet the descriptors it doesn't matter whether your cared for my family, friends, professionals, or go without helpโฆ PIP doesn't covet everything.
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Where did you read it? Xx
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I hope youโre right and itโs nothing I considered or heard of before. Just a comment on YouTube that couldnโt be refuted by the YouTuber whoโs usually very good .
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I read the link on Benefits & Work, the first bit i understood, about it being unlawful because of lack of consultation. Then it says because it's being rushed through or something it can be legistrated sooner like in May or June? Does this mean it can't be challenged in court like last time with the WCA under the tories, which they lost? It's all very confusing, on the one hand it's not legal, but on the other they don't care and will push it through, how the hell does that work, nobody is above the law, why aren't legal folk, charities, Ellen Clifford etc getting a case together now before it's too late!!
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God, I'm so sorry. Please keep in contact with this forum, there are people that care about you. People and organisations will fight this ever damn step. Please, please remember that a green paper is a govt wishlist - it is NOT the law. That won't happen for a while. There are legal steps the govt has to take for this to become law and it's not quick. Not even a majority govt can ram legislation throuh in a few months. There are debates, readings and votes in parliment - they can't skip this. No matter what.
Please, please keep messaging us, we're all here to support each other.
If you're in immediate crisis and want to harm yourself - please, please, please ring the Samartians ASAP (116 123). They are ope 24/7 365 days a year: - you can ring or email them. They deal a lot with people who are sucidal and I have friends that are suicidal and they ring them regularly - you can ring them every day if you need to.
There's also National Suicide Prevention Helpline UKย onย 0800 689 5652
Papyrus (if you're under 35) onย 0800 068 4141ย (24 hours, 7 days a week), emailย pat@papyrus-uk.orgย or textย 07786 209 697.
Rape Crisis: 0808 500 2222 you can also chat online: https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/want-to-talk/
Please get in contact with them and keep messaging us here.
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this is what worries me . Apart from care homes and terminally ill patients at home how many are provided with professional carers ? Think how many wouldnโt qualify. But then it would mean hardly anyone getting carers and having to work. The local council would have to provide a lot more support and would not be able to .
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I know it's hard summerlove, but please don't give up or wave goodbye to what you are and rightly so entitled to.
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So will this be found unlawful
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I agree pinkrose very serious conditions your scared it's just come out remember this is the green paper people will see the horrendous affect its having we really do care you are me and I am you we have charities wonderful activists who are also on pip thousands voices no all hope is lost give yourself time to come down from the fear you been really really triggered your not alone โค๏ธ
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But then there was a law change 2019 saying you can get support from family friends doesn't have to be a professional I think it's for out and about but still
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You are right a
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Just read that people saying it's not like a proper consultation not really giving disabled people opportunity to express themselves just what can we do to get people to talk to us something like that I wrote Just leave us alone said its a mass culling going to write every week
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There's always some disgusting vile ulterior motives behind all this kind of mass fear mongering.
I think they should all be sent to fight for the wars they so desperately want to perpetuate (for money)themselves, and leave disabled people's money, who they want to use to pay for it alone.
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