Scope's reply to the governments planned concessions to the green paper.

I don’t understand after this almost brought the government down ( may be a bit dramatic here) how they would trick the MPs who started the amendment. Surely the 126 rebels are all stupid ? Not that I trust the Labour government at all but look at the backlash . And regarding the two tier system, it shows that the rebels were only interested in saving their seats with the current claimants. They aren’t interested in the future claimants as right now the voters who are healthy are not thought to be interested in pip at the moment. Obviously that doesn’t include those on DLA or children. But that seems to be their thinking, including Meg hillier . IMO

Hi @Trevor_PIP - Please see: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2024

This is said about PIP overpayments:

'The Personal Independence Payment overpayment rate was at the lowest recorded level of 0.4% (£90m) in FYE 2024, compared with 1.1% (£200m) in FYE 2023, which was a statistically significant decrease.'

[Fraud was 0.0%, whilst DWP official error in underpayment was 0.4%]

Yes, I'd read there was a small trial also looking at PIP claimants bank accounts, tho the DWP seem to be looking to test UC, Pension Credit & ESA where 'incorrect payments are currently the highest': https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-authorities-fraud-error-and-recovery-bill-2025-factsheets/dwps-eligibility-verification-powers-in-the-public-authorities-fraud-error-and-recovery-bill-factsheet#how-will-it-work

Undoubtably during the Covid-19 pandemic there were criminals fraudulently claiming UC. But, & this is just my personal opinion, whilst even some of our members have made errors & we always say to let the DWP know about their genuine mistakes asap, such errors are a far cry from actual benefit fraud. I'll leave it there.

Me too AI will take over many jobs this is why I believe they know what's happening and how many be unemployed so they are desperately trying to stop the availability they have plans even money we must be one step ahead cash is king let's hope these admendments tomorrow stop the bill

The only number i know is what the government says, 1,000 people are being added to PIP every day. That's 365,000 extra PIP claimants being added every year. Do you think the welfare system can sustain these numbers? Let's say claims average out at about £1800 per month in overall benefit payments, that's about £8bn a year more.

I don't know what percentage of claims are from dishonest people. I do find it hard to believe 365,000 new people are becoming disabled every year. But even if these are all genuine cases, then we're going to have to accept harsher conditions like vouchers and cuts to LCRWA and PIP. Taxpayers cannot sustain £8bn+ a year, every year, more being spent on benefits. It's just the reality of the situation.

This is probably my last reply, as whenever I hear I know this and that person it usually makes me turn away immediately, as people on benefits usually dont advertise they on benefits as its not something to boast about. So I am not going to comment on your gym comment, but the financial number, that 34 billion isnt the cost of the increase, its the projected total increase in entire pip expenditure, it also should be looked at as a % of GDP, not as a real number.

The country can comfortably afford it, its obvious it can, we happily pay for triple lock on pensions and that is far more expensive than PIP will ever be. The issue isnt spending too much money, its not taxing enough, wasting money on vanity projects, and silly policies that are losing us 10s of billions a year such as leaving the EU. You couldnt make it up, we lose the EU workers, and then their solution to solve this workforce problem is to try and force disabled people in to jobs they cant do.

You still have ignored whats been said a few times in this thread now, about the state of the health service and other factors on the increase.

So what happens when the DWP do what you wish, and kick yourself from PIP?

The country has an issue with blaming the wrong people for bad governance, first it was the EU, then the immigrants, and now PIP claimants.

Your logic is, that if claims increase, it must mean its fraud, like ill health is something that is predictable and steady, you completely ignoring all social and public service factors.

to try and explain to you again about cost of living, there will be people who on paper qualify for benefits, but dont claim because of pride and not in desperate need of the money, they may then fall on hard times, and out of necessity then put a claim in, there is likely quite a lot of disabled people who on paper would qualify but dont claim PIP.

16% of PIP claimants are in work, so the vast majority claim UC.

I emailed him 3 times do they have to accept the admendments??

How comes millions unclaimed yearly what about mentioning that no they don't do they

Which accounts are these? Pretty sure this kind of phenonemon dosen't actually exist.

And even if they do exist, that dosent change anything else i said.

better to have thousands of people claiming money they arent entitled to than one disabled person who cant access it.