Means Testing PIP - Whats everyone thoughts?

Options
rubin16
rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing
edited July 21 in PIP, DLA, ADP and AA

I found out recently that they might starts to means test pip. Whats everyones thoughts on this?

To me personally I think its a good thing to means test it. It'll stop people who don't need to claim it who have their own money to use. It can then be solely used for those who really need it.

I know some people claim pip when they still have alot of their own money in savings, or claim it and live abroad. This is wrong to me and should be means tested.

Thoughts?

Tagged:
«13

Comments

  • rubin16
    rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing

    I think it should be means tested in the terms of if you have something like 16k+ in savings you can't claim.

    I know of so many people who have multiple properties, have so much in savings and sometimes live abroad mostly who still claim pip. For a system that is struggling financially this surely isn't fair.

    There is something that has to give eventually.

    I know there is secret talks going on discussing it, but it seems like a logical thing to do to me.

  • Zipz
    Zipz Online Community Member Posts: 2,669 Championing

    But most PIP claimants do not own multiple properties. Some don't own their own home ( I do) yet still have more than £16 K, which is quite a small sum today.

    PIP claimants do not "live" beyond the UK. Payments stop if you leave the country for more than 13 weeks or 26 weeks if you're having medical treatment.

  • rubin16
    rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing

    I get your views thanks for that. But my point would more stand at those that do own multiple properties, or do have alot of savings (not 16K but maybe higher). I know your saying most don't, but the fact is there is many still that do. My point being this isn't fair, and should be means tested so people who really need it, get it.

  • Zipz
    Zipz Online Community Member Posts: 2,669 Championing

    So how who you means-test PIP ? You said it ought to be taken from anyone with savings of 16K or higher. You seem to be having second thoughts:

    1. UC claimants only?
    2. Tax it as income?
    3. Limit it to people paying the 40% and above tax rates?
    4. Some other criterion/ criteria?
  • sevvo
    sevvo Online Community Member Posts: 7 Listener

    Just because people may have savings etc..this should not stop them getting additional support for helping them cope and get on as best they can with their disability why should people who have saved and are able to work be treated differently! No it should not be means tested! I struggle with work and had to reduce my hours and this benefit helps me greatly

  • rubin16
    rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing

    Thanks for the response, I couldn't see why it would be a problem if we means tested pip and wanted different views on it. but now you've explained I understand more now.

  • rubin16
    rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing

    No I wouldn't be affected, and yes I do think its unfair when people have a large amount of savings and properties to be claiming PIP. When the state is looking at cutting costs of welfare. I'm not aiming at people who would have a dire affect on, just people who don't financially depend on it and it won't hurt whether they claimed it or not.

  • Girl_No1
    Girl_No1 Online Community Member Posts: 368 Pioneering
    edited July 20

    @rubin16 - how would you decide who deserves recognition of their disability/needs and who doesn't?

    You can't really propose something without having some outline of who you would exclude from claiming.

    I've previously suggested that PIP should be a working-age benefit, transferring to AA (i.e. PIP without Mobility element) at state pension age. I've outlined detailed reasons why I believe that. Others disagree. The difference here is: I absolutely would be impacted by my suggestion.

    The easiest thing in the world is to make suggestions in order to maintain your own circumstances (see Starver, Kendall, Timms, Reeves - no impact re benefit changes), it's much more difficult to make suggestions that will impact you.

    Let's reverse the question: What are you willing to relinquish in order to assist the government's (mythical) balance sheet?

  • rubin16
    rubin16 Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 933 Championing

    I'm not getting into a big debate, I just saw that the government was thinking about means testing PIP and was proposing the question would it be a bad thing?? Thats all.

  • Zipz
    Zipz Online Community Member Posts: 2,669 Championing

    You opened a Big Debate @rubin16. And you still haven't said how you'd mean-test PIP. I think you changed your mind about a £16K cut-off. Moreover, who are "these people" you're going on about?

    @Girl_No1 I can see your reasoning. I wouldn't be hit immediately but in the near future.

    I would also be hit if PIP were regarded as taxable income, one form of means-testing but obviously prefer this route to a £16K severance. I'd be interested in what @MW123 and other forum users thought of that way forward.

  • Girl_No1
    Girl_No1 Online Community Member Posts: 368 Pioneering
    edited July 20

    You did, in effect, invite a debate, though! You outlined your active support for these proposals and outlined why you support them. Did you genuinely not consider others would question your rationale/lack of knowledge/naivety when you airily offered your support to cutting benefits to disabled people who are not you?

    Anyway, the bottom line is they will most likely start with taxing it for those who do not claim means-tested benefits, and include it in the benefit cap for those who do.

    I'm old enough to know we really should be careful what we wish for/actively support for others when we're relying on different others (Starmer et al) to define the rules.

    Peace out 👍

  • Dianaf
    Dianaf Online Community Member Posts: 106 Empowering

    I pushed through work for years in pain and mental health and paid tax to support others who gave up work years before me or who had never worked in their lives who had the same conditions as me. I finally couldn't literally get out of bed or even dress myself so I had to give up work through pain and mental health. I have savings because I worked 30 years I think I'm entitled to pip after all that. Means testing would be so wrong

  • Girl_No1
    Girl_No1 Online Community Member Posts: 368 Pioneering

    @Biblioklept

    Precisely how would means-testing be fairer than the four point rule?

    IMO, the four-point rule would ensure what @rubin16 states s/he wants i.e. those in most need (presumably of disability support rather than income which is covered by UC?) receive the support they need.

    BTW, I am definitely not advocating for the four-point rule, although I would expect I personally would be relatively secure in that regard should it be imposed. The point is I (and many like me) are not advocating for something that will affect others, but not us.

    To be clear: I want those who need disability support to receive it at the level of their assessed need, regardless of their income/status.

    I'll be frank, my issue with the initial post was the airy manner in which seemingly unconsidered/uniformed/trope-laden support was given to disenfranchising others to secure their own position. I was being generous in suggesting lack of knowledge/naivety rather than more selfish motives.

    Finally, I'm proud to have worked 40+ years whilst struggling with disability, and will continue to say so whether you or anyone else takes offence about that.

  • Zipz
    Zipz Online Community Member Posts: 2,669 Championing

    If you don't want want to discuss this difficult issue ( not argue) why add to the thread?

    I found some of your remarks confusing.

    Are you suggesting that PIP is ( or ought to be) some sort of state "reward" for home ownership, savings, resilience in the face of disability, hard work, or self-discipline or just the opposite?

    And I'll ask you the same question as I posed to @rubin16 How would you means-test PIP?