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I am worried about my pip assessment and suicide question

happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
Hi, I have a pip assessment next week, this is my second one as i was turned down two years ago. I did not appeal and did not bother to re-apply until one of my health professionals told me to do it.

I struggle on a daily basis, and i have to be helped to have a bath, and to go up and downstairs. I struggle to do a lot of things including dressing myself, and i cannot cook. Due to my health condition i do get depressed and i was disaognised with ptsd from an accident i had. I did not put that on the form last time and did not put that on the form this time, and i did not put down that i have panic attacks. I received four points in total at my last assessment.

During my assessment i was asked to do a couple of things which left me in pain for a week after my assessment which resulted going to the doctor to get stronger painkillers. I am worried that they may force me again to do things that put me in pain. I had tears at my last assessment due to the pain.

They also asked me two years ago due to me saying that i do get depressed because of my condition if i was suicidal. I told them know and they asked me a few times. They asked me if i had ever thought about taking my own life or wished that i was not on the planet. I am not sure why they asked me this. Although i told them no, the truth was that some days i do wake up wishing i was not here due to the level of pain i go through on a daily basis and how my life has changed. I have never though considered taking my own life, although sometimes before i go to sleep i wish that i did not wake up the next day. Does anyone know why they would ask me those questions and if i should tell them the truth or answer like i did last time.

And, can i refuse to do anything that will put me in pain. I did try last time but was forced as they said i had to do it as part of the assessment.

any advice would be great

Replies

  • EricaMcDEricaMcD Community champion Posts: 33 Courageous
    I am sorry to hear that you are struggling in the way you are.  As far as your assessment is concerned I would suggest you let them know if they ask you to do something that will cause you pain that you let them know that yes I can do x but it will cause me pain or I can do x in this way instead.  I know that our pride can stand in our way about letting people know how our disability affects us.  I would be as factual and honest as you can.  Not disclosing how your disability affects your mental health may not help you in the long run.  It is a personal decision about how much you feel comfortable disclosing your mental health at the assessment.
  • deb74deb74 Member Posts: 730 Pioneering
    hi @happyman. I was asked if I had ever thought about suicide. I was honest and told the assessor that about 25 yrs ago I was very depressed and got really close to killing myself. I was that close that I actually had the pills in one hand and a glass of water in the other but I chickened out! After the assessment the assessor apologised for upsetting me because as I tod him about it I had started to cry. I was also asked things like had I every taken drugs but. I haven't got a clue what questions like that have to do with a pip assessment. As for refusing to do things I am not sure but I know I wasn't asked to do any painful tasks
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    am i allowed to say no if they ask me to do something that my doctors advise me not to, and which will put me in a lot of pain. i am confused why they would ask mental health questions. i did say at my last assessment two years ago that sometimes due to the level of pain that i struggle to get out of bed, and also that i have spent two days in bed and a day in bed at different times due to how low i felt. some days my head feels like it is going to explode due to how stressed out i feel. i feel like the world is on my shoulders. i embarrassed myself about telling them this but there was nothing on my report about this. so i am wondering if i should just reply short answers and not go into personal details like that. my health worker was shocked that i only got four points. i did not have the energy to appeal
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @happyman - the assessor needs to have your consent to carry out a physical examination.

    If you don't consent then say no.

     I'd suggest giving an explanation as to why you don't consent, although this isn't necessary...
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    cristobal said:
    @happyman - the assessor needs to have your consent to carry out a physical examination.

    If you don't consent then say no.

     I'd suggest giving an explanation as to why you don't consent, although this isn't necessary...
    thank you. i do not want to go through pain again, but last time they forced me to do something that i struggled to do.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    They can't force you to do anything that causes you pain.

    Is there any reason why you didn't tell them all your conditions on the form? You should put down everything that affects you because they can't assess you properly unless this is done.

    During the assessment the reason they ask you so many questions is because they are trying to get a picture of how your conditions affect you.

    After the assessment wait a week and ring DWP to request a copy of the assessment report. This will give you some idea what the decision is likely to be because they mostly go with the report. You'll still have to wait for a decision but if it's not what your expecting or your not happy then i'd advise requesting the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) then Tribunal if that fails.

    Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • FetlockFetlock Member Posts: 79 Courageous
    You should be told not to attempt anything that causes or might cause you pain.
    In those instances, instead they'll base findings on obseravtions - how you walk to the assessment room, any signs of pain or discomfort during the assessment, whether you could sit down on a chair and rise from it unaided and any signs again of pain or discomfort and gain, any signs as you are sitting.
    They'll observe what you grip, how you remove your coat, reach into your bag, turn your head etc etc for any signs you're having difficulties and of course, any medical evidence will be taken into account too.
    Re the suicide questions, it's not nice to be asked but they do tend to ask anyone reporting anxiety/depression/low mood/mental health problems so as to assess the level of risk
  • SaracenSaracen Member Posts: 66 Courageous

    Happyman


    I read this it helped hope it helps you


    Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

    Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

    If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

    Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

    If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

    Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

    We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the form

  • SaracenSaracen Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    And don't forget 7 days after your assessment phone dwp and ask for a copy of the HP report this is a good guide to what u will get
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    I had my assessment but don't think i will be receiving anything. Two days later i got a text message to say they had my report, which was very quick. I did not feel confident enough to tell the person all about my problems, so was just answering basic yes and no.

    I left the assessment in pain as i went against my doctors orders and struggled to try and do the exercises which i failed on.

    I think with the fast turn around of the report that they will turn me down flat, so looks like i will have to appeal. I have spoken to people who have said it is very rare to have a report sent back so fast.

    I would really value your opinion as an ex assessor
    Saracen said:

    Happyman


    I read this it helped hope it helps you


    Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

    Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

    If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

    Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

    If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

    Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

    We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the form


  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @happyman, we all have our fingers crossed for you and I hope it's a positive outcome. How are you doing today?
    Community Partner
    Scope

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    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Saracen said:
    And don't forget 7 days after your assessment phone dwp and ask for a copy of the HP report this is a good guide to what u will get
    Is that a good idea to ask for the report. I got a text message the day after the assessment the day after saying they have the report but I don't want to push them.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Hi @happyman, we all have our fingers crossed for you and I hope it's a positive outcome. How are you doing today?

    thank you

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sending the report back so quickly doesn't mean anything at all other than it's been returned. You really can't second guess anything at the moment. People's reports can be sent back as quickly as the same day of the assessment and still be awarded.

    Requesting a copy of the report is always useful to see what was written and it will tell you if there's any award recommended. You'll be able to compare the dots against the PIP descriptors to see what you scored, if anything. They usually go with the report and if there's not enough points to recommend and award you can start to write the letter for the MR request. You'll still need to wait for a decision before you can request it but once it's made you can go ahead and send the letter.

    Hopefully it won't be too long till a decision's been made.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Does anyone advise that I ring them today and if so who do I ring 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's no need to contact them regarding this, they are assessing everyone that had a decision made after that date. Once they have looked at your claim again they will send you a decision letter but this could take a considerable length of time due to the amount of claims they need to look through.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    i received my text less than 48 hours after i had my assessment. I have been reading on here about people asking for the report to be sent to them. I am not sure if i should do this or not. If i did phone up would they be able to tell me anything about the descion that has been made or about the report. my assessment was last wednesday.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Whether you ring to request a copy of the assessment report is your choice.

    If you ring them you can ask if a decision's been made, if it has they will tell you. No, they won't be able to tell you anything that's in the report, to know what's in it, you'll need to request it.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @happyman, how are you getting on?
    Community Partner
    Scope

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    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Hi @happyman, how are you getting on?
    I requested my report so i will see what that says. I do not feel i had the chance or the confidence to explain how i cope. For example, when it came to mobility they only asked me if i was confident to plan a familar journey. They did not allow me to explain that i always have some with me and how nervous i get on my own and the problems i face, and how some days i struggle to walk.

    I am not confident they will award me anything with some of the horror stories i have read in the newspapers. They even turned up 20 minutes late after my appointment.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @happyman, thanks for the update! I really hope the report reflects your current situation. It must be annoying they you didn't get the chance to fully explain things, but I hope this doesn't go against the claim!
    Community Partner
    Scope

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  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @happyman   Sorry to hear you had some issues around your assessment.

    Please may I suggest any assessment ask for some assistance if you have a mental health support worker or an outreach worker.  

    They should be with you at any assessment you do. Help you with any form filling in and be in attendance.

    Answering any questions you may have.

    I have been claiming benefits a long time.

    I never say yes for a examination. Nothing in my opinion is more humiliating, embarrassing having someone exam you and have no idea.

    It is not necessary.  I understand what you are going through.  Have compassion.

    I have given evidence and what helps in my opinion once again is being honest, open and be truthful.

    If you need to explain how you are having problems use some notes. I made some bullets points as I referred to them.

    Please can I add one other point if you do not mind. There are positivity stories around the benefit system. 

    Also in my own history with claiming had good ones bad ones and terrible assessments but tend to be focused on the good ones.

    I lost my car on the Motability scheme a year ago but do know there are answers and solutions to be coping. Used taxis and do a lot on line you just deal with what you have  and stay strong have courage.

    Small steps every day.

    Try to stay positive and give yourself some reassurance.

    If you need to appeal if the decision is that we as a community are always here to advise and be supportive.

    One other thing is if you need some help with your mental health.

    Consider mental health charities.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    Used this one last time can help and offer floating support, advice on mental health and well being.

    Assistance with benefits and other aspects of care and health.

    Might not be in all areas sorry to say.

    Hope that helps.

    Please if you need to talk to any one. Happy to do so ready to listen anytime you want to.

    Please take care and keep in touch.  Best wishes for a positive outcome.

    @thespiceman









    Community Champion
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  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    I am so upset, i just cannot believe it. I received the report this morning and the assessor has lied about everything and at the bottom has said that my case should not be reviewed for at least two years. She has given me no points on anything. I cannot believe how many lies she has told.

    I need help in bathing and going to the toilet, and she has put i don't. i explained to her that i need help with therapy each day, and my wife has to go for training on the 24th october for new therapy that she has to do with me each day, and the assessor has said i do not need help with therapy.

    I explained i cannot cook due to the pain, and also due to other problems and she has put down that i can cook which is a complete lie. i was in pain when i was there and explained that is why i could not do some of the tasks that she was asking and she has put down that i was not in pain. i am shocked and disgusted with all the lies on the report.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    can this assessor be reported for lying, i have never seen so many lies in my life
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    do i have to wait for the letter to come through before i can complain about the assessor lying. my head feels like it is about to explode. i do not understand what this woman gets out of lying.
  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    Hi @happyman

    I am in a similar position lying and manipulative assessors lyes are magnified by so called administrators who write pure disability discrimination, It is all about their careers and doing what their employers expect, not about understanding disabilities and the issues that living with a disability can cause. 

  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    dolfrog said:
    Hi @happyman

    I am in a similar position lying and manipulative assessors lyes are magnified by so called administrators who write pure disability discrimination, It is all about their careers and doing what their employers expect, not about understanding disabilities and the issues that living with a disability can cause. 

    i really do not get it. on everything that i told her she lied. I have memory loss due to a serious road traffic accident and she asked me to remember three things. i was crying because it hurt like hell trying to remember them and i could not and she has put down that i could. She then said she asked me to spell world backwards and said i had no problems. i was begging her to stop because the pressure of my brain was killing me and was struggling like mad. she has put i had no trouble at all with this.

  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Saracen said:
    And don't forget 7 days after your assessment phone dwp and ask for a copy of the HP report this is a good guide to what u will get
    please can you share your input on what has happened to me and try and explain what an assessor gets out of lying
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    If I last the year then I will be shocked after those lies and that report 
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @happyman Really sorry this has happened to you, will give you a bit of advice? I know the assessors have lied and bent the truth from what you say or do. 

    Many claimants have been lied to on their forms.

    Your only option is get the decision letter and put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration, then if that fails you can then appeal it.

    But don't write on the form and or accuse them of lying, that really won't go down well at all.

    I know you feel hard done by, but just focus on what you think you should have scored points on and give examples of how your affected functionally.

    Good luck.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    @happyman Really sorry this has happened to you, will give you a bit of advice? I know the assessors have lied and bent the truth from what you say or do. 

    Many claimants have been lied to on their forms.

    Your only option is get the decision letter and put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration, then if that fails you can then appeal it.

    But don't write on the form and or accuse them of lying, that really won't go down well at all.

    I know you feel hard done by, but just focus on what you think you should have scored points on and give examples of how your affected functionally.

    Good luck.
    What is a mandoraty descion. What do I do with it. You say don't mention they lied but this person will do it to other people. Question. Is the form she filled a legal form and if so then can't she be prosecuted for lying 
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    Okay let's sort this @happyman

    1. MR aka mandatory reconsideration. Is what you will have to do when you fail an assessment, once you get the failed decision notice you will have a month to put in for a MR, you can phone the DWP PIP and say you want to do a MR.

    That can take up to 10 weeks to complete, then the DWP will have looked at your claim again to see if it can be changed, if not they will send another letter telling you of that decision.  Sometimes they will change the decision in your favour, but that's not often.

    Just give good answer on the MR form. 

    2. With the failed decision letter from the MR then you then can apply to appeal.

    3. Assessors and the report and it's full of lies. Again "Don't" even mention the lies it will not be wise? It's hard I know, but hold be in mentioning them.

    I hope this you now understand what happens.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    It's a shocking world we live in where's people in a position of trust are allowed to lie and keep doing it knowing nothing will happen to them. That is like a policeman telling lies in court and people know he lies but he is allowed to do it. What type of world do we live in 
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @happyman very true, when It's anything is to do with the tories their always in the right? Not, they think are, and they can just push people around, but they've meet me and I don't stand for it.

    I campaign against them every time. I'm disabled myself and have gone through this process. I don't just let them assessments push me around, I do give them a hard time and I always win.  Only ever had one assessment face to face none ever since. My DLA to PIP was done on paperwork enhanced both rates ongoing, as was my last three ESA's.

    I have good health professionals, also the DWP no full fact I will never improve. So I reply why keep putting me through this, lucky they listen to me.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    @happyman very true, when It's anything is to do with the tories their always in the right? Not, they think are, and they can just push people around, but they've meet me and I don't stand for it.

    I campaign against them every time. I'm disabled myself and have gone through this process. I don't just let them assessments push me around, I do give them a hard time and I always win.  Only ever had one assessment face to face none ever since. My DLA to PIP was done on paperwork enhanced both rates ongoing, as was my last three ESA's.

    I have good health professionals, also the DWP no full fact I will never improve. So I reply why keep putting me through this, lucky they listen to me.
    I don't know how the assessor can sleep at night. So basically, I can't bath myself, I need help getting to the toilet and I am in consent pain all day long. My daughter has to help me with therapy and my wife has to go for training for other therapy I need butcaccording to the assessor I need no help with therapy. I fall all the time and at the moment I have a huge bruise but according to the assessor I don't fall. My wife is upset we won't get help and I am just drained. Because of this report I feel like my family are keeping a closer eye on me than they normally do 
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    @happyman trust me they can sleep at night when their on this money. They wouldn't have a second thought for you or anyone else.  



    Just follow the information I've given you at the start of this conversation.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    What I don't get is, why do t they just contact my doctor and the people who deal with my care. I have a team of four health professionals that I have to see every two weeks. I have to have regular injections as well, so why don't they just speak to them
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @happyman it's very rare they contact your GP etc, that's the claimants job to do? Yes I know they say the will contact bla, bla bla, bu they don't very often.

    Must ask did you send in any evidence with your PIP2 form, if you didn't that's more likely got turned down.

    if you did send evidence with your PIP2 form if it was only generalised information and didn't mention anything about how you function on a daily basis, if it was only the diagnosis listed PIP doesn't just accept that, the DWP want to know how you function daily even though having a diagnosis proves you have a disability or health condition(s).


    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • kensplacekensplace Member Posts: 8 Listener
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.

  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.


    @kensplace As you've skipped the thread the OP has had and failed the PIP assessment. So maybe a good idea to keep up. 👍
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Has anyone been through the process and won or point me to a discussion on site that won
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @happymaan no one can wave a magic wand and or decide you get PIP. I've wrote you some useful information, just follow what Ive said starting with when you get the decision letter through and build your case for the Mandatory reconsideration.
    I'm off to bed now. Take care as best as you can.

    Here is a screenshot that I won for my PIP.


    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    Hi,

    You've had some really good advice from my friend @Government_needs_reform.

    To add to that advice, you really should put the MR request in writing stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    I totally agree that mentioning any of the lies/contradictions in the report will not help your claim. DWP/Tribunal won't be interested in any of those. They will only be interested in where you think you should have scored those points.

    Any complaints about the report should be sent to the health assessment providers, details how to do that will be on their website.

    Evidence should be sent with the letter to support your claim because the onus is on you to make sure it's sent.

    Only 18% of MR decisions change so you'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal. Appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. Waiting times for hearings are huge in most parts of the country and some are waiting as long as 1 year for a hearing date.

    Having some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean always helps because it's not always possible to score the points you think you should score.

    For example, you say you need help getting to the toilet but this isn't included in this activity. For managing toilet needs what is considered is your ability to get on and off the toilet, to manage evacuation of the bladder and/or bowel and to clean afterwards.

    This activity does not consider the ability to manage clothing, climb stairs or mobilise to the toilet.

    Bathing, why do you need help with this? Do you need help to get into a bath? do you use aids to help you do this? If they think aids can reasonably be used, whether you use them or not then they will score you 2 points for needing an aid, rather than needing assistance. If you need assistance then you need to tell them why you need this and why using an aid will not be helpful to you.

    Have a read of these links. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#applying-the-criteria




    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    @happymaan no one can wave a magic wand and or decide you get PIP. I've wrote you some useful information, just follow what Ive said starting with when you get the decision letter through and build your case for the Mandatory reconsideration.
    I'm off to bed now. Take care as best as you can.

    Here is a screenshot that I won for my PIP.

    was this after the tribunal, or when you asked for it to be looked at again


  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @happyman - I'm sorry to hear what you have been going through.

    As others have said you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the decision and to do this successfully you really do familiarise yourself with the information that is available on the links that Poppy has provided.

    It helped me to look at it as though I were sitting an exam - so before I wrote anything I made certain that I understood exactly what the question was. Once I'd done this I avoided things that weren't relevant such as getting up and down stairs ('mobility' doesn't cover that), getting dried after a bath (not covered) etc..

    Once you know what is involved in each area, go through methodically and give examples of what you can't do, whether you need assistance or aids etc.

    Be specific - don't talk in general terms. So when you say that you can't cook be more detailed.

    Cooking comes under 'preparing food' - essentially making a meal for one from fresh ingredients. Are you able to peel and chop? Do you need to sit down whilst you do it? Do you forget that you've left something on the stove? If you have then say what happened?
    Was it dangerous?

    You'll need to go through everything carefully so it will take some time - best to do a little bit each day so that it doesn't become overwhelming.

    Finally don't forget that you are NOT on your own - there are plenty of people on this forum who will help you ...
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    i will follow the advice but, i cannot believe that someone is allowed to lie so much and nothing happens to them. this is shocking. i have read the report at least ten times and it was like they were talking about someone else. all the false information they put on there is shocking. i feel like going to my mp or something because this person should not be allowed to get away with this.

    if this woman is not stopped then she will continue to tell lies on lots of other reports. this is so wrong
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    cristobal said:
    @happyman - I'm sorry to hear what you have been going through.

    As others have said you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the decision and to do this successfully you really do familiarise yourself with the information that is available on the links that Poppy has provided.

    It helped me to look at it as though I were sitting an exam - so before I wrote anything I made certain that I understood exactly what the question was. Once I'd done this I avoided things that weren't relevant such as getting up and down stairs ('mobility' doesn't cover that), getting dried after a bath (not covered) etc..

    Once you know what is involved in each area, go through methodically and give examples of what you can't do, whether you need assistance or aids etc.

    Be specific - don't talk in general terms. So when you say that you can't cook be more detailed.

    Cooking comes under 'preparing food' - essentially making a meal for one from fresh ingredients. Are you able to peel and chop? Do you need to sit down whilst you do it? Do you forget that you've left something on the stove? If you have then say what happened?
    Was it dangerous?

    You'll need to go through everything carefully so it will take some time - best to do a little bit each day so that it doesn't become overwhelming.

    Finally don't forget that you are NOT on your own - there are plenty of people on this forum who will help you ...

    thank you. i am rubbish at filling in forms and doing all this and that is what i am worried about. i have been told that going to c a b would be a waste of time. i just dont understand the lies on the report. she has put on there that i did things which i did not. she also put down that i successful did some tests that she did and i told her i couldnt. i have read alot about the mandoraty decision and it says that basically they just go in favour of the assessor.
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @happyman No it wasn't, I've never had to do a MR or an appeal ever, I stated my case through by filling all the PIP forms in and added all my evidence to backup everything I've said back on the posts above.

    Im paralysed, amongst many other disabilities I have carers that look after me as I'm on my own. When I get good days I do campaigning now and a Labour Member.

    I also advise you to read @poppy123456 has also stated above, she also has good knowledge of how the process works.



    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @happyman, I'm sorry to hear about how untrue the report was, and I imagine this cannot have been nice to read! Poppy has attached some great information about the mandatory reconsideration, but please do let us know if there is anything else we can do to help. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    @happyman I'm gonna add one more thing here for you.

    Please, please don't let it worry you, but I know it will? Forget about the lies it's happened, it wrong agree but you just need to build your case from this without saying she lied, get your family to help you with the forms if you can't manage it.

    let the lies and untruths go it will only go against you. Let us know how you get on, good luck.
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.

    Welcome to the community @kensplace, it's great to have you here. :)
    I'm so sorry to read about how unfair the assessor was! 
    Did you appeal the decision?
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,998 Disability Gamechanger
    happyman said:
    cristobal said:
    @happyman - I'm sorry to hear what you have been going through.

    As others have said you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the decision and to do this successfully you really do familiarise yourself with the information that is available on the links that Poppy has provided.

    It helped me to look at it as though I were sitting an exam - so before I wrote anything I made certain that I understood exactly what the question was. Once I'd done this I avoided things that weren't relevant such as getting up and down stairs ('mobility' doesn't cover that), getting dried after a bath (not covered) etc..

    Once you know what is involved in each area, go through methodically and give examples of what you can't do, whether you need assistance or aids etc.

    Be specific - don't talk in general terms. So when you say that you can't cook be more detailed.

    Cooking comes under 'preparing food' - essentially making a meal for one from fresh ingredients. Are you able to peel and chop? Do you need to sit down whilst you do it? Do you forget that you've left something on the stove? If you have then say what happened?
    Was it dangerous?

    You'll need to go through everything carefully so it will take some time - best to do a little bit each day so that it doesn't become overwhelming.

    Finally don't forget that you are NOT on your own - there are plenty of people on this forum who will help you ...

    thank you. i am rubbish at filling in forms and doing all this and that is what i am worried about. i have been told that going to c a b would be a waste of time. i just dont understand the lies on the report. she has put on there that i did things which i did not. she also put down that i successful did some tests that she did and i told her i couldnt. i have read alot about the mandoraty decision and it says that basically they just go in favour of the assessor.
    Hi Happyman..I`ve read through this post and all it`s comments.
    I am at the point where I`m awaiting the decision following my f2f on the 3rd Oct.

    I see so often that we are advised to ask for a copy of their report. But I cant bear the thought of reading possible lie and then having to wait until the decision comes. I know it would completely do my head in. Like you, I simply cannot believe how these assessors lies are upheld. Why on earth is this allowed to continue? The government must know what`s going on. We teach our children to be honest, yet the highest office gets away with lying. It is totally wrong and goes against everything we were brought up with.

    I feel so bad for you and worry that I may get the same treatment, despite needing huge amounts of help to live daily.

    My best wishes to you and your family.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    happyman said:
    cristobal said:
    @happyman - I'm sorry to hear what you have been going through.

    As others have said you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration of the decision and to do this successfully you really do familiarise yourself with the information that is available on the links that Poppy has provided.

    It helped me to look at it as though I were sitting an exam - so before I wrote anything I made certain that I understood exactly what the question was. Once I'd done this I avoided things that weren't relevant such as getting up and down stairs ('mobility' doesn't cover that), getting dried after a bath (not covered) etc..

    Once you know what is involved in each area, go through methodically and give examples of what you can't do, whether you need assistance or aids etc.

    Be specific - don't talk in general terms. So when you say that you can't cook be more detailed.

    Cooking comes under 'preparing food' - essentially making a meal for one from fresh ingredients. Are you able to peel and chop? Do you need to sit down whilst you do it? Do you forget that you've left something on the stove? If you have then say what happened?
    Was it dangerous?

    You'll need to go through everything carefully so it will take some time - best to do a little bit each day so that it doesn't become overwhelming.

    Finally don't forget that you are NOT on your own - there are plenty of people on this forum who will help you ...

    thank you. i am rubbish at filling in forms and doing all this and that is what i am worried about. i have been told that going to c a b would be a waste of time. i just dont understand the lies on the report. she has put on there that i did things which i did not. she also put down that i successful did some tests that she did and i told her i couldnt. i have read alot about the mandoraty decision and it says that basically they just go in favour of the assessor.
    Hi Happyman..I`ve read through this post and all it`s comments.
    I am at the point where I`m awaiting the decision following my f2f on the 3rd Oct.

    I see so often that we are advised to ask for a copy of their report. But I cant bear the thought of reading possible lie and then having to wait until the decision comes. I know it would completely do my head in. Like you, I simply cannot believe how these assessors lies are upheld. Why on earth is this allowed to continue? The government must know what`s going on. We teach our children to be honest, yet the highest office gets away with lying. It is totally wrong and goes against everything we were brought up with.

    I feel so bad for you and worry that I may get the same treatment, despite needing huge amounts of help to live daily.

    My best wishes to you and your family.
    Thank you. I have just come from an emergency appointment with you doctor. They have said they have shocked and if they started to contact the medical people looking after patient service thn they would get the real story. They have told me not to let it go and fight it. I am just worried about forms etc as I am no good at stuff like this 
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,998 Disability Gamechanger
    I know hun....it is so stressful...but yes, do find the strength to fight on. I feel for you..really I do. xx I will fight mine if it comes down to it. xx
  • kensplacekensplace Member Posts: 8 Listener
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.

    Welcome to the community @kensplace, it's great to have you here. :)
    I'm so sorry to read about how unfair the assessor was! 
    Did you appeal the decision?
    Thanks Chloe, yes I appealed, and eventually won.  In fact year after year I appealed and won as they did it over and over to me.. One year I lost the appeal as welfare rights "forgot" to turn up so it ended going to upper tribunal - I won that too.....   The horror stories I could tell...

  • kensplacekensplace Member Posts: 8 Listener
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.


    @kensplace As you've skipped the thread the OP has had and failed the PIP assessment. So maybe a good idea to keep up. 👍
    Struggle with reading whole theads like this as my blood boils when I remember the hell I went through with IB and ESA and even a pip claim.
    Sometimes just reply to the o/p and come back later to read more.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    kensplace said:
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.

    Welcome to the community @kensplace, it's great to have you here. :)
    I'm so sorry to read about how unfair the assessor was! 
    Did you appeal the decision?
    Thanks Chloe, yes I appealed, and eventually won.  In fact year after year I appealed and won as they did it over and over to me.. One year I lost the appeal as welfare rights "forgot" to turn up so it ended going to upper tribunal - I won that too.....   The horror stories I could tell...

    please share your experience
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    after sleeping on it i am not sure if i am going to appeal. I went to my doctors and they were shocked and disgusted. They said i need the help, but they are also worried about me being rejected. They said, all PIP need to do is to spend 24 hours with me and see the problems i face each day. They are concerned how it will affect my stress levels. The problem I have is, why appeal when i am not allowed to mention how many lies the assessor told, which includes saying i did tests which i refused to do. When a person reads my application form, and then reads my appeal, and then reads a so called professional (the assessor) they are going to and unstandably say well the assessor says he is fine, he did that test and did this test. i was perfectly fine. They are not going to go with my appeal are they. The pip assessor form should be a legal document where if it has false information on it then the person filling it in can be charged with the public office offence. My wife reduced her work hours by half so she could look after me, and my daughter gave up her promotion to look after me. I struggle with forms, so the way i feel at the moment is, what is the point in appealing. its a shame there was not a professional organisation who helps people with the appeal process. It is like these assessors get a bonus for lying and keeping people from getting help
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    kensplace said:
    kensplace said:
    SKipped past rest of thread just replying to o/p post.   
    It most likely does not matter what you say, the assessor will lie anyway.  YOu might get lucky and get a honest one, but expect them to be scum and to lie and disregard what you say.
    Re suicide - I once told my story to a assessor (missing a limb he was in case he is reading so he recognises himself) and he actually said to me if your life went so bad and things got so bad how come you did not kill yourself. Basically he did not believe I could be mentally ill as I was alive.....Thtas the sort of scum Im on about....
    Dont worry. Just ask for the assessment to be recorded and expect a pack of lies to come through the post. If your lucky and its fine then all is well its a win. If not at least you expected the worst...... DO NOT TRUST THEM.  
    Take a witness also.

    Welcome to the community @kensplace, it's great to have you here. :)
    I'm so sorry to read about how unfair the assessor was! 
    Did you appeal the decision?
    Thanks Chloe, yes I appealed, and eventually won.  In fact year after year I appealed and won as they did it over and over to me.. One year I lost the appeal as welfare rights "forgot" to turn up so it ended going to upper tribunal - I won that too.....   The horror stories I could tell...

    when you go to a pip assessment and vulnerable you don't expect to be asked why you have tried suicide yet 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No one said you weren’t actually allowed to mention the lies and contradictions in the report. What was advised was if you do mention them then it won’t help you because you can’t prove what did or didn’t happen.

    You need to prove those descriptors apply to you and doing so will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

     A poorly presented case can often lead to refusal, which is why you were advised against mentioning those lies. 

    The MR decision will most likely remain the same but appearing in person at your Tribunal hearing will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    No one said you weren’t actually allowed to mention the lies and contradictions in the report. ...You need to prove those descriptors apply to you and doing so will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

    @happyman - I agree with Poppy on this. My assessment wasn't done well and had a lot of lies, misrepresentation and inaccuracies. Like a lot of people who post on here I was annoyed and upset and I began to focus on the tiniest little thing - even down to the assessor being late and not shutting the door.

    Looking back I dealt with this very badly:-

    Even if you can prove that the assessor lied it's a hollow victory. You need to show why you should get PIP and 'disproving' the reasons the assessor gave for you not getting it won't achieve this. If the assessor said that you can walk 200 metres and you can show that this is wrong you still haven't evidenced how far you can walk.

    It's hard to be positive when you've been treated unfairly but concentrating on negative things (as I found to my cost) isn't the way to go...
  • jaktagjaktag Member Posts: 19 Connected
    I am so sorry you  feel as bad as you do.I am awaiting my PIP decision.The assessors report was full of lies,like most of them are.I fear i will get nothing too and if i do get nothing i cant face appealing it.Whats the point its a corrupt system.I am glad i will claim my state pension in 5 years.I just wish it was a few year nearer for me.That way i could tell them to stick their PIP and ESA.Like you i am totally disgusted with it all and too ill to fight them.Its about time something changed for the better.We have years more of fighting the corrups system too as i have a severely autistic 6 yr old granddaughter.We have had to fight for her diagnosis and her education.Its never ending.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,998 Disability Gamechanger
    happyman said:
    after sleeping on it i am not sure if i am going to appeal. I went to my doctors and they were shocked and disgusted. They said i need the help, but they are also worried about me being rejected. They said, all PIP need to do is to spend 24 hours with me and see the problems i face each day. They are concerned how it will affect my stress levels. The problem I have is, why appeal when i am not allowed to mention how many lies the assessor told, which includes saying i did tests which i refused to do. When a person reads my application form, and then reads my appeal, and then reads a so called professional (the assessor) they are going to and unstandably say well the assessor says he is fine, he did that test and did this test. i was perfectly fine. They are not going to go with my appeal are they. The pip assessor form should be a legal document where if it has false information on it then the person filling it in can be charged with the public office offence. My wife reduced her work hours by half so she could look after me, and my daughter gave up her promotion to look after me. I struggle with forms, so the way i feel at the moment is, what is the point in appealing. its a shame there was not a professional organisation who helps people with the appeal process. It is like these assessors get a bonus for lying and keeping people from getting help
    Hello again....this is exactly what THEY hope you`ll do ie give up! Please dont give up. You are focussing so much on the lies...which of course we all understand and feel aggrieved by....but dont let that crowd your mind and block out the high chance of a turnaround at tribunal.
    I am expecting a bad result but WILL fight it.......come on, we`re all behind you on this chuck xxxx
  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    happyman said:
    after sleeping on it i am not sure if i am going to appeal. I went to my doctors and they were shocked and disgusted. They said i need the help, but they are also worried about me being rejected. They said, all PIP need to do is to spend 24 hours with me and see the problems i face each day. They are concerned how it will affect my stress levels. The problem I have is, why appeal when i am not allowed to mention how many lies the assessor told, which includes saying i did tests which i refused to do. When a person reads my application form, and then reads my appeal, and then reads a so called professional (the assessor) they are going to and unstandably say well the assessor says he is fine, he did that test and did this test. i was perfectly fine. They are not going to go with my appeal are they. The pip assessor form should be a legal document where if it has false information on it then the person filling it in can be charged with the public office offence. My wife reduced her work hours by half so she could look after me, and my daughter gave up her promotion to look after me. I struggle with forms, so the way i feel at the moment is, what is the point in appealing. its a shame there was not a professional organisation who helps people with the appeal process. It is like these assessors get a bonus for lying and keeping people from getting help
    The real problem is that the assessors are employed by companies hired by the UK government to radically reduce the number of individuals who are claiming disability related benefits. They have no real interest in understanding the real issues we experience on a day to day basis. It is all about reducing disability related benefits so the the government can reduce taxes and so that the politicians and those who fund them can make more money and get richer at the expense of the disabled. So the lies and manipulation of the system are how they try to explain deny the disabled the support they need, so that they and their sponsors can make more money by avoiding providing the support those who may have a wide variety of disabilities may require.

    My PIPs Tribunal hearing was ajourned last week.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    dolfrog said:
    happyman said:
    after sleeping on it i am not sure if i am going to appeal. I went to my doctors and they were shocked and disgusted. They said i need the help, but they are also worried about me being rejected. They said, all PIP need to do is to spend 24 hours with me and see the problems i face each day. They are concerned how it will affect my stress levels. The problem I have is, why appeal when i am not allowed to mention how many lies the assessor told, which includes saying i did tests which i refused to do. When a person reads my application form, and then reads my appeal, and then reads a so called professional (the assessor) they are going to and unstandably say well the assessor says he is fine, he did that test and did this test. i was perfectly fine. They are not going to go with my appeal are they. The pip assessor form should be a legal document where if it has false information on it then the person filling it in can be charged with the public office offence. My wife reduced her work hours by half so she could look after me, and my daughter gave up her promotion to look after me. I struggle with forms, so the way i feel at the moment is, what is the point in appealing. its a shame there was not a professional organisation who helps people with the appeal process. It is like these assessors get a bonus for lying and keeping people from getting help
    The real problem is that the assessors are employed by companies hired by the UK government to radically reduce the number of individuals who are claiming disability related benefits. They have no real interest in understanding the real issues we experience on a day to day basis. It is all about reducing disability related benefits so the the government can reduce taxes and so that the politicians and those who fund them can make more money and get richer at the expense of the disabled. So the lies and manipulation of the system are how they try to explain deny the disabled the support they need, so that they and their sponsors can make more money by avoiding providing the support those who may have a wide variety of disabilities may require.

    My PIPs Tribunal hearing was ajourned last week.
    why was is ajounred
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    happyman said:
    after sleeping on it i am not sure if i am going to appeal. I went to my doctors and they were shocked and disgusted. They said i need the help, but they are also worried about me being rejected. They said, all PIP need to do is to spend 24 hours with me and see the problems i face each day. They are concerned how it will affect my stress levels. The problem I have is, why appeal when i am not allowed to mention how many lies the assessor told, which includes saying i did tests which i refused to do. When a person reads my application form, and then reads my appeal, and then reads a so called professional (the assessor) they are going to and unstandably say well the assessor says he is fine, he did that test and did this test. i was perfectly fine. They are not going to go with my appeal are they. The pip assessor form should be a legal document where if it has false information on it then the person filling it in can be charged with the public office offence. My wife reduced her work hours by half so she could look after me, and my daughter gave up her promotion to look after me. I struggle with forms, so the way i feel at the moment is, what is the point in appealing. its a shame there was not a professional organisation who helps people with the appeal process. It is like these assessors get a bonus for lying and keeping people from getting help
    Hello again....this is exactly what THEY hope you`ll do ie give up! Please dont give up. You are focussing so much on the lies...which of course we all understand and feel aggrieved by....but dont let that crowd your mind and block out the high chance of a turnaround at tribunal.
    I am expecting a bad result but WILL fight it.......come on, we`re all behind you on this chuck xxxx
    I have panic attacks, and the thought of me having to go to a tribunal scares me, being in a room full of strangers.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    No one said you weren’t actually allowed to mention the lies and contradictions in the report. What was advised was if you do mention them then it won’t help you because you can’t prove what did or didn’t happen.

    You need to prove those descriptors apply to you and doing so will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

     A poorly presented case can often lead to refusal, which is why you were advised against mentioning those lies. 

    The MR decision will most likely remain the same but appearing in person at your Tribunal hearing will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. 
    appearing in person worries me. I struggle with strangers.
  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    Because they, the panel, needed time to read the international research that explains the complex nature of my disability, which was ignored by the assessor and colleagues who produced a report which was pure disability discrimination.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @happyman it is not a room full of people. It’s 3-4 people say around a table. It’s not a court room and nothing formal like a court. They are totally independent to DWP and the health assessment providers. Take someone with you, a family member or a friend. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    happyman said:
    No one said you weren’t actually allowed to mention the lies and contradictions in the report. What was advised was if you do mention them then it won’t help you because you can’t prove what did or didn’t happen.

    You need to prove those descriptors apply to you and doing so will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

     A poorly presented case can often lead to refusal, which is why you were advised against mentioning those lies. 

    The MR decision will most likely remain the same but appearing in person at your Tribunal hearing will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. 
    appearing in person worries me. I struggle with strangers.
    What you are describing could be Auditory Processing Disorder, which is my specific disability, the brain having problems processing the sounds that the ears hear, which can include sound based communication such as speech. Strangers pose a problem as we are not familiar with their body language and lip movements when they speak, this can be a coping strategy to work around our limitations using lipreading and reading body language. 
    The temporal type of Auditory Processing Disorder, having problems processing the gaps between sounds which can include the gaps between words in rapid speech, is the main underlying cognitive cause of dyslexia, which can cause problems when having to fill out forms created by others using new and unfamiliar terminology to make issues difficult to understand by the general population. 
    I was the first adult in the UK to be clinically diagnosed as having Auditory Processing Disorder back in 2003, at the request of the UK Medical Research Council so that I could set up and help run a support organisation for those diagnosed  as having Auditory Processing Disorder by their 5 year Auditory Processing Disorder research program 2004-2009.
    Unfortunately we are still having to educate UK audiologists regarding the Four types of Auditory processing Disorder 

  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Can I ask when you do the mandority review, has anyone gone to their  doctor for a letter and anyone who is treating them to send with the review letter. I have no confidence so I am not sure if it is a good thing to do or not. The last thing I want to do is annoy the people treating Me
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A letter from a GP isn’t the best evidence to send because they very rarely know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. They mostly only know the basics like medication and diagnosis etc.

    The best thing you can do when writing the MR is to give 2/3 real life examples. 
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Can anyone send me a successfull review letter and example how to set out the reasons please 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    happyman said:
    Can anyone send me a successfull review letter and example how to set out the reasons please 
    I’m assuming you mean MR request letter and not a review letter? If so then you can’t compare someone else to yourself because all conditions are different. 

    What i I advise you to do is look at the descriptors and start with activity one preparing food... are you able to prepare and cook a simple meal yourself? If you can’t why can’t you? Do you need an aid? If so why? Then add the examples.

    Do be aware that if an aid can reasonably be used, you will score points for this rather than score points for needing assistance.  If you need assistance then you must tell them why this is needed and what happened the last time you attempted that activity alone. 

    Have you read read the link I posted in one of the comments? I would urge you to spend some time to read that link because it will give you a better understanding of the descriptors and what they mean. Having some knowledge definitely helps. There’s a lot of very useful information in that link. It’s very easy to score yourself points if you don’t fully understand it and it’s not always possible to score the points you think you should score. 

    The only person that knows how your conditions affect you is yourself. 

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    happyman said:
    Can anyone send me a successfull review letter and example how to set out the reasons please 
    I’m assuming you mean MR request letter and not a review letter? If so then you can’t compare someone else to yourself because all conditions are different. 

    What i I advise you to do is look at the descriptors and start with activity one preparing food... are you able to prepare and cook a simple meal yourself? If you can’t why can’t you? Do you need an aid? If so why? Then add the examples.

    Do be aware that if an aid can reasonably be used, you will score points for this rather than score points for needing assistance.  If you need assistance then you must tell them why this is needed and what happened the last time you attempted that activity alone. 

    Have you read read the link I posted in one of the comments? I would urge you to spend some time to read that link because it will give you a better understanding of the descriptors and what they mean. Having some knowledge definitely helps. There’s a lot of very useful information in that link. It’s very easy to score yourself points if you don’t fully understand it and it’s not always possible to score the points you think you should score. 

    The only person that knows how your conditions affect you is yourself. 

    I have not said copy have I. What I am looking at is the correct way of doing like you would for a c v or a p p I letter. 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @happyman, how are you getting on today? :)
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  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    i got the letter today which said i scored no points. i am so shocked. my doctor has said i need to appeal and my health team including a nurse has said i need to appeal. but, reading what has been said and how they most of the time go with the assessment and the automatic appeal, and then having to wait a year to go through the appeal process, i am not sure if i have the energy to do it
  • EricaMcDEricaMcD Community champion Posts: 33 Courageous
    I am sorry to hear the outcome of your assessment.  Please follow the advice of your doctor and health team.  This is the time to let friends support you emotionally and in any other way they can.  If you haven't gone onto the benefits and work website?  If not,. you and others supporting you may find this website useful in submitting an appeal.  Please keep us in the community informed about how you are doing.        
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    Hi @happyman, I am so sorry to hear this. I imagine appealing is a big decision for you. It is completely your choice about whether or not you appeal. Yet I can assure you that the community can support you through this.

    The first stage of an appeal is a mandatory reconsideration. Ideally this is done within a month of the decision being made. This can be done online where you outline 2-3 times which descriptors you meet and why (using real life examples). 

    If we can help in any other way then please do let us know.
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    Scope

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    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    Hi @happyman, I am so sorry to hear this. I imagine appealing is a big decision for you. It is completely your choice about whether or not you appeal. Yet I can assure you that the community can support you through this.

    The first stage of an appeal is a mandatory reconsideration. Ideally this is done within a month of the decision being made. This can be done online where you outline 2-3 times which descriptors you meet and why (using real life examples). 

    If we can help in any other way then please do let us know.
    Thank you.

    Can I ask if anyone has had any success reporting their assessor for lying. As you know my assessor lied more than ten times in the report, which includes saying i did tests that i refused to do because of pain, and also putting down tests that i was never asked to do.

    So, i am wondering if anyone has had any success in reporting their assessor for lying. Also, is the assessment report a legal document or an official document, and if so, can the assessor be investigated by the police for lying on a legal or official report.

    Also, i have read that PIP have introduced where the assessments are recorded either through video or sound recording. I was not told about this in the meeting. I would like to know if this is true as if it is then the recording will show the officials at PIP that the assessor lied more than ten times. And if they do record them, how do i get a hold of the recording to use in my appeal.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    Question answered here on your other thread.

    Hi,

    No, PIP assessments are not recorded by the health assessment providers. If a claimant wants to record the assessment they need to make arrangements for the correct recording equipment and contact the health assessment providers to tell them they will be recording it.

    When requesting the MR regardless of all the lies in the report you should avoid mentioning them because they won't be interested in any of them. They will only be interested in where and why you think you should have scored those points. Adding a couple of real life examples will also help.

    Lots of people complain to the health assessment providers about assessment reports but there's rarely anything done about it. You may get acknowledgment of the complaint but don't expect anything more than that.

    No the assessment report isn't a legal official document and reporting it to the police won't get you anywhere because it's simply your word against theirs.

    You're better off concentrating on the MR and Tribunal if that fails and most do.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • happymanhappyman Member Posts: 57 Connected
    please explain the last sentence, if that fails and most do.

    this is just one of the places where i read about the recordings of assessments


  • paffuto10paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
    @happyman

    Hello there, nice to meet you. 

    I am so sorry that you are being made to suffer in this way. Many people are being treated the same way, so know that you're not at all alone. 

    I think what people are saying on this thread is that you need to concentrate on getting your needs and difficulties across, rather than continue to fret about the lies or discrepancies. 

    Easier said than done, I know. It's absolutely awful when false things are written about you. 

    If your assessment had been recorded they would have had to ask your permission so it wasn't recorded. 

    I think the way the recording issue works, is that you request it in writing, they may give permission but you need to have 2 recordings done at the same time. One for them and one for yourself. 

    If I am wrong about that someone will probably come in here to explain. 

    If you make a complaint about the lies it will be your word against theirs. 
    Sorry I don't personally know of anyone who has tried or succeeded with a complaint. 

    I have read the full post and I really would like to see you press further with a mandatory reconsideration. 

    If you spend time and energy on complaints you will have little left of yourself for the MR. 

    Do you have someone who can help you with the MR? 

    If you can succeed, then you have beaten the assessor in a better way than making complaints. 
    That's the way I look at it. 

    I hope my advice is helpful, I really do. 
    I fully understand and empathise. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    happyman said:
    please explain the last sentence, if that fails and most do.

    this is just one of the places where i read about the recordings of assessments


    If that fails and most do.... meaning if the MR fails and most do then it's Tribunal.

    It was announced in 2018 that they were talking about recording PIP assessment but that's as far as it got i'm afraid. Nothing came of it and no they do not record PIP assessments through voice or video.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • FetlockFetlock Member Posts: 79 Courageous
    edited October 2019
    happyman said:
    please explain the last sentence, if that fails and most do.

    this is just one of the places where i read about the recordings of assessments


    If that fails and most do.... meaning if the MR fails and most do then it's Tribunal.

    It was announced in 2018 that they were talking about recording PIP assessment but that's as far as it got i'm afraid. Nothing came of it and no they do not record PIP assessments through voice or video.
    I read something the other day about this. It may have been in a FOI request someone had done, but not sure.
    It said something on the lines of that they'd tried audio recording assessments previously, but the majority of claimants had refused to be recorded/or hadn't wanted it, and the video recording trial was now concluded and they were analysing the results.

    Edited to add the (now found) link

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