Care Needs assessment - no time limit

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  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    Very good idea. I may try it myself! 
  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,866 Championing
    That's awful @Wibbles and always the way isn't it, needing to bring it to the attention of the boss.

    Were you happy with the response? 
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Online Community Member Posts: 2,692 Championing
    That's awful @Wibbles and always the way isn't it, needing to bring it to the attention of the boss.

    Were you happy with the response? 

    I am not happy
    I have been refused a Care Needs Assessment - due to having "EXCESS CAPITAL"
    I have replied that I am ENTITLED to an assessment and this has been ignored
  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    edited February 2023
    Wibbles, 

    I am currently dealing with a similar issue. They tried to fob me off to avoid doing a proper in depth needs assessment because I supposedly do not meet my local council’s financial eligibility criteria. This is in contravention of the care act where a detailed needs assessment needs to be done first and separately to the financial assessment. Am finding this organisation (link below) really helpful- will be using their guidance and step by step tool kit for having a proper needs assessment in accordance with the care act really helpful. The needs assessment like an ECHP is actually a legal document. 

    You will need to dig around the site to get all the info. I think in step 5 of the tool kit (I lent out all my papers on it to a person helping me) there is info on how to get free legal advice on the care act through another organisation and guidance on how to take it to an ombudsman. 


    I am now also using an advocacy service - apparently you have a statutory right to such advocacy for any needs assessments as a disabled person. (Beware advocates are more often than not extensively trained in the care act and it is in your interests to find out the law with regards to your particular situation- I have learned through experience that the council’s interpretation of the law including their own policies and procedures may not always be entirely correct - some junior advocates may understand this and may not critically evaluate the council’s possibly erroneous conclusions/policies and procedures. The point I am trying to make is try to learn about the care act yourself and get care act legal advice if you can in addition to just relying on an advocacy service that isn’t run by solicitors).  

    Hope this is actually useful and I haven’t repeated anything others have been saying as I am giving my ideas on the fly and admittedly haven’t had the time to go through all previous comments pertaining to this. 

    The disability law service in London - who have a care act helpline for a couple of hours a couple of times a week at set times - has given me personalised advice by phone with a detailed follow up email about my personal situation with regards to the council’s assessment of my financial situation.  

    It is a lot to get your head around I know. I have also gone through the statutory guidance on the care act of the gov.uk website and printed off the sections relevant to my situation- this along with the care act tool box stuff I mentioned before helps me know what questions to ask when I can access small amounts of highly precious personally tailored free legal advice. 
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Online Community Member Posts: 2,692 Championing
    I have CAB on the case - hopefully, they will sort it out for me.
  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    edited February 2023
    I wish you luck 🤞and hope their assistance will suffice in your particular situation. I personally have had mixed experiences with CAB. 
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Online Community Member Posts: 2,692 Championing
    Camellia said:
    I wish you luck 🤞and hope their assistance will suffice in your particular situation. I personally have had mixed experiences with CAB. 
    My local CAB branch helped me last year to get high rate PIP. (care and mobility) successfully
    And previous to that - medical retirement from my local authority employer 
  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    Sounds like you have some good people who get your particular situation and are able to successfully advocate for you at your CAB which is great 👍 
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Online Community Member Posts: 2,692 Championing
    Camellia said:
    Sounds like you have some good people who get your particular situation and are able to successfully advocate for you at your CAB which is great 👍 
    They are helpful and understanding 
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 927 Pioneering
    Camellia said:
    Wibbles, 

    I am currently dealing with a similar issue. They tried to fob me off to avoid doing a proper in depth needs assessment because I supposedly do not meet my local council’s financial eligibility criteria. This is in contravention of the care act where a detailed needs assessment needs to be done first and separately to the financial assessment. Am finding this organisation (link below) really helpful- will be using their guidance and step by step tool kit for having a proper needs assessment in accordance with the care act really helpful. The needs assessment like an ECHP is actually a legal document. 

    You will need to dig around the site to get all the info. I think in step 5 of the tool kit (I lent out all my papers on it to a person helping me) there is info on how to get free legal advice on the care act through another organisation and guidance on how to take it to an ombudsman. 


    I am now also using an advocacy service - apparently you have a statutory right to such advocacy for any needs assessments as a disabled person. (Beware advocates are more often than not extensively trained in the care act and it is in your interests to find out the law with regards to your particular situation- I have learned through experience that the council’s interpretation of the law including their own policies and procedures may not always be entirely correct - some junior advocates may understand this and may not critically evaluate the council’s possibly erroneous conclusions/policies and procedures. The point I am trying to make is try to learn about the care act yourself and get care act legal advice if you can in addition to just relying on an advocacy service that isn’t run by solicitors).  

    Hope this is actually useful and I haven’t repeated anything others have been saying as I am giving my ideas on the fly and admittedly haven’t had the time to go through all previous comments pertaining to this. 

    The disability law service in London - who have a care act helpline for a couple of hours a couple of times a week at set times - has given me personalised advice by phone with a detailed follow up email about my personal situation with regards to the council’s assessment of my financial situation.  

    It is a lot to get your head around I know. I have also gone through the statutory guidance on the care act of the gov.uk website and printed off the sections relevant to my situation- this along with the care act tool box stuff I mentioned before helps me know what questions to ask when I can access small amounts of highly precious personally tailored free legal advice. 
      Brilliant advice, great read for me to compare notes.  Would advise every one to down load link and read.  Similar to what I have already started so will be joining that campaign to get better simple English responses.  
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Online Community Member Posts: 2,692 Championing
    edited February 2023
    I have, this morning - received an email from the adult care section - informing me "I am now forwarding your email to the relevant Adult Social Care team for their attention."
    This is over 6 months - since I originally requested an assessment !!
    The added issue is that I do have too much savings (why did I bother living frugally for 40 years ?) to claim a single penny from the council so have no real idea what they can do for me - except for being there in an emergency..........

    My wife/carer has looked after me for over 20 years - without a break - totally on ger own with no support at all


  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    edited February 2023
    @Wibbles it sounds like you were on a waiting list…….for the waiting list 

    As for your funding eligibility (or lack of) due to some savings; I agree with you.. I don’t think it is fair.  
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Online Community Member Posts: 21,922 Championing
    @Wibbles at least they maybe able to suggest some solutions and sign post you to where you could get what you need even if your not eligible for funding you may have to pay for the care 
  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    Camellia said:
    Wibbles, 

    I am currently dealing with a similar issue. They tried to fob me off to avoid doing a proper in depth needs assessment because I supposedly do not meet my local council’s financial eligibility criteria. This is in contravention of the care act where a detailed needs assessment needs to be done first and separately to the financial assessment. Am finding this organisation (link below) really helpful- will be using their guidance and step by step tool kit for having a proper needs assessment in accordance with the care act really helpful. The needs assessment like an ECHP is actually a legal document. 

    You will need to dig around the site to get all the info. I think in step 5 of the tool kit (I lent out all my papers on it to a person helping me) there is info on how to get free legal advice on the care act through another organisation and guidance on how to take it to an ombudsman. 


    I am now also using an advocacy service - apparently you have a statutory right to such advocacy for any needs assessments as a disabled person. (Beware advocates are more often than not extensively trained in the care act and it is in your interests to find out the law with regards to your particular situation- I have learned through experience that the council’s interpretation of the law including their own policies and procedures may not always be entirely correct - some junior advocates may understand this and may not critically evaluate the council’s possibly erroneous conclusions/policies and procedures. The point I am trying to make is try to learn about the care act yourself and get care act legal advice if you can in addition to just relying on an advocacy service that isn’t run by solicitors).  

    Hope this is actually useful and I haven’t repeated anything others have been saying as I am giving my ideas on the fly and admittedly haven’t had the time to go through all previous comments pertaining to this. 

    The disability law service in London - who have a care act helpline for a couple of hours a couple of times a week at set times - has given me personalised advice by phone with a detailed follow up email about my personal situation with regards to the council’s assessment of my financial situation.  

    It is a lot to get your head around I know. I have also gone through the statutory guidance on the care act of the gov.uk website and printed off the sections relevant to my situation- this along with the care act tool box stuff I mentioned before helps me know what questions to ask when I can access small amounts of highly precious personally tailored free legal advice. 
      Brilliant advice, great read for me to compare notes.  Would advise every one to down load link and read.  Similar to what I have already started so will be joining that campaign to get better simple English responses.  
    @onebigvoice thanks for appreciating my attempt to share what I am in the process of learning about.  You mention you have started something similar to campaign for real care - I’d be interested to know more about what you are doing / hope to do if you are ok to answer that 
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 927 Pioneering


      Brilliant advice, great read for me to compare notes.  Would advise every one to down load link and read.  Similar to what I have already started so will be joining that campaign to get better simple English responses.  
    @onebigvoice thanks for appreciating my attempt to share what I am in the process of learning about.  You mention you have started something similar to campaign for real care - I’d be interested to know more about what you are doing / hope to do if you are ok to answer that 


      I have down loaded this link and the steps to get a fair assessment.
    https://www.campaignrealcare.org/

      I have also copied this from the charter which says it all.:
    Until this scandal is acknowledged and addressed, no amount of surface-level reform or extra funding will do anything other than continue to window-dress a broken system. Indeed, funding is currently being pumped by local authorities into strategic-level 'co-production' exercises, in order to maintain a façade of good practice.
      This is where we are but have left the interpretation up to the assessor?  as this is stated in the steps required.  Plain English documents were a document or information is requested and the claimant supplies the relevant information, should happen but does not, also stated when read.
      My A to Z documents cover Charters, Documents, Laws, tribunal references, and Acts for access to benefits.
      This link has many sections to it which I have down loaded and placed under the Campaign for real Care 2022.
      It will take a little time to cross reference with what I have as you can imagine but to be quite honest there is nothing I have read so far that is any different to what I am using and with your permission and in contacting the owners of the document would like to cross reference or quote this document in the next case?



  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 927 Pioneering

      I have down loaded this link and the steps to get a fair assessment.
    https://www.campaignrealcare.org/

      I have also copied this from the charter which says it all.:
    Until this scandal is acknowledged and addressed, no amount of surface-level reform or extra funding will do anything other than continue.

      I have also copied this:
    @onebigvoice thanks for appreciating my attempt to share what I am in the process of learning about.  You mention you have started something similar to campaign for real care - I’d be interested to know more about what you are doing / hope to do if you are ok to answer that.

      Over the last few days I have noticed more and more people are struggling to understand the system and how to even start the process of claiming any benefits not only PIP's.

      This to me is quite frustrating, and yesterday I was rang by PIP's to ask about the three cases that they have and have (in their eyes) given what they believe is correct, but all I asked for was the certificate of entitlement for future reference so that she could get a mobility car, and a copy of the working out and interception date if different to the information provided within the form filled out 15 months before?
      NO REPLY> 





  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 927 Pioneering

      @Camellia 
    I have down loaded this link and the steps to get a fair assessment.
    https://www.campaignrealcare.org/

      I have also copied this from the charter which says it all.:
    Until this scandal is acknowledged and addressed, no amount of surface-level reform or extra funding will do anything other than continue.

      I have also copied this:
    @onebigvoice thanks for appreciating my attempt to share what I am in the process of learning about.  You mention you have started something similar to campaign for real care - I’d be interested to know more about what you are doing / hope to do if you are ok to answer that.

      Over the last few days I have noticed more and more people are struggling to understand the system and how to even start the process of claiming any benefits not only PIP's.

      This to me is quite frustrating, and yesterday I was rang by PIP's to ask about the three cases that they have and have (in their eyes) given what they believe is correct, but all I asked for was the certificate of entitlement for future reference so that she could get a mobility car, and a copy of the working out and interception date if different to the information provided within the form filled out 15 months before?
      NO REPLY>  They went to check that they sent it, knowing fully well they had not, the link above gave an instant response, within one day?





  • Cher_Alumni
    Cher_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,714 Championing
    edited March 2023
    Hi @onebigvoice

    Just to let you know, I've deleted a few duplicates of your comments that got caught up in our spam filter. Also, it appears that your replies to other members have attached to quotes making it difficult to decipher which 'bit' is yours. To avoid this, you can just tag a member (@ symbol followed by no space and their username) without quoting them or ensure there is a break between their quote and your response.

    I hope that makes sense  :)
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 927 Pioneering
    Yes, and thank you again.
      I think what was happening that when commenting on a post OI could not see it and then quoted it again, with other information.
      The link Camellia gave was useful to me and have re-read this and applied this to the notes I have.
      I do believe every one should read the link as it gives information in plain English. 

  • Camellia
    Camellia Online Community Member Posts: 77 Contributor
    edited March 2023
    @onebigvoice

    I completely agree with your passion and enthusiasm concerning issues with regards to how the care act is applied in real life but am admittedly very confused, was expecting to see links to something of yours such as a website or blog - as was hoping to read it as am dealing with my own needs assessment issues at the moment.