Welfare benefits news, possible changes & constructive ‘discussion - an ongoing thread

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  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 903 Championing
    edited November 2023
    Until a few hours ago I was honestly starting to wonder if the disabled community’s biggest problem after the autumn statement was done and dusted by the afternoon was if it was possible that the worst thing going forward was somehow moving towards labour getting a large majority government

    (Kendall’s interviews this past week and rachel reeves reaction speech to the autumn statement were scary to read/listen to (and did I hear Hunt praising Reeves on backing him on the new benefits policy?)

    my worry is if my initial reaction was correct (and I was right to think worst case wasn’t presented and even prehaps mini steps in the right direction in some areas of the dwp treatment of the vulnerable) then the chance of labour making benefit/disability policy even worse than this Tory serving may have increased since yesterday

    surely labour can’t be a worse evil than the tories

    when will politicians start figuring out that compassion for another human is an asset and may gain a vote or 2 next GE

    (as I said I’m exhausted and head is overloaded)
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 903 Championing
    Yesterday I said that I was starting to have trouble seeing the difference between labour and the Tory party

    i am also alerted to many posts on the autumn statement threads suggesting they would be happy if the next GE was held in May 2024 - I think I got it right the first time when I said that wca reforms look nowhere near as bad as they could of been - that is especially so for existing esa support group/uc lcwra group claimants that as things the year 2024 is at worst the calm before the storm.

    what I’m trying to say is there is room for labour to scrap these Tory changes and quickly introduce something much worse that ropes in all means tested disability benefits claimants (I’m being selfish here but at least for 2024 it currently appears like it will be a ‘quiet’ year and my personal preference has switched from last week that sunak clinging on till jan 2025 is now most beneficial to me as an early gr labour win is an unknown and a gamble)

    (didn’t think I’d ever say that)


    the reason I’m probably more concerned about labour is that the tories are a very predictable evil but with shadow minister appointment choices over the past few years it has become unclear if labour will be an improvement or just build on the Tory nastiness?

    Liz Kendall has shown nothing that differs her to the likes of coffey or stride, shadow disabilities minister has been dead quiet for over 6 weeks 

    and the shadow chancellor, well you tell me:

    rachel reeves speech responding to the autumn statement -



    Jeremy hunt’s response to Reeves response above - 



    Not sure how reeves differs to Hunt either - no warmth to her either
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 903 Championing
    edited November 2023
    I know this sounds like I’m saying that as neither of the top 2 parties in power would be a good thing from a disabled point of view and we shouldn’t bother voting or registering to vote that is not what I’m suggesting at.

    Everyone on the scope forum whom haven’t registered to vote should do so without delay (and there are now more types of id cards recognised by polling booths - I’ll post links another day)

    In uk general elections you are voting for the mp (and by default the party may impact that choice)

    After this week I would recommend that every disabled person uses their vote to vote the mp candidate in your constituency that will serve and support you as a disabled citizen the most (if that happens to be your area tactical vote so much the better.


    im keeping an ear out on what the individual mps from labour and the smaller parties are saying in the House of Commons, the media and on social media in terms of being concerned about/standing up for the vulnerable & disabled  

    so far the SNP have probably been the most vocal party in the House of Commons in terms of concern for the disabled - if I lived in Scotland then they’d be looking like a viable vote in these early pre election days

    i think that Caroline Lucas and the Green Party may of been supportive of our community’s situation 

    I’m not overly sure of where the Lib Dem’s stand (I think they are supportive but I’m not sure if they are publicly so at this point.


    I will state that there are a few labour mps right now that are currently standing up for the disabled (which is a huge reason why you should vote based on the person, first & foremost, and party second) - the only sad thing is that is left leaning mps that are most likely to advocate (and starmers frying to stamp out the left wing of the party)

    I may keep a list on which labour mps speak out in support or shows compassion and post it nearer to election time
  • apple85
    apple85 Online Community Member Posts: 903 Championing
    John McDonnell’s commons speech from Thursday:








  • Kimi87
    Kimi87 Online Community Member Posts: 8,721 Championing
    edited November 2023
    What doesn't seem to have been mentioned in the Autumn statement was part 2 of the Tory plans. 
    Step 1: Make the WCA harder
    Step 2: Abolish the WCA and LCW/LCWRA and replace with UC Health Element (for those that get PIP). Work coaches for everyone else and maybe even those with UC HE too. 

    So as good as no more reassessments sounds, especially those with LCWRA under the current criteria, in the very unlikely event they get their own way with everything, it'll be a moot point anyway. 
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    That's no more reassessments after these though..

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    That's no more reassessments after these though..

    And a Claimant Commitment for all but special rules cases 


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    That's no more reassessments after these though..

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone with a process yet to be decided for exempting special rules cases 


  • Ralph
    Ralph Online Community Member Posts: 146 Empowering
    ‘only a minimum amount of data will be accessed and only in instances that show a potential risk of fraud and error.’

    Is this not the way it is at the moment?
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    What was the name?


  • Rumi
    Rumi Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,933 Empowering
    @Albus_Scope l heard that the dwp will be checking benefits claimants’ bank accounts on a monthly basis. Can they do that? Apparently they want to know what we use the money for.
  • Rosie_Scope
    Rosie_Scope Posts: 8,300 Scope Online Community Coordinator
    edited November 2023
    @Rumi, I know this sounds very worrying, but there's currently no confirmation if or when this will come into policy.

    If it does, as woodbine said above, it's more likely that it will focus on checks to see whether people are going over their saving limits, not checking what they are buying with their money. We'll keep everyone up to date if we get any more information :)
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,456 Championing
    I agree with biblioklept, with legacy benefits the agreement is in the actual claim itself. 

    For UC and New style ESA you actually have to agree to those commitments. You can’t expect to claim benefits without agreeing to do what is expected of you. 
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing


    apple, here's what Liz Kendall had to say in 2015 -

    Labour’s four leadership contenders show contrasting views on disability benefits

    By John Pring on 17th July 2015 Category: Politics

    The four candidates to be the next leader of the Labour party have revealed their thoughts about disability issues such as benefit sanctions, the “fit for work” test, and Labour’s record in government.

    Concerns among many disabled activists were raised when leadership contender Andy Burnham said in May that Labour had “become associated with giving people who don’t want to help themselves an easy ride”.

    One of his rivals, Yvette Cooper, suggested that Burnham had fallen into the Tory trap of “using language that stigmatises those who are not working”, including many disabled people.

    Another contender, Liz Kendall, then added to concerns by stating that “voters in my constituency do not feel people who are not working should get more than those in work”, and warning that the public did not trust Labour on welfare.

    Disability News Service (DNS) has been trying since early last month to secure answers to key questions on disability benefits from Kendall and Burnham, and more recently from Cooper and the fourth contender, Jeremy Corbyn.

    Cooper, who herself spent a period claiming incapacity benefit as a young woman, has told DNS that the use of stigmatising language “is offensive and hurtful to disabled people, and creates division in our society, exacerbating and serving to legitimise the vile threat of disability hate crime”.

    She said that a Labour government under her leadership would ensure that the Crown Prosecution Service and courts “treat these crimes with the seriousness they deserve”, while she would introduce a specific offence of disability hate crime.

    Asked if she would support further cuts to disability benefits, she said: “Disabled people have been hit hard by the impact of spending cuts. I will not support cuts to benefits that prevent them from living their lives with independence and dignity.”

    And she made it clear that she believed the planned cut to payments for new claimants in the work-related activity group of employment and support allowance (ESA) – announced last week by George Osborne in his budget – was “wrong”.

    She said she would work to reduce delays and errors in the benefits system, and “look at how we can bring down the cost of goods and services that are more expensive for disabled people”.

    Cooper said she would also introduce a new specialist work programme for disabled people, to replace the “dismal failure of the Work Programme”.

    She said she was “very concerned at the dramatic rise” in the use of benefit sanctions, including those imposed on disabled people.

    She said: “While it’s right that there should be conditions for benefits, and sanctions as a backstop for wilful noncompliance, it’s quite clear that the sanctions regime in Jobcentre Plus is running out of control.”

    She added: “As leader, I will always ensure that our benefits system operates fairly, proportionately and reliably, ensuring disabled people receive the benefits to which they’re entitled, and are treated with dignity and respect.”

    But she insisted that Labour had been right to introduce the much-criticised ESA in October 2008, to avoid people being “abandoned on incapacity benefit”.

    She said she would reform the work capability assessment, to “ensure it’s fair to disabled people”, “streamline and simplify” the process of applying for benefits, and reduce the need for “repeated and unnecessary face-to-face assessments”.

    Kendall’s answers were less clear, and less detailed.

    When asked if she shared Cooper’s concerns about the use of stigmatising language, she said: “No one should ever stigmatise people who have a disability. That’s against my values, against the values of the Labour party and against the values of a decent society.”  

    When asked what she meant when she said that people did not trust Labour on welfare, and called for a “fundamental rethink” in its approach, she said that social security was the “foundation of a decent society”, and added: “Under the Tories, the system is failing both to help people who can work and provide decent support for those who can’t.” 

    She said she would be concerned if there were any further cuts to disability benefits, and opposed those announced in last week’s budget.

    She said: “Spending on ESA is now double what was projected back in 2010. The only way you save money in the welfare system is by making the system work better for people. I’d oppose any changes that didn’t deliver that.”

    She said that setting targets for sanctions was “completely unacceptable”, and added: “I’d review the entire sanctions system to make sure it isn’t a disguised way to punish people for having mental or physical health problems. That’s not how social security should work.”

    Kendall said that the last Labour government “did a lot of good things” for disabled people, but “didn’t do enough to help people find work or help them contribute to their family and society in other ways”. 

    She said: “Now, with the cuts to social care and ever higher use of sanctions, the benefits bill is rising, but the system is failing those who want to work, by not giving them the support they need to get into work.  

    “At the same time, the system isn’t doing nearly enough for those who can’t work, or need care, or who care for others. That’s just wrong.”

    Corbyn implicitly criticised the language used publicly by Burnham and Kendall, although he declined to do so explicitly.

    He said: “The rise in disability hate crime over recent years has undoubtedly been driven by irresponsible ministers using terms like ‘scroungers’, ‘shirkers’ and ‘skivers’.

    “This vile, dehumanising rhetoric has no place in a serious debate about welfare and disability benefits.”

    He said he had “consistently voted and campaigned against cuts to disability benefits, and will continue to do so”, and had campaigned on the issue alongside user-led grassroots groups such as Disabled People Against Cuts and the WOW Petition, as well as the Unite community and PCS unions.

    He also supports the long-standing call for a cumulative impact assessment of the cuts to disabled people’s benefits and services.

    He was the most critical of the candidates on benefit sanctions, saying they should be completely scrapped.

    He said: “Sanctions destroy the relationship between the claimant and the jobcentre adviser, which is necessary to build trust and help people identify their support needs.

    “Our welfare state was established to help people, not to trip them up.

    “Claimants are best-placed to recognise what is in their interests, and advisers need to be able to support them and give them options, not threats.

    “Sanctions have left people in need without the support they are entitled to, in desperate poverty, and have driven some to suicide. Sanctions are barbaric and must be abolished.”

    Corbyn was also the most critical of the four candidates about the last Labour government, which he said had been wrong to introduce a work capability assessment run by Atos.

    He said: “Our welfare system should work with claimants to give them support tailored to their needs.

    “In opposition, Labour should have changed tack and should also have opposed the closure of the Independent Living Fund. Several of us tried to make ministers see sense on this.

    “We need to rebuild our welfare state as a public service there to help people in need, treating them with dignity, and respecting their autonomy.”

    Burnham (pictured), the last of the four contenders to respond to the questions, said: “I strongly support disability rights and object to any depiction of disabled people as ‘scroungers’. That kind of stigmatising language is wrong and should be challenged.

    “I have said that some people have had a perception that Labour was about helping people who could work to live a life on benefits instead.

    “I want to challenge that perception – but I also want to make sure that we do all we can to help those who can work into work.”

    And he said that cuts to disability benefits “should be a red line for our party”.

    He said: “That’s why I’ve come out against the cruel abolition of the Independent Living Fund. My basic principle is that we cannot justify cuts to income that cannot be replaced by work.”

    Burnham said he had “concerns” about the use of benefit sanctions.

    He added: “I’m not convinced that the sanctions regime operates fairly or consistently, and the government has ignored repeated calls for an independent review of the way in which they operate. 

    “There do not currently seem to be proper safeguards for vulnerable people, and some of the decisions made have been indefensible.”

    He said he was “proud” of the last Labour government’s record on disability rights, increasing support for disabled people “so that those who couldn’t work and their children were pulled out of poverty, but we also increased the employment rate for disabled people by improving the support available to those who could work.

    “However, in the last parliament, we didn’t do enough to defend disabled people from a range of damaging Tory policies, and under my leadership Labour will be a stronger voice for disabled people.”



  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    You are here: Home / Politics / Government bribed its way to victory on WRAG cut, says disabled peer
    Lord Low speaking in the debate

    Government bribed its way to victory on WRAG cut, says disabled peer

    By John Pring on 10th March 2016 Category: Politics

    A disabled peer has launched a furious attack on MPs, after he was forced to admit defeat in the battle to prevent the government cutting out-of-work disability benefits for tens of thousands of claimants by £1, 500 a year.

    The decision, which will mean a loss of about £30 a week for new employment and support allowance (ESA) claimants placed in the work-related activity group (WRAG) from April 2017, has angered disabled peers, disabled activists, and disability organisations.

    The government measure was described this week by campaigners and peers as “drastic and without justification”, “harsh”, “dreadful”, “punitive” and “counter-productive”.

    MPs had twice blocked attempts by peers to throw out or delay the cuts, but the Lords finally had to admit defeat this week because parliamentary convention means MPs have the final say on matters that have financial implications for the government.

    Lord [Colin] Low (pictured during the debate), who has led attempts in the Lords to defeat the WRAG measure, said: “The Commons have spoken decisively and we must bow to their wishes, but we do so under protest.

    “Do not let anyone kid you that this is democracy in action. There is more to democracy than just being elected.”

    He said the House of Lords was “much more democratic” than the Commons because it was more representative of the population, more accessible, more open and more responsive.

    He said: “Organisations representing the needs of poor and dispossessed people find it much easier to get their point across and have it taken on board in the House of Lords than in the House of Commons.”

    And he said that Tory whips – whose job it is to enforce the government’s wishes among its MPs – had been “working overtime” before the measure was voted on last week, and he accused them of “handing out bribes and blandishments like there was no tomorrow”.

    Lord Low said he and his colleagues in the Lords had listened to disabled people, while the House of Commons had “preferred to listen to the government”, which failed to provide “any convincing reason” for their decision to cut WRAG payments.

    He said the WRAG cut was “emblematic of the way in which this Conservative government have chosen to treat disabled people”. 

    He said: “The fact is that ministers are looking for large savings at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable.

    “That was not made clear in the general election campaign; then, the prime minister said that disabled people would be protected.

    “By this action, the government have betrayed the trust of disabled people and they should not be surprised if they forfeit it for the rest of their time in office.”

    His fellow disabled crossbench peer, Baroness [Jane] Campbell, told her fellow peers: “The minister is asking us to have faith again today, but I hope and pray that we do not look back on this day as the moment when we pushed some of the most severely disabled people in Britain over the edge.”

    She said she found it “very difficult when the niceties of parliamentary protocol trump the lives of disabled people”.

    Baroness Campbell said that words had failed her last week when she heard the arguments made by ministers in favour of the WRAG cut.

    She said: “In my view, our arguments were pretty indisputable, especially with regard to the absence of evidence that cutting severely disabled people’s employment and support allowance would incentivise them to work.” 

    A third disabled crossbencher, Baroness [Tanni] Grey-Thompson, said she was “deeply disappointed” at what had happened.

    She said: “I and others spent a great deal of time last week working through every possibility of tabling another amendment to send this dreadful and punitive part of the bill back to the other place.

    “Unfortunately, because of parliamentary procedure, that was not possible.”

    She added: “I apologise to the people affected by this bill that, at this point, we could not do any more.

    “This may be the end of the legislative process, but it is the start of the negative impact the bill will have on thousands of people’s lives.”

    Lord Freud, the welfare reform minister, paid tribute to the three disabled peers who he said had “argued so passionately against the changes that we are introducing”.

    He said their concerns would be “right at the forefront of our minds—certainly of my mind” as the government finalises its forthcoming white paper on employment support for disabled people.

    The bill has now cleared all of its parliamentary hurdles and only has to receive royal assent before it becomes law.

    After the debate, Disability Rights UK said in a blog that the cut was “drastic and without justification”, was “terrible news” for disabled people, and “will do nothing to incentivise employment – quite the opposite”, while the government was “profoundly wrong to make this harsh and counter-productive cut”.

    The charity added: “The risk that we are clearly facing is that from 2017, many disabled people will just be worse off – when already disabled people are so disproportionately affected by poverty.”


  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    Taxpayers ‘left to foot bill for DWP’s assessment failures’ as costs set to double

    By John Pring on 8th January 2016 Category: Benefits and Poverty

    Disabled people have been failed by the government’s inability to manage the assessments for disability benefits that are carried out by outsourcing giants Atos Maximus and Capita, according to the chair of an influential committee of MPs.

    Labour MP Meg Hillier, who chairs the Commons public accounts committee, spoke out after a damning report by the public spending watchdog, which found spending on assessments was set to double in just two years while the three companies were failing to meet the required standards.

    The assessments help determine eligibility for employment and support allowance (ESA) and personal independence payment (PIP), and also aim to support people on sick leave back into work as part of the new Fit for Work service.

    But the National Audit Office (NAO) said the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) had failed to achieve value for money from the health and disability assessments it had contracted out to Atos, Maximus and Capita.

    In 2014-15, DWP spent about £275 million on assessment contracts, but this is expected to more than double to £579 million by 2016-17.

    Between April 2015 and March 2018, DWP expects the three companies to carry out about seven million assessments, at an estimated cost of £1.6 billion.

    It also expects the contractors will increase the number of healthcare professionals they employ by more than 80 per cent, from 2,200 in May 2015 to 4,050 in November 2016.


    Woodbine, what has changed?



  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 5,564 Championing

    And a Claimant Commitment for everyone 

    You're talking about the basic agreement/conditionality always signed for then not another name