Had enough of PIP process

Sound

DLA was all about disability in my experience not only medical diagnosis. The main thing that changed when it moved to PIP was the difficulty, hoop jumping, and negating evidence from clinicians who actually work with the client. Also, most applications were declined. For every one positive response on here there are untold terrible stories. Depends how big or small your world is to know the extent of the problem. Mine is big. I’m not interested in the handful of positive experiences, I’m interested in fighting the system which without any doubt, disadvantages our most disabled. Many of whom cannot write here, hence why I am. Thank you Kelly-Marie for your contact. Anyone else know a lawyer and/or politician challenging the PIP business system? 

Sound

Could we please keep to the original request so that I can get help for the many people who are disadvantaged and discriminated by the PIP process. Lawyer and or politician recommendations please? 

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

It's assessing entitlement

Of course it is because the only ones that are automatically entitled are those that have 12 months or less left to live. No one else is automatically entitled. 

Sound

If I didn’t know any better I’d say that one or two on here are working for PIP 🤔

WhatThe

DWP advises charities of course 

poppy123456

Sound said:

Also, most applications were declined. For every one positive response on here there are untold terrible stories. 

The stats have actually increased in the past 6 months from about 45% of new claims receiving an award to 51%. It maybe just in the majority but none the less, it’s still the majority. 

You can see all those stats here up until April 2023. 

Latest figures for normal rules claims cleared in the quarter ending April 2023 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2023/personal-independence-payment-statistics-april-2013-to-april-2023

• 43% of all new claim clearances (excluding withdrawn) and 51% of those who were assessed received an award
• 72% of all DLA reassessment clearances (excluding withdrawn) and 78% of those who were assessed received an award

Maybe it’s time to point them in the direction of some expert advice. 

WhatThe

No one else is automatically entitled.

Sound is talking about clients who are already entitled to disability benefits

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

No one else is automatically entitled.

Sound is talking about clients who are already entitled to disability benefits

They are talking about clients who have been refused. 

There’s no automatic entitlement unless it’s through end of life, as I advised. 

chiarieds

Why anyone here should think even for a moment that some members here are working for PIP is beyond me! Everyone is entitled to claim PIP, but, as poppy correctly advises, only those who are thought to have 12 months or less to live are actually entitled, no-one else is.

I agree that the statistics speak for themselves, & that we're not speaking in generalities or just looking at our own personal experiences, but those of the many people who join Scope looking for benefits advice, including PIP. 

There are too many horror stories on social media, so it's better to help people where we possibly can to see the positive side of things, & how best to claim PIP, or where necessary, do a Mandatory Reconsideration or appeal. Some of the success stories can be read on here by those members who are kind enough to give us an update on their PIP process.

We are continuing to fight in our own way, & with positivity (no lawyers needed)!

poppy123456

Sound said:

If I didn’t know any better I’d say that one or two on here are working for PIP 🤔

Then you thought wrongly!! I’m not aware of any members here that work for them.

I most certainly don’t and never have, nor do I ever intend on working for them. I haven’t worked for 10+ years and claim benefits myself, including PIP. 

Infact, with my benefits knowledge I would say that’s rather an insult. Some people that work for DWP do not know their own regulations, even if it’s staring at them in the face. 

The amount of threads on here for UC and ESA with claimants that are being underpaid is very concerning! It’s thanks to forums like this that they are even aware that they aren’t claiming what they are entitled to. I’ve seen some serious underpayments in the tens of thousands since I’ve been a member here. 

Sound

you miss you miss the very point. Why should a client suffer the stress and indignity of jumping through hoops when they have provided more than sufficient evidence about their functional incapabilities. I’ve been doing this decades enough to compare what was a leg up system before and is now a stamp down system. An experienced nurse working for PIP confirmed that if they don’t meet their targets they are out. Targets being write your reports and tick your boxes in x amount of time, which she said was no time at all. Another former colleague working for PiP said a meeting was called every 5 cases that she had approved because her managers deemed her to be awarding too many. They both went back to their clinical jobs… thank goodness. 

Community_Scope

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poppy123456

Sound said:

you miss you miss the very point. Why should a client suffer the stress and indignity of jumping through hoops when they have provided more than sufficient evidence about their functional incapabilities. 

I don’t think anyone is missing the point apart from yourself. 

It’s all well and good sending medical evidence but sending multiple pieces of evidence all saying the same thing also isn’t helpful. A lot of medical evidence will tell them a diagnosis but this often isn’t in question. 

Sometimes you need to stop for a moment and think maybe it’s your help that isn’t helping them. Having some understanding of the descriptors always helps and I think it’s possible that you’re not understanding them at all. 

Sound

I’m not going to regurgitate what I’ve already said. Stop repeating the term medical evidence. I’m talking about functional ability and incapability and evidence IS what the clients say

chiarieds

Like Biblioklept, I'm also wondering what you do.....

And how have you helped your clients present their evidence?

I'm also of the opinion that they may be better helped by searching https://advicelocal.uk/  and finding a Welfare Rights Officer who will understand PIP assessments, Tribunals etc

WhatThe

Sound
(before this discussion gets paused!)

I would say a barrister is your best bet. I don't think any lawyers kept up with the reforms (nothing in it for them)

The Law Society and the Charity Commission are both in the pay of government

Sound

Biblioklept- assisting clients and friends and family to complete DLA and PIP forms. Here’s an example but I’m going to change things slightly for reasons of confidentiality. A client is in a psychiatric institution for 6years. Goes home to be cared for by spouse. Severe mental health illness. Unable to do anything but lay on the bed. All the evidence supplied by intelligent spouse, written quite clearly. Supported by clinicians and their actual long term observations. PIP response? Declined! Spend hours on the phone trying to get through to PIP. Handler unhelpful and abrupt. Appeal declined. Client couldn’t go to tribunal for obvious reasons. Ended up that we went to an MP who helped get PIP reinstated. Many hours wasted which could have been spent on actual care of the client. As if the spouse didn’t have enough stress!!

WhatThe

If (as some are saying) these forms are beyond the comprehension of GP's and health professionals like Sound then how on earth can a claimant (sick/disabled/incapacitated) win an award? 

WhatThe

Sometimes you need to stop for a moment and think maybe it’s your help that isn’t helping them.

Not nice or necessary

DianeW64

In my limited experience with PIP, and utilising the amazing benefit support groups, this one included.

I have to agree with the OP, the fact that a person needs to claim PIP and in general needs to obtain help during most stages in the process are a huge barrier for a lot of people, barriers exist that some people fall down on and not everyone is able or has people to help them fight to the level required.

The figures confirming its success at tribunal stage, speaks volumes about the failing process itself, as sadly not everyone is lucky enough to reach that point, and those that do so, have suffered the process and exasperated their health in doing so.

Some people fail to receive their award…..despite having completed the application correctly, noting all relevant information etc because of failings of the system.