The official 2024 budget discussion.
Comments
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I actually can't see how that's going to work. Those who are assessing are not going to have the qualifications or knowledge to decide what someone can or can't do, for every single condition (s) a person could have. Even a g.p won't know that, that's why you have specialized fields.
My understanding and I accept this is just my opinion so correct me someone if this wrong. You have those who are longterm sick and cannot work, that's what the esa support group is for, then you have those who are significantly disabled which is what DLA was for. It was for those with severe, significant impairments eventing day to day life beyond the ability to work.
I do wonder if since covid we've simply had a huge increase of claimants that weren't seen face to face. I guess it does make sense to send people for a WCA like they are doing for PIP. However removing the mobility part as society has people working from home isn't the answer. You need to attend the interview and interact with people, have a computer.
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whistles, you are correct that the health assessors are not medically qualified, nor are the decision-makers.
You have those who are longterm sick and cannot work, that's what the esa support group is for,
The Work-Related Activity Group (WRAG) was also for those who are long-term sick with limited capacity for work. Thousands were incorrectly and unlawfully found 'fit-for-work' or placed in the WRAG during the first national reassessment programme of 2011-2014.
That's where we've all gone wrong, misunderstanding these two groups and their qualifying criteria. Not by accident I should add!
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My theory is, the crux of the entire matter lies in the introduction of Integrated Care Services to monitor our health more closely and report to government under the disguise of closing the gaps health services received vs other individuals, and yes this will include some voluntary organisations such as telephone befriender service as well as the local council collecting yellow bags of bio-waste, as well as any 'social' workers, GPs, and other local staff, collecting data. The top-tier (yeah there is literal tiers) of the decision makers will be the government first, then the NHS, then everyone else, in that order.
I get checking for fraud, however, neither the Labour nor Tories are out for claiming back moneys, their number one priority was always cuts, cuts, cuts.
What it will come down to, is like it stated in the paper on the 2023-2024 study about benefits, WCA and all elements is this: Pensioners (or people who have supposedly had a long "working record") will get an extra money top-up, saved by cuts to people who came after them, the further and further disabled by a world left behind by said pensioners.
They are basically drawing a line in the sand to the onslaught of bigger numbers of all older disabled people coming after the baby-boomers onwards to limit the damage done to public finances and the NHS by an ever increasing aging population year after year ever since 1945.
So they have to decide what's the lesser of the evils, go after the rogue employers and thieving wealthy or have more justification for benefit cuts, and their statistical analysists probably gave the prediction that overpopulation outpaces wealth usurpation. I only agree with them on the fact that usurpation can be remedied at any time and quickly (especially as a means to an end) by legislation and executive powers, however overpopulation is unstoppable, so are diseases and disabilities, hence they demand more investigative powers to clarify the long-asked question by the experts: what is the definition of essential needs in benefits and to what extend can we establish a statutory right to the benefits of essentials in the charters of the DWP? In order to stop the constant battle in society of pro or contra benefits during this disabled population onslaught and to establish rules for cuts, this is what they came up with.
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This is the old system and it might have continued to work if out of work sickness benefit levels had kept up with the cost of living. As it stands, basic UC is not enough to survive on short term, people who can't find work quickly go into debt, get behind with their rent and it's creating a cycle of people having to take part time insecure work just to keep their heads above water. In 2017, the Tory government slashed the LCW benefit so that anyone short term (2 years or less) sick from work would only recieve this inadequate basic rate. So hundreds and thousands of people were faced with months or years of increasing debt with no way to increase their income.
I think it's this that has led to the increase in LCWRA awards, because only then can people have sufficient income to actually feed themselves and pay their rent. LCW rates have made people much sicker, hence then eligible for LCWRA under substantial risk rules, because being so poor & under constant threat of being sanctioned makes you ill.
If you have any chance of managing a disability of any kind, LCWRA on it's own is not enough, hence people have been forced to make PIP claims when in previous times it might not have occurred to people. For example when I was last in work unbeknownst to me I could have been claiming DLA but I didn't know it. It was only when I became to ill to work that I researched what extra help I could get.
If we had adequate short term sickness benefits which properly supported people until they were ready to return to work, the PIP bill wouldn't be as high imo.
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Yes 100% I was one of the people affected by that in 2017 as I was literally weeks off of getting the full rate, and had to survive off of that until 2020 when I was moved to the support group.
An inadequate NHS that only provides CBT and having to survive way below the poverty line on £70 a week as it was then, will give people mental health issues, and exasperate people (like me) and give them PTSD. If this gov think the answer is to force people to live in poverty/force them into work then it’ll only cost later down the line in care. When I was on LCW I literally did not have hot water, and had to go to the CAB in November as I couldn’t even put the heating on, the fact they’re even discussing taking away the LCWRA is despicable.4 -
Am I right in thinking that esa is lcwra that I've been on for some years so therefore won't need a wca. Only my Dr of many years knows my situation yet bringing in health so called professionals who don't know you is terrible. A friend had a breakdown after an experience with an atos person
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LCWRA for UC is the same as Support Group for ESA. LCW is Work related Activity Group. (WRAG)
If in the Support Group when you migrate across then you'll be entitled to the LCWRA element from the start of your claim. You won't need a fit note and won't need another WCA.
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I can't recall what was in place prior to esa, but, if my memory serves me correctly that wasn't designed to live on either. I can recall being told by someone in housing that the sick and unemployed stay in bed all day and eat less!! I think each new system has been about saving money and spending cuts.
I don't think the benefit system is designed for longterm use. It's always been below the mimimum of any living standards even before the cost of living crisis.
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I didn't read it as taking it away. I read it as making it harder to qualify for new claimants. The same as when they changed DLA to PIP, it meant thousands didn't qualify anymore due to the new point system. My benefit was in effect cut in half as I didn't know that the ESA premium was linked with it.
They are in the process of migrating people from ESA to UC, which is an indirect way of cutting the rest of the ESA premiums from those who still have it. It's hidden under the guise of the transitional protection. However that will be eroded when your UC with your LCWRA increases or you become eligible for something else. So in theory your benefits kinda get frozen until those already on UC LCWRA are on the same amount as you are. Saving yet more money.
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The government has been conflating DLA and PIP into conversations on ESA and UC, but neither have any relationship to whether or not you can work. I worked while claiming DLA, I work now while claiming PIP. I've never claimed UC or ESA.
The changes to the assessment process may well bring them closer together, but I guess we'll see. At present, they're unconnected to whether a person is able to work.This does raise the question whether the target will also be to move all DLA claimants (or not) onto PIP by the same deadline. DLA is another legacy benefit but unconnected to the WCA migration. I know there are a lot of people still on DLA, so if so that will be another long set of waiting lists to add to the existing ones they're creating. Maybe that will be in the white paper.
My transfer from DLA to PIP was also in 2017 and was not fun, but I think/hope the criteria are less unpleasant now than they were then. I had my last review in 2021 or 2022, and it was definitely less unfriendly than my original claim was.1 -
The Campaign for Disability Justice website claims to have had clarification from a Disability Minister regarding the Chancellor and what she meant by the word 'savings' in the Budget speech. I cannot vouch for the document. Just putting it out there for consideration.
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/inclusionbarnet/pages/29/attachments/original/1730374043/Campaign_response_to_Autumn_Budget_Statement_2024.pdf?1730374043
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It was Incapacity Benefit before ESA. I didn't claim that so have no experience and very little knowledge of it.
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The link doesn't work
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Try this link
Best wishes
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This
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyx7z4ynr5o
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Who is still on the old DLA system, those under 16?
I think it's safe to say whoever is in government wise will change things. I was DLA indefinitely until they decided to scrap it.
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So am I right to say labour are changing the wca for lcwra but it's not worth worrying yet as we don't know how?
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And if you already have it are they going to make us or wait till it's renewable
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Thank you for that @poppy123456
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They've not said anything yet on the white paper. Think they will early 2025?
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