Green Paper Discussion (from 24th March, 2025)
Comments
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I seen an mp I think she was made a brilliant speech about benefits and urged uk to do same fat chance when she was speaking I was thinking i wish I lived in Scotland might visit family in muirkirk Ayrshire beautiful Edinburgh very up and coming
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I feel psychologically battered to the ground with no fight left but I guess that is what they wanted.
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What sort of damage to their plans do you envisage?
I can see the optics being bad for them in the event of substantial Labour rebellion. However, imo, all they are invested in is having the plans enacted, irrespective of how it looks.
They know there is no second term for them. Being perceived by the corporate world as being able to make, and enact, tough decisions, is their aim.
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I see. Do MPs not have specific email addresses for their ministerial parliamentary groups? If so, that's a horrid oversight.
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You may want to look at Disabled People Against Cuts. They are highly effective disability activists, they were the ones who fought the last government to have their disability green paper declared unlawful, mainly due to the finding by the Office for Budget Responsibility, the Treasury watchdog that only 3% of us would actually get employed!
https://dpac.uk.net/
Hence why this government are trying to force this one through by an Act of Parliament, to minimise that sort of action against them. However, even the OBR have said that there isn't enough detail in proposals.
Also, Labour will make a big mistake in making the rest of the MP's vote in July when the OBR's own impact assessment is not likely to be completed until October.
They are making many mistakes, in fact, with the way they are totally misrepresentating our chances of being able to work between our disabilities, highly reluctant employers and a persistently great shortage of work coaches and with the indecent haste at which they are doing it all, before due process has been followed.
I know that the DPAC will be doing their level best for us but I would try not to be too pessimistic, if you can. 😊 Even though the government seem so determined to get these proposals through and that the whole thing seems inevitable, that it will go through in it's current form, remember that they are doing it without following the correct protocol.
It's because we are so terrified of this succeeding that it seems so likely to happen to us. The reality is there is plenty to play for yet.
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https://archive.is/20250401233138/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-welfare-reforms-incapacity-benefit-gqz6kt3lp
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I needed to read your post. Thank u. I'm feeling very pessimistic at the moment. I suppose like everyone else. All we can do is fight back the best we can. I'm of the mindset now 'that these proposals are going to go through. If some of them get watered down or don't happen I'll take it as a bonus.'
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Thank you for this link, I was wondering about the group behind the legal action, and it seems the new protest as well.
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Seen a charity I think was rowntree foundation, started talking the cuts down now, saying people with autism have nothing to worry about as usually mental health involves a high scoring descriptor as well as those with the most extreme needs for doing daily tasks. It read like they have given up or the government has got to them.
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Honestly I have bpd so many emotions but since 2023 as you say psychology battered everyday something different all done by design
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My daughter came over she was very upset she's gone to university worked hard to save for deposit bought own flat got good job and can't afford anything after bills it's becoming reality starmer following plans The Who convention
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The propaganda that autism is not a disease has played a cruel joke on autistics.
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What other effective ways can you recommend for people with disabilities to fight for their rights?
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…She mentioned the other day about taxing pensioners. They are not obligated to give you anything, when I claimed my pension, they said I hadn't paid any stamp since I left school, so I asked them who payed my stamp when I was in the air force.
?
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And ego driven imagine the pats on the back he will be getting
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You may want to look at Disabled People Against Cuts. They are highly effective disability activists, they were the ones who fought the last government to have their disability green paper declared unlawful, mainly due to the finding by the Office for Budget Responsibility, the Treasury watchdog that only 3% of us would actually get employed!
https://dpac.uk.net/
Hence why this government are trying to force this one through by an Act of Parliament, to minimise that sort of action against them. However, even the OBR have said that there isn't enough detail in proposals.
Also, Labour will make a big mistake in making the rest of the MP's vote in July when the OBR's own impact assessment is not likely to be completed until October.
They are making many mistakes, in fact, with the way they are totally misrepresentating our chances of being able to work between our disabilities, highly reluctant employers and a persistently great shortage of work coaches plus with the indecent haste at which they are doing it all, before due process has been followed.
I know that the DPAC will be doing their level best for us but I would try not to be too pessimistic, if you can. 😊 Even though the government seem so determined to get these proposals through and that the whole thing seems inevitable, that it will go through in it's current form, remember that they are doing it without following the correct protocol.
It's because we are so terrified of this succeeding that it seems so likely to happen to us. The reality is there is plenty to play for yet. 💪2 -
If reforms to Personal Independence Payment (PIP) are passed as a Money Bill, it limits the ability of the House of Lords to block or amend them. However, legal challenges in the courts are still possible under certain circumstances.
Judicial Review Possibilities
Even if a PIP reform is passed as a Money Bill, it could still be challenged in court if there are legal grounds, such as:
- Human Rights Violations – If the changes disproportionately affect disabled people and violate the Equality Act 2010 or Human Rights Act 1998 (e.g., discrimination under Article 14 of the ECHR).
- Breach of Public Sector Equality Duty (PSED) – Under the Equality Act 2010, the government must assess the impact of policy changes on disabled people. If this duty isn't met properly, the reforms could be challenged.
- Unlawful Process – If the government fails to follow the proper procedures (e.g., inadequate consultation or failing to justify changes properly), a judicial review could argue the reforms are procedurally unfair.
- Ultra Vires (Beyond Legal Power) – If the reforms exceed the government's legal powers or contradict existing legislation without proper repeal, they could be struck down.
Limits of a Legal Challenge
- Courts cannot overturn a Money Bill itself, but they can declare specific aspects of the policy unlawful if they breach legal duties.
- Parliamentary Sovereignty means courts cannot challenge laws just because they are unfair—only if they are legally defective.
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The UK government could try to pass PIP (Personal Independence Payment) reforms as a Money Bill, but it’s unlikely that all aspects of PIP reform would qualify.
What is a Money Bill?
A Money Bill is a type of legislation that can only cover government spending, taxation, or loans. It is fast-tracked through Parliament because the House of Lords cannot block or amend it—it can only delay it for up to a month.
Could PIP Reforms Be a Money Bill?
- If reforms purely change spending (e.g., benefit rates, eligibility for payments, or administration costs), they could be included in a Money Bill.
- However, if reforms change the structure of PIP (e.g., assessment processes, eligibility criteria, or definitions of disability), it likely wouldn't qualify.
What’s the Likely Route for PIP Reforms?
- If the government is making major structural changes, it would probably need a full Bill (not a Money Bill), meaning the House of Lords could debate and amend it.
- If they want to fast-track parts of the reform related to spending, they could split it into a Money Bill for budgetary aspects and a separate Bill for policy changes.
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Iv'e put some information about the money bill on here somewhere in this thread, it would be difficult for them to try it as the reforms are mainly about changing eligibility for pip and not the actual financial aspects of it, like making changes to payments to certain groups etc, which is not in their green paper. They could do a seperate one for a money bill and include stuff in that, but that would take time too!! I think it's unlikely to pass at the moment with what they are are wanting to do to pip, and anyway this stupid reform policy will be taken to court and either stopped or slowed down for months, probably even years.
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i think so too. I can’t see any part of the proposals being voted this summer
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