Green Paper Discussion (from 24th March, 2025)
Comments
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I like your thinking!! @Wibbles 😄
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@noonebelieves Thank you for taking the time to reply. If we say they remove LCWRA WCA and use the current PIP test for all future claims to determine disability benefits and they do not change or add the PIP test to include metal health then this will be illegal. On those terms (in my opinion) this reform will not be able to go ahead, this reform will not happen, and they can not succeed with it.
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@noonebelieves The point of them reducing the money for benefits would be a different situation altogether in my opinion but probably we can fight it.
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Someone said vouchers would have been better. I'm now thinking they were right about it.
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@Catherine21 I’m just a random disabled person like everyone else here, with a strong desire to oppose this consultation. And to be honest, I have no idea about the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) beyond the contact number and the address in France that’s listed on their website(available via google)
From what I understand, their process usually requires that all legal options within the UK are fully exhausted before a case can be brought before them. It also appears that strong legal representation is essential for pursuing cases at that level.That said, there is a contact form available on their website, which might be a helpful starting point if we are looking to get in touch.
Just another thought:
Has anyone contacted Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) , particularly the Equality Advisory Support Service (EASS)-They deal with discrimination and human rights issues.
See office locations here. They might be able to offer some signposting, I guess?
It’s truly worth knocking every door!!
Best wishes , Catherine
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For me personally, and after reading the Green Paper proposals, the crux of my argument is to evidentially prove the DWP and the Labour Government’s Reckless intent (to strike a legal tone)— that this was indeed a cost-cutting exercise carried out through deception, targeted to vulnerable and disabled people , including their families & children , potentially that could lead to serious and grievous consequences ,including death!
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@noonebelieves Sorry, I have not read the paper fully because I'm more focused on LCWRA part of the reform, does the green paper mention anything about those on old style disability benefits or carers etc what will happen to them or have they just ignored it
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There's always hope and if not we'll make our own hope. We have rights and they choose ignore it.
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You’re welcome @gamer1,
I hear you. I can truly empathise with you and everyone over here as I resonate deeply with many of your feelings. My children are even concerned about me, as I’m so determined to fight this at any cost. The problem is… my family worries that they could lose me before the battle is even fought!
I even hate to use the word “reforms” here, as it’s clear from day one that these proposals are rushed, “bogus,” (as said by Benefits and Work Organisation)and deceptive. We should fight this head-on. I stand in unity with the voices of millions, including yours. Not just with the WCA but with everything they’ve proposed….there is not a single benefit for someone who is vulnerable, disabled, and has no physical or mental ability to return to work.
What makes me so furious is that some of my physical disabilities, which are permanent, were caused by the long NHS waiting lists and the bureaucratic barriers within the healthcare system. If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t be in this position today. Now, my family and I survive because of the extra support I receive from PIP. Concurrently,Im also at a legal battle with DWP over a UC/LCWRA closure which is also taking a huge toll on my health.At whatever cost, I will fight tooth and nail to uphold my financial and human rights in this process.
Please don’t lose hope, even though this proposal feels crushing. We must oppose it in every way possible. Let’s stand strong together.
Best wishes.
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They are sneaky. They will make one assessment PIP (which will be a combination of PIP and WCA as it is now). Which will have us all thinking this isn't so bad. Then look at the timing of it. It will start around the time of the next GE. So they will think we forget all this and vote them back in.
They will also shortly I think bring in "try work and we won't reassess you for x amount of time (for LCWRA). Hoping people start trying things to avoid a reassessment and then they can claim "oh look how many people we got into work"
They aren't stupid they know exactly what they are doing!!
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Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, and I truly resonate with everything you’ve said.
Your post is so insightful. I don’t have a strong background knowledge in politics/economics/social media , and that’s one of the reasons I usually stay away from political debates. But what drives me to speak up now is simple - I love people, I love my family and my children. And I write all of this from a very vulnerable place.
I never imagined I’d be in a position where I’d have to fight just to protect what little security we have. No one -not me, my family, my children, or anyone else should ever have to face a ruling government proposal that threatens to throw our lives into chaos. Every benefit we receive has come after a proper assessment, jumping through so many hurdles . We haven’t taken anything that wasn’t rightfully awarded. And yet now they want to strip it all away. That’s not reform. That’s cruelty dressed up in policy.
I feel the same fury and heartbreak when I see how disabled people are being portrayed and treated by this government and the media.It’s deeply distressing to witness the way they demonise us, playing on divisive narratives that only serve to pit people against each other. They create an environment of fear and mistrust, especially when it comes to people with invisible disabilities, neurodivergence, or mental health struggles.
I have to admit, now,I try to steer clear of the news and media myself, as it has a way of impacting my health in ways I can’t afford. The constant stream of negativity and misinformation can be so overwhelming, and it only seems to make things worse for me . Unfortunately, no matter how much I try to disconnect, these algorithms in our e-gadgets always manage to bring it back to me, feeding the same harmful rhetoric. It’s worse than the media itself at times. The way the narratives are designed to trigger emotions, generate fear, and divide us makes it even harder to find peace.
I understand your frustrations around how the media fuels this hatred and division. I’ve also seen the outrageous comments, the outright lies about “freeloaders” and “benefit tourists”…..and it makes my blood boil. These views aren’t just misguided; they’re harmful. They ignore the reality of disability, whether physical or mental. It’s painful to see people who are suffering in silence being labelled in such a cruel and dismissive way. The way they portray us – especially those with invisible disabilities – as undeserving of support is heart-wrenching.
I completely agree that these proposals are a direct attack on us, and I’m just as determined to fight back. The way they’ve framed this consultation, and now these new criteria under the Green Paper, shows their true intention-it’s all about cost-cutting, not reform. They’re stripping away vital support without any real concern for the devastating impact it will have on disabled people’s lives. The PIP changes, the removal of the Work Capability Assessment, and now the stricter daily living criteria-they’re pushing this under the guise of reform but it feels more like a calculated effort to strip away rights and leave those who are already struggling without a leg to stand on.
Like you, I’ve had enough. I refuse to accept this as our fate. My family and I depend on the support we receive, and I will fight tooth and nail to protect that, not just for me, but for everyone who is vulnerable. I won’t allow this government to steal away the little hope we have left. We’ve been through too much already, and I’m standing with you, and with all who are ready to raise their voices in unity.
The government’s tactics are exactly what you’ve described with the media -they want us divided, scared, and silenced. But I believe in the power of people standing together, in defying the narrative they try to impose on us. We will not back down. We have the right to live with dignity, and we will keep fighting for that, no matter the cost.
Together,we’re stronger, and we will make sure our voices are heard. Let’s keep pushing back, not just for ourselves, but for the generations to come. We won’t let them define our worth or take away our rights.
I feel so exhausted after pouring it all out today. If there are any other points we need to pick out from the Green Paper so people can get their views across, I think that would really help move our discussion forward. Maybe we can title it: Debunking the Lies!🙄
Thanks for reading, Lou!
Best wishes, and let’s keep the fight going.🤝
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I agree the timing is extremely important for them.
I believe their intention to prioritise the (generally) time-limited conditions of high-risk pregnancy and cancer diagnoses, tells us this.
They intend to genuinely assist these groups to return to work. I base that on the fact, generally, these individuals would have returned to work, all being well for them.
These people will become poster children as Liebour use the stats generated by these groups to "prove" the success of their "Moral Mission".
Expect to see smiling new mothers and relieved-looking cancer survivors on posters for the Liebour campaign in 2029.
ETA: The almost automatic removal of those with mental health illnesses will also be useful to Liebour.
They will be hoping they can stave off the flood of those voters heading to Reform by waving the red-meat stats around how many scroungers/ chancers/ unworthy people they moved off disability benefits.
Particularly so if the right-wing media provide enough poverty-porn(*) to satisfy those who would be voting for Trump(=cruelty is the point!) if they were in America.
(*) Poverty-porn footage of people obviously unwell/ill-equipped to care for themselves adjacent footage of empty foodbanks.
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There's no doubt that Labour (or any Govt.) have to look at the costs of everything - what is so difficult is a) the length of the 'Pathways to Work Green Paper' (thinking of people with mental health problems or learning disabilities, dyslexia, etc. yet they purport to want to hear from disabled people), & b) that we can't respond directly to the parts that (mainly) disconcert us as all as disabled people.
Speaking also as a disabled person with a somewhat medical background; I'm a long-retired physio., I can see that there's merit in helping those able to work to do so (if the Govt. can). What I have difficulty with is a 'points' system for PIP to which the Govt. wish to add the extra conditionality that you would need 4 points in at least one activity to receive the daily living component. As has been mentioned (& from my background), I can see no way in which you can differentiate that such a claimant is 'more disabled' than another currently scoring 8 or more points over several activities/descriptors. This is not logical, nor based on any medical evidence, & PIP is about your functional ability to be able to reliably do an activity & not on any medical evidence/diagnosis anyway.
There's much mention of health conditions/disability, but nothing taking into account those with a long term/hereditary/progressive disorder as far as PIP goes, in whom little change in their functional ability will be seen, so altho this paper is obviously about 'work,' it seems like this Govt. is forgetting that many people who claim PIP do indeed work/have worked as long as they were able, they seem to feel that this proposed change to PIP will encourage more into work. How? They do ask how those that lose this proposed change to the daily living component may be helped - perhaps by not having to jump through this extra conditionality in the first place. If any financial support is given to such claimants, then how much would the Govt 'save?' Perhaps there will be a return to the 3 tier system of DLA; so much for progress & reform.
Simplifying things so there's just one assessment in theory sounds helpful, yet the extra difficulty in claiming PIP will have a knock on effect if the WCA is abolished. Sadly the Govt. is not consulting on the extra 4 points needed for the PIP daily living component, nor the fact they hope to abolish the WCA, & many with a health condition/disability will have to jump through the extra hoops with a PIP assessment instead. They're just hoping for answers to their ill-conceived thoughts.
The fact that there are now more reported cases of x disorder(s) has nothing to do with disabled people 'dis-engaging' in any way from work, just that more becomes known about different disorders over time; medical fact.
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Thanks for raising this @gamer1, I really value your insight.
I have to admit, I haven’t managed to scour the whole Green Paper yet .if I had, I think I’d be completely burnt out by now. Just from a quick glance, I couldn’t see anything substantial on carers, which is concerning. I remember seeing a few posts floating around with valid points about the potential impact on carers, and maybe it’s worth asking Scope admin if they can help pull those discussions together in one place.
In terms of your question about old-style disability benefits, I’ll be honest , I’m not too familiar, as I’ve only ever had experience with PIP and LCWRA (still pending decision). I really don’t want to spread any misinformation, but if you’re willing to dig into it more, it might make more sense in your hands than mine.
That said, along our previous discussions,I did spot on PIP that
Section 2 – The future of PIP, assessment processes and safeguarding
(from point 155 onwards)
focuses specifically on the proposed PIP changes. It’s heavy reading, but unfortunately, there’s no other way to tackle this Green Paper than to dig into it and get our comments in. I’m finding it really hard to keep track of where I’ve commented on this thread , and I’m wondering if I should start copying key points into a Word document to help pull them together into the consultation response.Might be a helpful idea for others too.if Scope Admin has any advice in that area, it would be very welcome😊
(Just a heads-up: this Green Paper takes so much emotional and mental energy to read…it’s like it was written to wear us down. Please pace yourself.)
We’re all navigating through this fog together, and I really appreciate your efforts. None of us should have to carry the burden alone.
Wishing you strength and solidarity always.
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No need to tire yourself out. Thanks for your help. Thank you.
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You're mixing up things and, in result, are confusing yourself. There's no such thing as "WCA for LCWRA". The WCA assesses the work capability of a claimant, and LCWRA is one of the outcomes of the WCA assessment.
They've said that they'll scrap the WCA in 2028, and after that, every claimant who's sick or disabled would be assessed via a new single assessment which will be based on the PIP assessment.
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Vote the Greens just for the sake of not voting Labour - that's what I did during the last GE.
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They want to replace the WCA with PIP to assess both people with physical and mental health issues, yet Liz Kendall herself said that "PIP was never set up to deal with mental health issues." This is clearly to fail people with mental health issues, as PIP descriptors mainly address physical issues.
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Thanks for your thoughtful reply . I completely hear what you’re saying, and I think we’re actually aligned in a lot of ways. You’re right ….they’re absolutely not stupid. None of this has been thrown together carelessly.
An 84-page, purposefully wordy document with 301 points isn’t written without precision - it’s deliberately layered and deceptive.
It’s been shaped not only from years of Tory policy erosion but also now with Labour signalling a continuation under financial desperation , despite their promises of change in improving lives for everyone, including vulnerable & disabled communities .
The problem for many of us isn’t with the idea of work itself - like you said, a lot of us (myself included) were working while receiving PIP. That money isn’t a luxury ….. it’s what helps keep us in work. It supports transport, therapies, equipment,training and even just basic energy levels to function through a working week. For those on flexible or part-time work, and on reasonable adjustments (temporary redeployment),it’s a lifeline as top up wages to pay off essential needs/bills . And now that’s being put at risk.
What really breaks my heart is knowing how many people -especially those on long-term sick leave(under recovery), or who will never be able to work again are staring down a future of being forced into a system with no safety net, no eligibility for PIP, no WCA(as it would’ve been abolished by then).It’s not a reform; it’s a trap almost like a sentence to indefinite/Temporary supervision under Job Centre work coaches under “right to try” guarantee (as they call it ) without any safety net of disability financial support. Again , we need to know how much cost has been cut here by these proposals as WCA will be abolished ,this person will Not be eligible for pip daily living 4 points so no UC health elements-pushing an ill person who has no financial safety net or the health to engage in work will only add to the already pressured nhs systems causing havoc not only in accessing timely supply but missing out - Can you see the damage here? Not only will the person suffer, but the NHS will also incur more costs to secure timely support.Yes , in the proposal I also saw their “sneakiness”(as you say) that they propose so many billion pounds in making MSK Services accessible and developing some programme(truly I cannot read the green paper anymore. It’s causing mental pain ).
All the senseless proposals clearly have a countermeasure for everything. We must not naively oppose them but instead have a strong awareness of everything they’ve put forward. Ultimately, their intent is clearly to cut costs …the entire Green Paper is cost-cutting in its finest form, almost a legal narrative crafted to defend themselves in a legal arena.
However deeply you look at it (if you have the energy to), there seems to be no other intention behind it. They sell it as though they’ve created a once-in-a-generation proposal to support disabled people into work… but I don’t buy it. Just because they keep chanting that they are ‘the party of and for working people,’ it doesn’t mean they can justify forcing all disabled people into work while cutting the only safety net people have and then making the only remaining benefit, PIP, even harder to qualify for.
To be honest, some of the proposed changes within the NHS are great and much-needed for preventing long-term , chronic and irreversible disabilities(As long as timely interventions are accessible). But their proposals to abolish the WCA and toughen eligibility criteria are incredibly cruel -because of the intent behind them. I still cannot believe our own government could cause such agony to its own vulnerable citizens — disabled people, their families, and children.
Unless I were Hitler ………… if I were a Prime Minister of UK (I wish !!) 🇬🇧or the reincarnation of Liz Kendall😵💫 proposing these plans, especially at a time when the cries of so many are being heard through different sources, including from within my own party ,I would have ordered the withdrawal of the proposal with immediate effect and committed to rewriting the proposals in collaboration with disability rights organisations and charities.
Leaving all that aside ,you make a sharp point about the timing. I feel like they’re really banking on public forgetfulness. Throw just enough “hopeful” language into the Green Paper (aka)-a single PIP assessment, encouragement to try work but we know how these things get twisted in practice. It’s about numbers(money), not people…
I appreciate you sharing your perspective….it really helps to hear from others who are also thinking critically about what’s being presented. Let’s keep this dialogue going and support each other through this.
Best Wishes Have a great day!2 -
I’ll be okay @gamer1. Just understandably overwhelmed. Thank you🙏🏽.
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