Green Paper Discussion (from 24th March, 2025)
Comments
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I agree and request SARS but no one will it's so frustrating we have ways even mps pertitions got 33 thousand signed but there's millions of us ok not everyone has phones but come on !!!
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Do you know best address to contact echr
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Hi @catherine21,
Thank you for your response.
It’s clear from your post that despite your struggles, you are doing everything possible to get your voice heard through various channels, including directly through the live consultation. I really applaud your efforts . well done!!👏👏
I understand that the responses you or I may or may not have received might feel disheartening right now, but they are proof of the clear resistance from vulnerable and disabled people. One response might feel like a drop in the ocean of millions, but we may not see the full picture. I’m sure there are many others responding to these proposals already. All we can do is what we’re capable of -responding and encouraging others to do the same and
You’ve done incredibly well & empowered others to do so, Catherine.
Please don’t be disheartened.1 -
I agree with you we must all fight this as hard as we can however 16 million disabled people but only 3.2million who claim PIP or have been deemed disabled enough to get PIP, there is a crossover between PIP claimants and other benefits such as LCWRA and ESA so maybe a total of 4.5 million who claim benefits for their disability.
Some fall into the Attendance Allowance group and others simply don't claim anything or have claimed and been denied and some have disabilities which don't affect their lives to the extent of them needing to claim.
The newspapers love to say there are 16 million disabed without ever mentioning that only 1 quarter claim benefits, they make it seem as if all 16 million get benefits and saying that causes outrage among taxpayers who then imagine anybody who just feels a bit unwell can claim a benefit. It is classic manipulation tactics by the media and egged on by this horrible government to demonise and dehumanise disabled people.
I read a comment in a newspaper the other day about how this person was glad the government were doing this and then he said it might stop the freeloaders on the boats coming over. He actually thinks this move will stop illegal migration and was really happy about it and I have seen similar comments on other media such as YouTube. We are having to fight these sort of viewpoints. The media has caused much of this mindset and they will keep on doing it, with their belief of benefit tourism and the need to tighten up everything to make it as unattractive a proposition to come here, it is what the right wingers think will solve all the issues.
There is an insidious hatred to what they deem scroungers and if you have an invisible disability you get zero sympathy from these type of people you would literally need to be missing limbs or have brain injuries before they would consider you disabled enough to need help. The hatred is real and it is what scares me. We are becoming a society which doesn't feel that different from early 19.30's Germany with the demonisation of groups of people including their campaign against what they termed " useless eaters " it is a very scary situation for us all to go through and the media seem hellbent on causing division and outrage.
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Hi again @Catherine21,
I respect everyone’s choice to follow whatever they wish, including news sources. While I am still paying attention to what’s happening widely through the media, I am choosing to stay clear of speculative news that goes against my core values and drive .
I firmly stand by the fact that there is so much merit in the fight back from the vulnerable and disabled community against these baseless proposals. I trust that we have the power to challenge these legal norms, and in the best-case scenario, even change the laws. I will block out any news that steers me away from these values, especially under the current circumstances. What others choose to do is, of course, up to them. I hold no biases, although I do find myself sometimes falling victim to algorithmic assumptions about my interests, which, honestly, is not something I choose.
There is so much merit in the voices we’ve all shared in this thread, including yours and mine, shaped by our own unique experiences. It is truly compelling, and it strengthens our collective resolve to push forward.
Best wishes1 -
Agree.
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I’ve written to local MP (Liberal)
Andy McDonald MP to do with Spinal injuries as advised by benefits and work website.
Signed 4 different petitions
Filled in the consultation
Like everyone else I’m very pessimistic but a little bit of me hopes there is some semblance of humanity in the terrible trio of Starmer, Reeves and Kendall. Just trying to live in the now, can feel myself slipping into a dark place though.1 -
Local elections just around the corner ....
The voting will be very telling with all these Labour policies
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I have no one to vote for , don't trust any of them .
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The point system is out dated. What I think is needed is a fair caring assessment that understands each person needs and support along with medical evidence. I think about this all the time and everyday. What will I do and how I will cope. It's just a feeling that when time comes things will not be good outcome
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I've always thought any new reform should be approved by an independent disability board that listens to people before becoming law. We don't have that in a modern, democratic country. We need to stand up for our rights because everyone else does. We don't have no one to help us and they take our money. They all have gang up on us to bully us they know we won't do nothing. Why should we let them get away with it.
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Groundhog day!
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Hi @gamer1,
Your points absolutely have merit, and I completely understand where your confusion is coming from….I’m equally puzzled and, truthfully, none the wiser the more I try to untangle these proposals-301 points of nonsense to be precise .
That said, I’ve tried to read through the full long-form version of the Green Paper to make better sense of it though I must admit, like you and many others here, I find it completely overwhelming and exhausting. Still, I persist because I believe it’s important to challenge the rhetoric and share what I’ve understood with others in solidarity.
Coming to your very valid and important questions:
In relation to the WCA, they do state explicitly in point 155(see link above):
“In future, under proposals set out in this Green Paper, the WCA will be scrapped”
So, to your question : “There clearly is going to be some sort of WCA?” based on what’s written, they are not proposing any form of WCA to replace it. In fact, the intent (as per their own wording) is to remove the WCA entirely.
They do expand on this in point 159, which says:
“Whilst the WCA is still in place, we will restart reassessments as they play an important role in taking account of how changes in health conditions and disabilities affect people over time. This includes where there is a deterioration in someone’s health condition but also any improvements, which may mean they would benefit from more active engagement and support to return to work.”
So for now, the WCA still exists and reassessments will continue until any proposed changes are legislated and implemented. But moving forward, under this proposal, it seems clear that the WCA would be phased out.
In regards to your question “There clearly is going to be some sort of WCA because they’ve added a 4 point descriptor to daily living, so PIP is still going to be used in some way. I was thinking abolishing the WCA meant the WCA for LCWRA.”
From their proposal, there will be no WCA or LCWRA, as both are to be abolished.As per the proposed plan, people who are on UC and meet the 4-point eligibility on the PIP assessment will determine access to the new UC health element.
Under the section “Reducing the initial assessment requirement in PIP for certain groups with very severe conditions” They go further in points 166 and 167 to outline how they propose reducing reassessments for people with severe disabilities claiming PIP. But as also alluded to in point 159, the entire process is still undefined, and it’s not possible (or)responsible to speculate on implementation at this time.
However, as someone from a health professional background (as I mentioned in my first post), even within clinical practice, the terms severe and complex have always been highly debated and subjective and follows a structured ,reliable and validated medical assessment and reasoning process . For the DWP to base a core element of their proposals on such vague, undefined terms without any evidence-based underpinning is concerning. It reflects a pattern: their rhetorical emphasis is shifting increasingly toward work-related consultations, while side-lining or outright ending public consultation on the abolition of key benefits for vulnerable and disabled people … with the only intention of cutting costs to straighten their budget.
Again in point 155, they state:
“PIP assessment becoming the single assessment to receive both financial support in PIP and any extra financial support related to health and disability through UC”
This indicates a shift to PIP being used as a single gateway for both PIP and Universal Credit health-related elements, effectively removing the dual-assessment system (WCA and PIP).
Then in point 156, they say:
“The PIP assessment needs modernising”
Which is a clear hint that the existing PIP framework will also undergo change,though they’ve not clarified exactly how.
Regarding your question:
“They are planning to merge both and call it the health element”
There doesn’t appear to be a merge of PIP and LCWRA in the traditional sense. What’s happening is that PIP will replace WCA as the qualifying route for receiving the health element of Universal Credit. But they’re not creating a new combined assessment that incorporates both current PIP and LCWRA descriptors.
This brings us to your final and most crucial question:
“If you are saying they will remove the WCA completely for LCWRA and PIP, then how will they determine who needs benefits and who doesn’t?”
This is exactly where the concern lies - they haven’t clearly explained what the new system will look like. They’ve given vague suggestions about modernising assessments and “tailored support,” but nothing concrete about safeguarding people with fluctuating conditions, mental health difficulties, or complex needs.
As I’ve stated in several of my posts, this feels like a deliberately confusing and deceptive tactic , inviting us to respond to a consultation under the guise of reform, when in reality, it’s a dismantling of key support structures. I see no clear benefit to myself, my family, or the wider disabled and vulnerable community.
I’ve shared links and direct quotes from the Green Paper itself along with some of the core arguments I’ve been raising, so that others can reflect and align their personal experiences and challenges with what’s being proposed. I really believe we can use these valueless proposals to our strength in challenging them through our responses and solidarity.
For me, every email or response I write ends with this simple truth:There is not a single benefit to us as disabled people in these proposals.They have been written with one aim ….only to cut rightfully entitled support from vulnerable people. That is, and will remain, my central argument.(Apologies for the alignment issues! It’s been very hard drafting this response due to my limited IT knowledge and hand issues)
Warm wishes,5 -
It’s not passed or been put into law yet.
If your next assessment is before November 2026 — there will be no change to the how it is now.
If your next assessment is in November 2026 or after — the descriptors will stay the same, but you will need at least 4 points in at least one daily living activity to qualify for the daily living component (plus enough points to make up the rest.)
I hope that makes sense 😅
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I like your thinking!! @Wibbles 😄
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@noonebelieves Thank you for taking the time to reply. If we say they remove LCWRA WCA and use the current PIP test for all future claims to determine disability benefits and they do not change or add the PIP test to include metal health then this will be illegal. On those terms (in my opinion) this reform will not be able to go ahead, this reform will not happen, and they can not succeed with it.
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@noonebelieves The point of them reducing the money for benefits would be a different situation altogether in my opinion but probably we can fight it.
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Someone said vouchers would have been better. I'm now thinking they were right about it.
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@Catherine21 I’m just a random disabled person like everyone else here, with a strong desire to oppose this consultation. And to be honest, I have no idea about the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) beyond the contact number and the address in France that’s listed on their website(available via google)
From what I understand, their process usually requires that all legal options within the UK are fully exhausted before a case can be brought before them. It also appears that strong legal representation is essential for pursuing cases at that level.That said, there is a contact form available on their website, which might be a helpful starting point if we are looking to get in touch.
Just another thought:
Has anyone contacted Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) , particularly the Equality Advisory Support Service (EASS)-They deal with discrimination and human rights issues.
See office locations here. They might be able to offer some signposting, I guess?
It’s truly worth knocking every door!!
Best wishes , Catherine
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For me personally, and after reading the Green Paper proposals, the crux of my argument is to evidentially prove the DWP and the Labour Government’s Reckless intent (to strike a legal tone)— that this was indeed a cost-cutting exercise carried out through deception, targeted to vulnerable and disabled people , including their families & children , potentially that could lead to serious and grievous consequences ,including death!
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