Scope's reply to the governments planned concessions to the green paper.
Comments
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well if they just accepted the u turn that new claimants only would be affected then we wouldn't be back to square 1. Benefits rules change and I wasn't able to claim old style esa but had to claim UC and the health element , but now the bill has been passed and we are tortured again with the anxiety of not knowing , maybe to try and kill a few more of us off .
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I think they still have a blank cheque to do what they want after Timms review on assessments, activities and descriptors. But the bill isn’t final yet. MP’s are seemingly demanding more detail on the review before next weeks third reading and vote.
Still hope the speaker won’t let this sail through as a money bill next week, too. If he doesn’t designate it a money bill, the Lords can put a ton of scrutiny on every line in the bill if they want, and effectively force amendments.
So July 9th next week is when the third reading happens, short debate and then vote.2 -
we were okay until the MP's wanted more so now we are punished , they passed it and its what they wanted . Simms will review it and then we will all need to get four points , just as they wanted .
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Yes seemed to go ok, nice assessor, made me at ease, couldn't understand a few questions even though simple questions.
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Sorry, but I don't think we were okay at all. Nothing was secure or clear, it was a mess and still is. None of it is reform, it's just cuts and spite. I think they were always going to punish us.
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MP’s are demanding more clarity on the review before next week’s third reading and vote (July 9th). I’m hopeful they will force the government to limit the scope with another concession.
4 points is just a technicality anyway. They could always make it twice as hard to get 2 points in the descriptors, and thus in real terms it’s 4 points for everyone.2 -
Did anyone here listen to their ramblings ? Was ME mentioned regarding the Timms report ?
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I don't think anyone knows what has passed and what has not...
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Thanks I'll try to remember that when happens. I know my rent price but didn't keep my service charge letter..I'll login to my northern counties account but they often good wi that stuff.
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So what does this mean for us who are already on pip. And for us who yet to be moved to UC .Also when we get reassessed do we have to abide by the 4 point rule
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I think regardless of how any of this turns out, we can only be sure of one thing, that they're going to make it a lot harder for all of us, current or future.
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I don’t want to sound doom and gloom but who would you vote in the next general election? Reform? Conservatives? Really are the two who would stand any chance and both would be worse than labour unfortunately.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.1
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The four points have been removed from the bill , so I understand , Timms will review it in November 2026, that is what I understand .
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This Timms bill they were referring to what is it?
Also what about UC
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The user and all related content has been deleted.2
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Hi @secretsquirrel1 - yes, I watched part of it. One of the MPs said one of his constituents had ME, but he didn't mention anything about 'serious conditions,' he was just giving an example as to one of his constituents.
With 'serious conditions' the Gov't propose using those defined in the WCA handbook for assessors. This is not condition specific, altho examples are given as to who might qualify or not.
You can see the severe conditions criteria here if you scroll right down to Appendix 8 on p218:
You'll need to download the file first to access it.
I'll try to show it. You must satisfy one of the LCWRA descriptors, and
- all four of the following criteria must also be met:
Criterion
Description
Examples of conditions that might meet the criteria
Examples of conditions that might not meet the criteria
The level of function would always meet LCWRA.
The level of function would always meet LCWRA criteria
Motor Neurone Disease (MND), severe and progressive forms of Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s All dementias, All chromosomal conditions, Huntington’s severe irreversible cardiorespiratory failure, severe acquired brain injury … this list is not exhaustive.
Conditions which might be severe at times, but recovery offunction might be present for substantial periods, such as recently diagnosed relapsing non-progressive forms of Multiple Sclerosis or some people with less severe mental health conditions with periods of reasonable function.
Lifelong condition, once diagnosed
The condition will always be present.
Some lifelong conditions are present from birth, but others willdevelop or be acquired later in life.
Conditions which might be cured by transplant/ surgery/treatments or conditions which might resolve. This should be based on currently available treatment on the NHS and not on the prospect of scientists discovering a cure in the future.
No realistic prospect of recovery of function
Advice on this should be based on currently available treatment and not on the prospect of scientists discovering a cure in the future.
As per criterion 1.
A person within the first 12 months following a significant stroke who may recover function during rehabilitation, so whilst the condition is lifelong, function might improve.
Unambiguous condition
They have been through relevant clinical investigation and a recognised medical diagnosis has been made.
Non-specific symptoms not formally diagnosed or still undergoing investigation.
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Thank you 🙏. I just received my pip review form so I gave that to sort out now . My only recent treatment was physio but that was a bit of a weird situation and I don’t think I even had a letter of discharge and my GP didn’t get one either .
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MadMilan, please do not cite me out of context. If you want to quote me, you are welcome to cite my post in full - but don't misrepresent me. Singling me out in bold is not very polite.
My comments were meant to dissuade people already upset from giving too much of their energy getting mad at the Telegraph's every inaccuracy. This is a long way from accepting or condoning the nonsense they print. If you had read my posts on this site you'd know where I stand on that subject.
At the end of the day, the wellbeing of people here is more important to me than scoring points off a Tory rag. Sometimes we have to pick our battles, and right now that's not the right one to pick.
Going back on topic. I don't think any of us know what has actually happened yet tonight. The next week will be pivotal, and so will the form of the review. It was interesting that most if not all of the statements about things changes seem to have come from Timms.
I still think Kendall has to go, but the govt have not done any of this logically. Imagine how much quieter this process would have been if they had just announced the review in March, not the green paper or the bill, and then formed a bill at the end of it and made changes then?Either way, the govt would be very very misguided to keep trying to hoodwink and manipulate their backbenchers around to get the same conditions in under different wording. But I would not rule it out. If Timms' review was to be moved forward, what of the consultation with disabled people? That will take time.
On voting - I voted Lib last time, they voted against the bill and so I would probably do so again. Unfortunately no realistic Green candidates in my area. Tory incumbent though. Looks like he either abstained or didn't show up at all. Could be either tbh.
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I like your posts and agree. There will be something that can be manipulated so they get what they want in the future. I definitely don't believe existing claimants are protected. Well, may be up to your next review. I know a young man that has just lost his PIP (Enhanced both elements) and a parent the Carers element this week. Regardless of what is voted through, the zero points or reduced points that has gone on for years will continue.
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