Pip review

Tardis

No, because the evidence needed is related to function, not diagnosis.  Physio and OT reports would be invaluable for some, just as letters from CPNs, social workers, SENCOs etc can be useful if they give an indication of functional difficulties in line with the PIP activities.  A similar letter from a partner/carer is just another piece of evidence.  Why would you bother to lie and write the letter yourself when you already had the opportunity to put your own story down on the PIP2 form?   

Yadnad

Tardis said:

No, because the evidence needed is related to function, not diagnosis.  Physio and OT reports would be invaluable for some, just as letters from CPNs, social workers, SENCOs etc can be useful if they give an indication of functional difficulties in line with the PIP activities.  A similar letter from a partner/carer is just another piece of evidence.  Why would you bother to lie and write the letter yourself when you already had the opportunity to put your own story down on the PIP2 form?   

Yes it is just another piece of evidence. What I was questioning was the statement that it would carry more weight than a report from a GP or other medical body.

Hey, there are some that would lie, in fact they would see it as just the normal way that things work in life. I have come across thousands of such individuals during my time whilst working for the government.
Why? because of the above statement that such a letter carries more weight to convince the case manager to award a benefit.

PIP2? It is accepted that the majority of these forms are not completed correctly. To suggest that most people understand what is required of that form is wrong. Many just tick boxes, some, probably most, fill it with irrelevant information. The better completed ones are completed by those that understand what is required and how the system works. many have taken independent advice before putting pen to paper. Many don't bother asking for help, they simply can't be bothered.

To be honest for the three PIP review forms that I completed none was because of help or advice offered. Yes I completed all three with little or irrelevant information and I'm fairly intelligent.
In fact in the past 5 years of my PIP experience I have had to muddle through everything knowing absolutely little of PIP and treating PIP as if it was DLA.

It's generally at the point when they get the assessor's report and decision notice that they start to think that they have to do something. Some will go running to the CAB or the likes, others will muddle through thinking how/what can they do to get the award they think they should have. Some will again send in irrelevant evidence for the MR. It gets serious when the MR comes back - no change. Frustration and anger sets in to the point that some will do anything at this stage.

Hearing that a letter from a friend/relative/partner weighs more than medical reports they set about having such a letter drafted. It is at that point that desperation sets in and lies start to come to the front for some claimants who probably see it as no other alternative.

sarah50

I thought the face to face assessments were supposed to be independent assessments. What a load of phooey! Non of the suggested pieces of suggested evidence would stand up in a court as more than merely circumstantial or opinion. My GP would have less reason to lie to dwp than a partner so in that sense a GPs report might be seen as more important also a GP has years of training etc. But I hardly visit the GP I don't have contact with lots of different medical specialities. The only person who sees and knows how ii am affected everyday is my husband.

tru88le

In reality fortunately the tribunal judges acknowledge that the person claiiming pip has only 'circumstantial' evidence to provide.
What else can you say other than how things are?
I suppose its a question of is what the claimant says backed up by whatever health professionals are given to contact.
Its wrong to assume people are inherently lying without such back up but that is how it is anything you say must have some substance elsewhere to back it up.
Some that is, not all of it.
When you give a reason to a question they either believe it or dont. 
In my case the judge deemed the 'bald facts' acceptable and understood that facts are all we can give but we cant always prove them evidentially.
For example someone being unsafe to cook hav i ng previously caused a minor fire is admissable without a fire brigade statement of fact or images of the damage which could be from any fire etc.
Give us a break everything else in the world where people make a written statement is just as prone to being inaccurate as a pip claim. Every form has an element of trust on the applicant usually with a threat of prosecution if fraudulant.

tru88le

poppy123456 said:

Yadnad's valuable advice... not being nasty here but this persons PIP claim was refused and the information he gave you was just stats from the internet...

He does say he got tghe facts from an online source.
Sorry for stirring haha

Waylay

@tru88le Congrats!!

@sarah50 Please do go to tribunal. 71% of tribunal appeals are won by the claimant. I won mine 2 weeks ago.

@Yadnad GP's often can't speak to how conditions affect the patient's function. Physios more so, OT's probably more. Psychiatrists? No idea. Social worker? Probably knows a lot. Counselors? Mine wrote a really great letter for me. Didn't matter tho, as the assessor didn't look at any of it. Neither did the DMs. I had written statements from a friend I've known for 9 years and from my partner (a rather ranty one, as he was at the assessment and then read the report - 11 months later and he's still fuming ). However, both of them related how I function on good days and bad days, how my function has changed over time, etc. The tribunal clearly read them closely, and asked both of them a couple of questions (I had a posse with me at tribunal).

Yadnad

sarah50 said:

I thought the face to face assessments were supposed to be independent assessments. What a load of phooey! Non of the suggested pieces of suggested evidence would stand up in a court as more than merely circumstantial or opinion. My GP would have less reason to lie to dwp than a partner so in that sense a GPs report might be seen as more important also a GP has years of training etc. But I hardly visit the GP I don't have contact with lots of different medical specialities. The only person who sees and knows how ii am affected everyday is my husband.

.........as do my grown up children and of course my wife who has to look after me.

I have never considered for a moment that letters from all three would be that important so as to trump medical reports etc.

Mind you I suppose if I asked them nicely they would all write a damning report each pointing out that I am one step away from the cemetery!

Tardis

Their letters would not trump medical reports.  And being one step away from the graveyard isn't technically a PIP activity.  The evidence you need is about how you function in respect of the various PIP activities.  Whoever supplies it.  If your wife wrote a letter which just said you were falling apart and one step from heading downstairs, it would be no more useful than one from the GP who simply listed your diagnoses and the date (s)he last saw you.

Yadnad

Tardis said:

Their letters would not trump medical reports.  And being one step away from the graveyard isn't technically a PIP activity.  The evidence you need is about how you function in respect of the various PIP activities.  Whoever supplies it.  If your wife wrote a letter which just said you were falling apart and one step from heading downstairs, it would be no more useful than one from the GP who simply listed your diagnoses and the date (s)he last saw you.

Yes of course they could write about what the impact was.
But you do have to question who, your GP or wife is more likely to tell the truth in a letter.

And as for what was said earlier that such a letter carried more weight than a report from the GP is still in my opinion wrong.

Personally I would never put my family in a position that they felt pressured to produce such a report for me. Obviously they would tell the truth but behind that they would be thinking 'what does dad want and what would help him get an award?'

Tardis

No, a recent GP's letter which described your functional limitations well would be worth sending.  The more usual variety, which just lists diagnoses would not be as useful as a letter from a carer who understands your needs and limitations well and can put that across in a letter.  Do your family provide regular care for you (as regards PIP activities)?  If so, they would be able to describe that.  If they don't, then you are probably correct; their letters are not likely to be particularly relevant.

Yadnad

I don't have any recent GP letter - all of my evidence goes back to 2011 & 2012 which the DWP say is more than two years old and now not relevant,

No one other than my wife provides any form of care, I try to be as independent as I can.

As for my issues and impact they have not improved since the first assessment in 2013 when the MR changed the award from 0 points to enhanced care & mobility. They did this again in 2015 - 0 points to enhanced for both at MR stage. The evidence I mentioned above was used for both. 
The MR in 2018 did not change from 0 points. as the evidence is too old.

So as you say letters would be of no use as no one provides any serious level of care for me.

debbiedo49

My g p provided a letter for me for thirty pounds.

topshoes

i was told up my drs they do not do letters , maybe what part of uk you live

Tardis

Well, the date of the evidence matters if it is related to a condition which could change.  Your wife could write a letter, but it would need to be in her own words to be taken seriously.

Have you spoken to anyone yet about appealing that PIP refusal?  You keep going over it on here, you must be dwelling on it a lot of the time.  You say you have decided to let it go, but your postings on here say otherwise. 

The other thing that worries me, is why you don't have any recent evidence.  Surely you should be receiving ongoing medical care of some sort with all your problems?

This was to Yadnad!

Yadnad

debbiedo49 said:

My g p provided a letter for me for thirty pounds.

Mine would, but according to the poster earlier who said that a GP report is useless when compared to letter from a family member. Besides which I would have to go in and say to him
 'do you remember the 3 page report you did in 2012 outlining all of my difficulties, why they were caused and how I am coping with them and referring to all of the Social Services/hospital assessments/psychiatrist reports as well as the two days of tests that I had at the memory clinic that resulted in the 7 page report of their findings - well do you think that you could retype it to make it a more up to date one?'

To be honest I haven't got the guts to ask that of him - the guy is already on his knees with his workload.

And none of this would change the 3 year awards that I kept getting - and the thought of having to go to the GP every 4/5 years for further updated reports
I'm 71 in under 6 months - the thought of all of this until I die.

Tardis

Our GP doesn't charge for letters.  It very much depends where you are.

debbiedo49

I'm 50 shortly with life long conditions, and I don't want to be so poor I don't know if I can afford to look after myself because I can't work full time. This is a never ending debate

topshoes

you are still  a young woman @debbiedo49  x

Laura99

Heavens. For my own PIP appeal, I wrote a submission, which is encouraged by the DWP.  Now, if they look at submissions written by claimants they will surely give weight to submissions from husbands or wives. Who knows how a condition affects a claimant better than the claimant him/herself? Their partner, who daily sees the struggles the condition places on the claimant. It seems like a better idea than a letter from a GP, who does not live with you, after all. At least, mine doesn't. I think that the person who knows how your condition affects you most should write a submission. It ought to help, and I do not know why any suggestions of fraud have been made here. That is terribly unhelpful.

Yadnad

Fraud was mentioned by me as a possibility, not a certainty, that some letters written by a close relative could and I say could be subject to exaggeration to improve the chances of an award. This came about when it was said that a letter from a husband/wife would weigh more in evidence terms than any letter from a GP.
This is a personal opinion that if I was the case manager any such letter I would always treat them as suspect until proven otherwise.

I would say that the vast majority of such letters are genuine, but the system as I see it could be abused.

I have already said elsewhere that I would never ask any family member to write any such letter as I know they would do it honestly but there would also be the thought that 'if I added a bit here and a bit there' it would give the claimant a better chance.

This thread deteriorated to this argument only because of one poster that implied that the 'best' evidence is a letter from a family member - the DWP will take more notice of it than they would of a letter from an independent medical professional.

Finally if such a letter is being considered then go ahead, but please try to obtain independent evidence to support whatever is said in it.