PIP, DLA and AA
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Fabricated pip assessment by capita

kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
Hi I am currently in the middle of a very large complaint against the Disability Assessor who carried out my home assessment. I have had a useless response from capita that basically ignored my 13 page complaint and I am now having my complaint looked at by the Independent Case Examiner, they have acknowledged that I do have grounds and have highlighted 21 points where the DA has either fully or partially fabricated my report. The whole process has had such a detrimental effect on my health. I have had to go to appeal to receive the benefits that I am legally entitled to. I am still disgusted that the DA’s report is still what the DWP are basing their scoring on. I asked for a different assessor to carry out an assessment but this was refused and I was informed that a paper based assessment was being carried out by capita. Once again the original report was used as part of this assessment. This whole process needs to change it led me to the brink or ending my life and nothing should do that. If anyone else has been through this process and can offer any advice I would be grateful.

Replies

  • vivienne1vivienne1 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    I've just posted about making a complaint about my assessor, how do you do that?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    vivienne1 said:
    I've just posted about making a complaint about my assessor, how do you do that?
    I answered your question here on your thread https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/61790/unhappy-with-my-assessor-advice#latest

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019
    @kerry31 - I've posted elsewhere about making a complaint, which you might like to look at.

    I had a similar experience to you - Capita looked at my complaint, then a "final look" and that was it unless I wanted to take it to the ICE.

    The result of the complaint - until they decided to listen to the recording that I had made - was a couple of long letters that they thought "may help you to understand our procedures" and the assessor being asked about it by her line manager and "couldn't remember." Anything contentious - such as the assessor failing to get consent to examine me - was ignored.

    Can you substantiate any of your complaints, if the assessor denies them?

    (@poppy123456 - sorry...just seen your post..I didn't realise that this had been asked on another post)
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    Hi, all you need to do is write directly to capita with your complaint. I ensured that I bullet-pointed  every issue individually and stated what the assessor said and what actually happened. All capita did was keep saying I needed to do a mandatory reconsideration and totally ignored the actual real issues that was against the DA. I have two people who were with me during the assessment who are prepared to state the truth of what happened, also some of the comments that were made by the DA I am able to prove that she has fabricated due to statements made regarding my children. 2 of my children are disabled and she had stated things that they do which they are incapable of doing. She was unaware of my children’s needs.
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    Has anyone contacted the police to see if it's a criminal act?
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    I haven’t as yet as not sure how this will all work out.  If ICE can’t resolve this then I wiill go to the next stage and I will also seek advice as to if this is a criminal act. 
    I have been looking at the level of complaints of this nature that the DWP receive and it’s ridiculous the number of complaints all around the same issue of DA’s fabricating reports, why do these people think that it’s ok to mess up people’s lives like this and why is nobody stepping in and resolving it.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019

    @kerry31 - No-one at Capita is interested in complaints - they know that people will bang their head against a brick wall for a bit and then go away once they realise that there is nothing they can do. I found their investigation so poor that it was actually worse than my initial complaint!!

    In my case I made it clear that I didn’t want anyone to be sacked but all that I was looking for was to have some appropriate corrections to the report so that it was accurate. However the assessor was so poor - in terms of interview technique, listening skills, accurately recording information etc - that I genuinely thought that they might want to give her some feedback.

    I also suggested that they might use the recording of my assessment in their training programme as it was a good example of “how not to do an interview.”

    My MP made sympathetic noises but essentially the problem is that anyone at a more senior level who could actually do something about it is busy dealing with something else.

    Please let us all know how this is resolved by ICE…I'd find your reply very interesting

  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    @cristobal I will certainly let you know, I did the same as you and stated that I wasn’t trying to get the DA sacked or disciplined, I suggested re training may be required. Unfortunately as you said capita was a complete waste of time and in my eyes failed to respond to anything directed at the DA. I am now at a point where I will not let this drop and will keep on perusing the issue. I’m sure no one will listen but I’ll have a good go at it as this needs to stop. The distress it has caused me has had horrendous consequences on my mental health, luckily I have a great support network that keeps me going. If I didn’t I don’t think I would be here to write this.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @kerry31 - you must do what you think best.....

    Personally, looking back, I should have abandoned my complaint earlier than I did as all I did was cause myself a lot of stress.

    It is true though that to have a process that, effectively, you can't complain against is very unfair.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    I'm interested in this, I'm going to be making a complaint when I finally have my decision, judging from my report which is full of lies and contradictions, my award will be lowered from enhanced for both to daily, he's take 8 points out of each (I had 18 in each) and removed anything that indicates that I have mental health problems, he's gone against the previous assessors report, a psychiatrist report, a letter which my previous GP did for the first claim which they have access to, and what both me and my Son told him. This in turn has made me very angry and has had a big impact on both my mental and physical health, it's not about the money, it's about some person who doesn't know his bum from his elbow claiming I don't have MH problems anymore, all he had to do is read the evidence.

    Please keep us updated, I'm going to follow this thread and see how you get on with your complaint, I hope something good comes out of it.
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    @WF2k I will keep you updated, my Mental health was also dismissed by the DA and the DWP. They really are destroying lives and something needs to be done, I’m sure there are many many people all going through the same thing and I just hope more people stand up and tell their story, people need to be heard and not silenced. I hope you get somewhere with your complaint.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:

    It’s not a criminal act. It is their opinion of what you said / did against yours. 

    Very true...you can't be wrong about what your opinion is! 

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    riget said:
    Has anyone contacted the police to see if it's a criminal act?
    It's not a criminal act and the police wouldn't be interested.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    (I'm crazyjan's husband) Surely falsifying information on a government document is fraud? Also, consider defamation of character. Dishonest reporting on a government document (particularly intentional) is a criminal offence(I'm a civil servant, 33 years). Try doing this on a tax return!!  The police might not be interested but a solicitor would be if you could afford one. Not surprisingly, legal aid isn't available for welfare benefits complaints. 
  • rigetriget Member Posts: 29 Listener
    crazyjan said:
    (I'm crazyjan's husband) Surely falsifying information on a government document is fraud? Also, consider defamation of character. Dishonest reporting on a government document (particularly intentional) is a criminal offence(I'm a civil servant, 33 years). Try doing this on a tax return!!  The police might not be interested but a solicitor would be if you could afford one. Not surprisingly, legal aid isn't available for welfare benefits complaints. 
    You don't work for the dwp then.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's your word against theirs and proving it, is a completely different thing. It's not fraud, it's their opinion.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    It’s not their opinion when they state that I said something which I didn’t and also when they put complete lies down, this person is not educated to the same standard in which my GP and various consultants I have, all of whom gave statements of how my conditions effect me. So why does someone who meets you for 20 mins get to say what they want about me which is made up and insinuates that I am a lier and benefit cheat, when she didn’t even carry out a full assessment yet lied stating she did. If it isn’t an offence it should be... I wish I could afford a solicitor because I would most definitely move forward with this. This woman broke me and what right did she have to do that.
  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Many dishonest statements can be proved. I don't really want to argue the point here, but for example, my wife wife is deaf. Assessor reported no hearing impairment. My wife has lost the use of her right arm (xray and medical evidence given). Assessor reported no physical restriction to right arm. I could go on...…….   If dishonest reporting can be evidentially verified then it is fraud. Plain and simple. Nothing to do with opinions.
  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Riget - no. I definitely don't work for the DWP. I'm retired now anyway.
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    @crazyjan sounds very similar to what’s happened to myself and I fully agree it is fraud, if we completed any of their forms falsely we would be prosecuted. 
  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Kerry31.  My wife is devastated. I understand just a little how you must be feeling. Try and stay strong.
  • vivienne1vivienne1 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    It's your word against theirs and proving it, is a completely different thing. It's not fraud, it's their opinion.

    I dont understand why their opinion seems to be worth more than some trained in that area.

    My assessor had no understanding of mental health and trauma. I had to explain to her what CBT was! She asked me why the waiting time for a psychologist here is 12-18 months. Why cant people be assessed by someone who understands that condition?
  • kerry31kerry31 Member Posts: 8 Connected
    Thank you crazyjan and I hope your wife finds the strength not to let these people get away with it and turns that devastation feeling around and fights back. She sounds like she has a very supportive husband so hopefully she will be feeling better soon. 

  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    "Opinions" would not stand up in a court of law. Evidence would. How valid is the "opinion" of somebody not trained in mental health when dealing with somebody with mental illness? They wouldn't even make it to the witness stand! Opinions are not facts.
  • crazyjancrazyjan Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Kerry … thankyou so much. I hope you manage to find your way through this crazy system. Good luck and don't give up.
  • vivienne1vivienne1 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    crazyjan said:
    "Opinions" would not stand up in a court of law. Evidence would. How valid is the "opinion" of somebody not trained in mental health when dealing with somebody with mental illness? They wouldn't even make it to the witness stand! Opinions are not facts.
    I think it's a sad reflection of how mental illness is viewed in this country. Few care unless it affects them and even fewer want to learn about it. We seem to be stuck in the dark old days of because you cant see it it's not a real disability. 
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    I wonder if things would improve if the people with mental illnesses were just seen by HCP's trained for that type of illness.
    And people with physical illnesses were just seen by HCP's trained for those illnesses.
    I wonder if this would work, then we would all see someone who were trained in what we have wrong with us. 
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    My problems are heart and bones, it would be pointless me seeing a mental health nurse. Likewise, it'd be pointless a mental health person seeing a heart and bones nurse !!
  • vivienne1vivienne1 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    edited July 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I take the opposite view, if you had a specialist perform a functional assessment, as they have greater understanding of the condition if anything they would be harsher. You cannot pull the wool over a specialists eyes.

    e.g someone with minor heart failure who is not medicated but is claiming they are too fatigued and breathless to do anything. A specialist would know (without any assessment training) that this is medically improbable.

    And is what assessors are trained to do, weight up evidence and decide if restriction is evident or medically probable. I used to feel it was like a big logic puzzle. Person says X restriction but does Y evidence + Z evidence = X restriction.


    Why would you want to pull the wool over anyone's eyes? That just implies claimants are at it. All people are asking is for a fair assessment by people who know and understand the problems the claimant is facing. I would have no issue with my assessment being done by a psychiatrist, psychologist or even a CPN because I'm being honest about my condition and how it affects me.
  • vivienne1vivienne1 Member Posts: 18 Connected
    edited July 2019
    Yes, some assessors certainly do. I got my report in today and I dont recognise the person in it. I wish I was that well! One spectacular lie is I dont need glasses yet had my glasses on during the interview. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    Just to add a degree of balance to the debate....

    I recorded my assessment (as people probably know by now!) and when I got the assessor's report I was appalled at how bad it was and the number of "lies" that there were.

    However, when I listened back to the recording, there were quite a few things in it that I would have sworn that I hadn't said and i even got the answer to a couple of questions wrong. Hard to believe i know and I would have disputed these but the assessor had actually got it right!

    The report was still poor, and there were several things that were completely wrong and that I plainly didn't say, but it's worth acknowledging that claimants make mistakes as well...
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I take the opposite view, if you had a specialist perform a functional assessment, as they have greater understanding of the condition if anything they would be harsher. You cannot pull the wool over a specialists eyes.

    e.g someone with minor heart failure who is not medicated but is claiming they are too fatigued and breathless to do anything. A specialist would know (without any assessment training) that this is medically improbable.

    And is what assessors are trained to do, weight up evidence and decide if restriction is evident or medically probable. I used to feel it was like a big logic puzzle. Person says X restriction but does Y evidence + Z evidence = X restriction.


    I can understand your point of view, but for me I'd rather see someone trained to know what my illnesses are and how they affect me. 

  • pcoventrypcoventry Member Posts: 149 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    They waste so much time and money by not doing it right - my DA disregarded the entire chat we had about needing my support person with me when I drive anywhere because I get lost and can't work a sat nav - (I've begged the RAC to take me home and even got so scared I called the Police once to ask for help) That went down as no problem with me mentally because I could maintain having a driving licence (and could indeed drive, so by her thoughts anyone on Enhanced PIP is in the wrong then?) 

    My mum (RIP) got her licence at 17 and never drove until she dropped at 66 - so how hard is it to keep a licence in this woman's eyes? (ironically turns out she got the bus to my house, so) 

    DWP current tribunal bill for 2019 currently stands at 82M and rising - I have a MR for my mobility and a Tribunal for my WCA because the "doctor" did a wonderful medical report, but failed at any point to actually go near me  - Capita really is a waste of oxygen. my DA said she was a Physio, she was actually a nurse - she told them I was still under care for the physio team, they wrote to my GP 3 months ago saying they couldn't do any more for me. She said I was booked in for an MRI scan too!

    Wouldn't it be nice if I was ACTUALLY told about such things!?  You'd think right!? 

    I know they want us to go through hoops if we want to record the assessments, but I DO wonder if any of it could be Libellous if proved otherwise
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited July 2019
    @kerry31 sorry I'm only just responding, my mental health is all over the place atm, I've had a couple of meltdowns in the past couple of weeks or so.

    Thank you very much Kerry.

    Well said @KG100
  • ste1965ste1965 Member Posts: 31 Connected
    When i got my assessment report through there were a couple off things on there that made me think my assessor was drunk lol he listed all my 13 medications and further along the report wrote i do not take any medications for my illness.
    Im happy with my outcome but what a massive mistake for the assessor to make wonder if that made DWP smile when they read that.

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