Fabricated pip assessment by capita

crazyjan

Kerry31.  My wife is devastated. I understand just a little how you must be feeling. Try and stay strong.

vivienne1

poppy123456 said:

It's your word against theirs and proving it, is a completely different thing. It's not fraud, it's their opinion.

I dont understand why their opinion seems to be worth more than some trained in that area.

My assessor had no understanding of mental health and trauma. I had to explain to her what CBT was! She asked me why the waiting time for a psychologist here is 12-18 months. Why cant people be assessed by someone who understands that condition?

kerry31

Thank you crazyjan and I hope your wife finds the strength not to let these people get away with it and turns that devastation feeling around and fights back. She sounds like she has a very supportive husband so hopefully she will be feeling better soon. 

crazyjan

"Opinions" would not stand up in a court of law. Evidence would. How valid is the "opinion" of somebody not trained in mental health when dealing with somebody with mental illness? They wouldn't even make it to the witness stand! Opinions are not facts.

crazyjan

Kerry … thankyou so much. I hope you manage to find your way through this crazy system. Good luck and don't give up.

vivienne1

crazyjan said:

"Opinions" would not stand up in a court of law. Evidence would. How valid is the "opinion" of somebody not trained in mental health when dealing with somebody with mental illness? They wouldn't even make it to the witness stand! Opinions are not facts.

I think it's a sad reflection of how mental illness is viewed in this country. Few care unless it affects them and even fewer want to learn about it. We seem to be stuck in the dark old days of because you cant see it it's not a real disability. 

KG100

I wonder if things would improve if the people with mental illnesses were just seen by HCP's trained for that type of illness.
And people with physical illnesses were just seen by HCP's trained for those illnesses.
I wonder if this would work, then we would all see someone who were trained in what we have wrong with us. 

KG100

My problems are heart and bones, it would be pointless me seeing a mental health nurse. Likewise, it'd be pointless a mental health person seeing a heart and bones nurse !!

vivienne1

ilovecats said:

I take the opposite view, if you had a specialist perform a functional assessment, as they have greater understanding of the condition if anything they would be harsher. You cannot pull the wool over a specialists eyes.

e.g someone with minor heart failure who is not medicated but is claiming they are too fatigued and breathless to do anything. A specialist would know (without any assessment training) that this is medically improbable.

And is what assessors are trained to do, weight up evidence and decide if restriction is evident or medically probable. I used to feel it was like a big logic puzzle. Person says X restriction but does Y evidence + Z evidence = X restriction.

Why would you want to pull the wool over anyone's eyes? That just implies claimants are at it. All people are asking is for a fair assessment by people who know and understand the problems the claimant is facing. I would have no issue with my assessment being done by a psychiatrist, psychologist or even a CPN because I'm being honest about my condition and how it affects me.

vivienne1

Yes, some assessors certainly do. I got my report in today and I dont recognise the person in it. I wish I was that well! One spectacular lie is I dont need glasses yet had my glasses on during the interview. 

cristobal

Just to add a degree of balance to the debate....

I recorded my assessment (as people probably know by now!) and when I got the assessor's report I was appalled at how bad it was and the number of "lies" that there were.

However, when I listened back to the recording, there were quite a few things in it that I would have sworn that I hadn't said and i even got the answer to a couple of questions wrong. Hard to believe i know and I would have disputed these but the assessor had actually got it right!

The report was still poor, and there were several things that were completely wrong and that I plainly didn't say, but it's worth acknowledging that claimants make mistakes as well...

KG100

ilovecats said:

I take the opposite view, if you had a specialist perform a functional assessment, as they have greater understanding of the condition if anything they would be harsher. You cannot pull the wool over a specialists eyes.

e.g someone with minor heart failure who is not medicated but is claiming they are too fatigued and breathless to do anything. A specialist would know (without any assessment training) that this is medically improbable.

And is what assessors are trained to do, weight up evidence and decide if restriction is evident or medically probable. I used to feel it was like a big logic puzzle. Person says X restriction but does Y evidence + Z evidence = X restriction.

I can understand your point of view, but for me I'd rather see someone trained to know what my illnesses are and how they affect me. 

pcoventry

They waste so much time and money by not doing it right - my DA disregarded the entire chat we had about needing my support person with me when I drive anywhere because I get lost and can't work a sat nav - (I've begged the RAC to take me home and even got so scared I called the Police once to ask for help) That went down as no problem with me mentally because I could maintain having a driving licence (and could indeed drive, so by her thoughts anyone on Enhanced PIP is in the wrong then?) 

My mum (RIP) got her licence at 17 and never drove until she dropped at 66 - so how hard is it to keep a licence in this woman's eyes? (ironically turns out she got the bus to my house, so) 

DWP current tribunal bill for 2019 currently stands at 82M and rising - I have a MR for my mobility and a Tribunal for my WCA because the "doctor" did a wonderful medical report, but failed at any point to actually go near me  - Capita really is a waste of oxygen. my DA said she was a Physio, she was actually a nurse - she told them I was still under care for the physio team, they wrote to my GP 3 months ago saying they couldn't do any more for me. She said I was booked in for an MRI scan too!

Wouldn't it be nice if I was ACTUALLY told about such things!?  You'd think right!? 

I know they want us to go through hoops if we want to record the assessments, but I DO wonder if any of it could be Libellous if proved otherwise

[Deleted User]

@kerry31 sorry I'm only just responding, my mental health is all over the place atm, I've had a couple of meltdowns in the past couple of weeks or so.

Thank you very much Kerry.

Well said @KG100

ste1965

When i got my assessment report through there were a couple off things on there that made me think my assessor was drunk lol he listed all my 13 medications and further along the report wrote i do not take any medications for my illness.
Im happy with my outcome but what a massive mistake for the assessor to make wonder if that made DWP smile when they read that.

Kaylan

Exactly  the same thing has happened to me.  I had a telephone assessment by Capita in January, during which I was not allowed to explain anything, and was talked over if I tried. With my particular health issue it is necessary to explain in detail how completing the activities affects me, as I can do most of them, with difficulty. But I was not able to, I was asked closed questions which were repeatedly asked until I said yes I could. I complained officially to Capita, but, after they interviewed the DA they decided they could not change the report as my version of events and the DAs were different.  I sent for the report, which I could have picked a million holes in.  I have done  a Mandatory Reconsideration, but of course, like Kelly's,  they could only make a decision on the DA report submitted, which was flawed. I am now at the starting a tribunal stage,  but am struggling to get in contact with Citizens Advice, as I don't want to go to a hearing alone. It has caused me untold stress like many others. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this to the most vulnerable people. 

poppy123456

Kaylan said:

 but am struggling to get in contact with Citizens Advice, as I don't want to go to a hearing alone.

They very rarely represent at a Tribunal now because of lack of funding. Most Tribunal hearings are still through telephone, as far as i'm aware.

My advice would be to forget about the assessment report because this isn't going to get you a PIP award. What you should concentrate on is real world incidents of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

See link and take note of Mike's comments. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/87932/pip-tribunal-representation/p1

For expert advice and representation then see link and "choose a topic" welfare benefits. https://advicelocal.uk/

Kaylan

Thanks for that Poppy123456.  The links you have provided are very informative and useful.  In readiness for the tribunal hearing, one of them states to write each descriptor out and indicate what happened when you last tried to do the activity. Strangely enough, I did this in my original application to DWP, almost all of which has been ignored in the DWPs final assessment. Firstly, I wonder why would anyone bother to fill the application in in detail, with examples etc, (which incidentally, because of my condition took me months) and secondly, are they saying I lied throughout my application, and if so, why bother asking the applicant to fill it out in the first place.  I am so incensed at the treatment I have received by Capita; had the DA report been truthful and I still received the same Award, I would not have pursued this as it causes too much stress. 

calcotti

It isn't necessary to provide extra information for the tribunal. The tribunal will see all the paperwork in connection with your claim. If you think your original information describes the difficulties you have in sufficient detail any additional submission (if you choose to do one) can simply reference the original information. 

Kaylan

Oh, I thought I had to submit the information again; one of Mike's links said to provide examples for each of the 12 activities.