PIP, DLA and AA
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when is somebody in power going to listen?

pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
I`ve just watched the BBC Inside Out programme about all the people who are being abused by the PIP system.
Abuse is a strong word...but fits this appalling situation perfectly!

I am waiting for the result of my f2f, which was at my home on 3rd October. I am almost totally dependent on my hubby and carers, to cook my meals, get me in and out of bed, toilet, shower, dress me and take me out.

Everyone tells me I should get the same level of PIP as I got for 19 years on D:LA. But both my hubby and myself are far from confident that this will be the case.

My assessor was a pleasant woman, but I have absolutely no idea how it will turn out. If I am downgraded I will definitely fight for what I feel I am entitled to.

When, oh when is the government going to wake up to the fact that the current PIP application system is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE...as was said by a SCOPE advisor on the tv programme.


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Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,353 Disability Gamechanger
    @pollyanna1052, hello and welcome, have you requested a copy of the assessment report? When you received it you can workout what you're award may should be but you still have to wait for the official award confirmation letter. 
  • NevergiveupNevergiveup Member Posts: 8 Connected
    I had my pip home assessment today, I was transferring from DLA  like many others out there I feel the current system is letting claimants down as the evidence is all clear to see I have a form of dwarfism so it made a very interesting visit, I didn't sleep well last night due to my aches and pains of living with my condition and the anxiety of facing today. It's been a horrible few months without a doubt having PIP hanging over me. I had so much evidence which I personally thought I'd avoid a F2F

    I decided to keep an open mind and I couldn't have been more wrong. The lady was a nurse and she was lovely, she obviously had an agenda to follow which I understand. All she was looking at were those things I had written in my PIP2 form were medically reasonable and consistent with what I was saying to her. Are they trying to trip you up?? Now that is open to debate. She mentioned other claimants appeared hostile and you could sense it the minute they walk through your door. But like she said to me if you have nothing to hide there is no need for that, and it does make them suspicious to start which is never a good thing. Anyway, she agreed with me and thoroughly went through everything to make sure that I got the maximum award possible on both daily living and mobility. She left assuring me that I would be fine and not to worry. I guess it really is down to having an assessor that believes you.


  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    No, I thought about it and decided not to, as it is not a result.
    Someone else here recently, wrote that she had got her`s and it looked good. She still asked if that meant a good award. No-one could give her that reassurance. She said she kind of wished she hadnt bothered.

    I dont need that sort of is it/isnt it good?

    I`ve been feeling more anxious than words can say. I`m feeling angry today.
    Is anybody going to hear us? Not here of course, as here is a wonderful place of support and care. I mean someone who could actually do something about this total farce!
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    I had my pip home assessment today, I was transferring from DLA  like many others out there I feel the current system is letting claimants down as the evidence is all clear to see I have a form of dwarfism so it made a very interesting visit, I didn't sleep well last night due to my aches and pains of living with my condition and the anxiety of facing today. It's been a horrible few months without a doubt having PIP hanging over me. I had so much evidence which I personally thought I'd avoid a F2F

    I decided to keep an open mind and I couldn't have been more wrong. The lady was a nurse and she was lovely, she obviously had an agenda to follow which I understand. All she was looking at were those things I had written in my PIP2 form were medically reasonable and consistent with what I was saying to her. Are they trying to trip you up?? Now that is open to debate. She mentioned other claimants appeared hostile and you could sense it the minute they walk through your door. But like she said to me if you have nothing to hide there is no need for that, and it does make them suspicious to start which is never a good thing. Anyway, she agreed with me and thoroughly went through everything to make sure that I got the maximum award possible on both daily living and mobility. She left assuring me that I would be fine and not to worry. I guess it really is down to having an assessor that believes you.


    Hi, your`s was a good experience. But sadly, I have read here about others who have said the same. But then they have not  received they expected. Some gremlins get into the reports and mix them up somehow! I truly hope you get a good result chick!xxx
  • NevergiveupNevergiveup Member Posts: 8 Connected
    Yes, it seems a common theme, assessors appearing nice to you, I hate the system and what it's done to so many disabled people, we shouldn't have to fight to get what we are entitled to and having to prove over and over again that we do have health problems, It's mentally draining, I hope everything turns out well for you.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you. xxx
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,043 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    I think the whole system is a cost-cutting exercise. They hope people will give up or give in at each stage - they are trying to win through attrition. x% of people will give up at the MR stage, and y% will give up at the tribunal stage, so they have saved a bit of money.

    Thats just what I think - not saying it is definitely their agenda (though I have my suspicions).

    Luckily the chance of winning at tribunal is not low. I think they know this and they just hope people will give up before it gets to that stage.

    All we can do is keep playing along with the system and not give up. 


  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,997

    Scope community team

    Hi @pollyanna1052, thanks for sharing. 
    If anyone else wants to watch the Inside Out episode, you can view it here.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    zakblood said:

    when is somebody in power going to listen?

    never, unless the 13.9 million disabled people in the UK make their own party, now that may change a few things!
    yeh but would we be strong enough to fight. we cant do with demonstrations..get cold...toileting issues etc.
  • SwordfishSwordfish Member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    George Galloway might turn a few heads, he made the American look stupid 
  • SwordfishSwordfish Member Posts: 54 Pioneering
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Well I feel sorry for those switching from DLA to PIP who are either be downgraded or are losing their money altogether. 

    I've been downgraded but not because I switched from DLA, this was a review where the only thing that had changed since my first assessment in 2013 is that I've been diagnosed with FM, but the recent assessor has decided that I no longer have mental health problems, and after 6 months of messing around, not keeping me updated, bothering my GP for information, the case manager decided to go along with the assessor anyway by the looks of it! To say I'm disgusted is a understatement, it's not about the money, it's about pretty much being called a liar when they had evidence in front of their eyes and even bothered my GP for info... This has had a huge impact on my health to be honest.

    In regards to ESA I was deemed fit for work twice, appealed both times and one both times.. 
  • NevergiveupNevergiveup Member Posts: 8 Connected
    They all consider us guilty even before we start, there are many of us who could be assessed with a paper-based review, but they seem to want to drag us through hell. My only saving grace is my disabilities can be seen a mile off. You can't really hide dwarfism.  I feel so sorry for individuals who have hidden disabilities, no one should be treated this way.  
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,043 Disability Gamechanger
    My decision letter said something similar, justdon. It said I did not appear anxious, tense or psychologically distressed. Basically, “you don’t look unwell”. I thought this sounded a bit like something that you’d say in the ‘70s, not 2019.

    To be fair, I likely didn’t look that unwell as I was making a huge effort to remain dignified and composed for the appointment, however I find it odd that they can judge hidden disabilities going by looks.
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,043 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree - you wouldn’t have a psychologist assess a (mentally well) wheelchair-bound person’s physical health so why do they do it the other way around?

    I have read that for ESA you can request a mental health professional conducts your assessment, it would be good if something similar was offered for PIP.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Thankyou everyone for your replies. This is one HUGE can of worms, which needs to be opened right under the Prime Minister`s nose.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Is there not a petition demanding that government look at this MASSIVE problem, which we could all sign? Or have I missed it?
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  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Is there not a petition demanding that government look at this MASSIVE problem, which we could all sign? Or have I missed it?
    Could you start one - and then post the link on here (if that's allowed?)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    justdon My first assessor was a physio but she understood both my mental and physical health, the assessor I had in April was a nurse, nothing else, not specialised in anything apart from lying.
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  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    well i've said it here in the past, and now it's come true, as i said my ESA WCA was flawed from the start, as it seemed to be not only in more depth, but my last one was certainly different than my 4 previous ones and in little depth, now it seems all will be rolled into one,

    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ministers-push-ahead-with-single-face-to-face-assessments-for-disability-benefits/

    welcome to the world of cost cutting, and be damned if they careless or get it wrong more often in the process, not they who suffer
  • mrbuttonsmrbuttons Member Posts: 221 Pioneering
    disabled people are easy targets, whether we are being attacked by bullies who subject us to violent hate crimes or a heartless government that treats us like parasites and spongers. i would be 100% behind a political party run by and for the millions of people affected by disability. we are the only group whose vote is ignored. no existing party deserves my vote because none have said anything about tackling the unfairness we face in all aspects of society.
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  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,099 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sure many assessors listen to people with disabilities, but then they have to tick boxes, not only about the 'descriptors', but also against any 'phrases' their system dictates. Therein lie errors, compounded by the fact that the DWP Decision Maker has no medical knowledge whatsoever, so is in no position to see contradictions in some assessors reports.

    I'm not sure I'm speaking to @justdon anymore   :'( some would never sit behind an assessor's desk but do try to help others here, chiarieds M.C.S.P.
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  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,099 Disability Gamechanger
    @justdon - I'm a qualified physiotherapist, 'tho haven't worked as such for a long time (M.C.S.P. = Member of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapists). Sorry, thought you'd Google or guess. You did mention 'bl**dy physios; we're not all bad I hope!

    My apologies again....you might enjoy this one: I went for a Mandatory Reconsideration because I was deemed to be able to walk more metres than both I & my GP had said (just having been seen to walk 6 metres), 'because I didn't see a Pain Management or Physiotherapy Specialist.' I'd mentioned I was a retired physio at my assessment, which was documented, as had my GP in his letter. My GP had also said that pain medication was ineffective in those with my disorder.

    Inappropriate 'phrases' such as this in my case, 'also I appeared well nourished' (so therefore you can make a meal.....but actually I've always been rather underweight). Or 'didn't appear anxious, tense, or psychologically distressed,' as 66Mustang mentioned above are where we're all let down. An appropriately written assessment could be helpful, but having to tick boxes instead may fail those who need help.

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  • SwordfishSwordfish Member Posts: 54 Pioneering
    I'm tempted to make a walking stick and attach a bicycle bell, use it when I go to my Tribunal then tell them it's a navigation aid.      😉
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,099 Disability Gamechanger
    @justdon Profound apologies. I'm sorry to say I have also met a few physios that I'm deeply ashamed of. And yes, we were not trained to know about mental health issues; but for me the whole person mattered; I have always listened, & tried to learn from the patients I've met. ....which was in some cases probably more important than any treatment I ever gave.

    I think the whole PIP process drains those who should receive it ragged, & that assessors, from whatever profession, have difficulty in trying to find the 'right' tick box or 'phrase' to better help someone as far as the PIP system goes. And many of us don't neatly fit into a 'niche.'
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited October 2019
    justdon ah no, I think i just had a decent assessor, the assessment was back in 2013, she acknowledged my mental and physical health with very little evidence, all she really had was a letter from the GP *shrugs*.

    Obviously this new assessor didn't think about the fact that FM and mental health problems are related eh? Might have to point that out in my MR?
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    justdon no I find it hard to post on these forums nowadays due to certain people making my anxiety worse. I even edited the post that you responded to, that's how bad I am with forums and such.

    Yes, I do understand because I struggle explaining verbally as well and then this used against you at assessments.

    I kind of have an awareness but I don't fully understand it, what I mean by that is, I didn't even realise that the butterfly feeling that some of us get can actually be related to anxiety, it's not the feeling you get when you're excited it's a bad feeling and I have this every single day. I try and put it into words but I get frustrated because I don't know how to explain, I don't know if this is due to the fact that I have rubbish concentration and attention span because of my mental health and fibro.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited October 2019
    Ahh that's nice of you @justdon thank you :smile:

    Don't worry about the post because I've just had my anxiety triggered by someone on here because they were making assumptions about something I said.

    yeah the fog is real lol.
  • paffuto10paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
       When is somebody in power going to     listen?

    @pollyanna1052

    Hi Polly, 
     If it's any consolation here's an extract from the MP's (long) letter, who was helping with our adult son's case. 

    "It is unacceptable that these assessments are still causing vulnerable people additional stress and are being carried out in an unsatisfactory manner. 
    I have serious concerns about this issue and I believe we should be caring for all sick and disabled people, rather than making their lives worse through punitive assessments".

    Also 
    "The Disability Benefits Consortium" survey results indicate that 8 in every 10 facing PIP assessments find it makes their health worse, and two thirds feel their claim was poorly represented by the assessor. 
    A report by the Commons' Work and Pension Committee highlighted that there was a pervasive culture of mistrust,  creating a fear of F2F assessments and exacerbating anxiety. 

    "This evidence illustrates that instead of supporting people, the PIP process is often dehumanising, inaccurate and worsens existing health conditions". 

    He goes on to say that he is committed to developing a social security system that delivers dignity and empowerment and believes the Government should scrap the current regime.

    Labour MP (of course). 

    Made me feel a bit better though. 
    Hope it does the same for you Polly. 

    Also, I had my f2f for PIP renewal two weeks before yours and have just received the decision. 
    Positive result - same rate on both components as last 3 years.

    So fingers crossed Polly that yours comes as quickly and with a good result like mine. 
    Keep your chin up and stay strong xx

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @justdon tell me about it lol, I'm quite mindful when I'm typing things on forums and will even delete/edit things if I feel they sound off.

    If I typed how I speak it would have swearing in it lol.


  • worried33worried33 Member Posts: 399 Pioneering
    First off, try not to be too downbeat, you not had a decision yet, have you asked for the medical report?

    I can offer my personal opinion on PIP whether its fit for purpose.

    I can understand the basis of checking all "new" claimants.  I also having examined descriptors for both DLA and PIP, think for the DL side of things PIP is better than DLA, as it has a wider scope.  I always believe in a system that helps as many people as possible.

    I do think PIP is harsh on the mobility descriptors, 20m is an incredibly short distance and my view is someone who can manage 20m vs someone who can manage 50m is going to have not much functional restriction difference.  I also think the LRM should be higher than 50m.  Someone who can manage 150m e.g. is still going to be noticeably restricted on day to day stuff.  Thats a short enough distance e.g. to need taxis instead of buses.  But I dont consider PIP unfit for purpose.

    When comparing it to ESA, ESA has much harsher descriptors, ESA also has a cap of 3 years on reassessments, with typical periods been between 6 and 18 months.

    Clearly the PIP waiting times need sorting out tho.  The amount of stress and ordeal people are been put through is barely acceptable in my opinion.  I hope your wait for a decision is brief.  I feel if you get a copy of your report it will help. 
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  • DuffersMumDuffersMum Member Posts: 119 Pioneering
    WF2k said:
    justdon My first assessor was a physio but she understood both my mental and physical health, the assessor I had in April was a nurse, nothing else, not specialised in anything apart from lying.
    My assessor was also a nurse who appears to know better than my GP, consultant and the NHS guidelines, I think I should be writing to the government to suggest they make her Health Minister...

    She was clueless about my condition and a huge part of my assessment report appears to have been copied and pasted from somewhere else.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @DuffersMum I've noticed other things with my report apart from the copy and pasting and it's the dates on the report.. they don't tally *shrugs*
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited October 2019
    @justdonI did wonder then I thought you were doing like like a profanity thing were people put symbols instead of words lmao XD

    It would be good if they thought about getting someone who health problems to help with the DWP stuff, but that's too easy isn't it eh lol.





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  • paffuto10paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
    @DuffersMum

    I thought I had blown my assessment right from the start. 
    My assessor was also a nurse. 

    I have arthritis in both hips, spondylosis, sciatica and prolapsed disc. 

    She waited for me as I shuffled slowly across the room, holding on to husband with one hand and stick with the other. As soon as I got into the room whilst I was struggling to sit, hubby lowering me into chair, she asked if she could go through some movements with me?!! 

    I snapped angrily "does it look as though I can do movements for you.?" 

    However, I also have PTSD so I was able to put the snappiness down to that  o:)
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Phew! and WoW! and yeh! What a fantastic response and I`ve obviously got you all incensed with my post.

    Now let me try to reply to some......

    @justdon & @chariads...I`m glad you 2 didnt get to written fisticuffs and you made it right...we dont want or need any fall outs here

    @worried 33....you say you dont feel PIP is unfit for purpose....a spokesperson from Scope said it was and so many here can vouch for that with their results/assessments.....I went through the ESA system when I was of working age and dont remember it giving me quite as much anxiety...I do recall the form taking 3 hours to fill in, compared to 2 hours with PIP....I`m 67 now and had to retire on ill health grounds at 47!!! So I`ve had 20 glorious years at this game!

    @paffuto10...who was that MP and when was it? is he/she still in power? They sound like they know what they are talking about

    @wilko......no, I dont want to ask for my assessment report before I get my decision, as it would push me over the edge, if it was full of inaccuracies......but didnt someone say it is needed for an MR? Does anyone know if you get it with your results of an assessment please?

    @cristobal....a petition? I wouldnt know where to start, but I`ll ask Scope about it

    To everyone else. Thankyou so much for your replies. I truly hope all your f2f assessments, MRs and tribunals go well and you live to tell the tale! Me too! xxxx
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  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    There is a petition already over half way there...I`ve just signed it and am number 5381....they need 10,000 signatures to get it to parliament. You can find it under my post `question to Scope advisers`...Poppy has kindly provided us with the necessary. Come on guys...get signing and dont forget to click on the email they send you, or your vote won`t count! xxx
  • mrbuttonsmrbuttons Member Posts: 221 Pioneering
    i cant find the petition and iwant to sign it. where is it? sorry if im being a bit dense.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    mrbuttons said:
    i cant find the petition and iwant to sign it. where is it? sorry if im being a bit dense.

    Hi, type in...https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/274312
    Thankyoux
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    mrbuttons said:
    i cant find the petition and iwant to sign it. where is it? sorry if im being a bit dense.

    Hi again, have you managed to sign the petition? xxx
  • mrbuttonsmrbuttons Member Posts: 221 Pioneering
    @pollyanna1052 the first time i clicked the link it didnt work but i kept trying and will sign it now. thanks for the info

  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Just checked it and realised I had typed a 3 at then end instead of a 2. Sorry about that x
  • NevergiveupNevergiveup Member Posts: 8 Connected
    All signed, it's time to bring them down and put a stop to this madness. How many of you out there had a different experience for ESA? I managed to get into the support group without any paperwork to back me up, but left names and addresses for them to contact. I just don't understand why they are being so heavy-handed with regards to PIP. I felt that the ESA questionnaire held more useful information towards my life than what they were asking for with PIP.
  • 66Mustang66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,043 Disability Gamechanger
    Good to hear that about ESA as I have an assessment coming up. I’m worried about being kicked out of the support group.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @pollyanna1052   Thank you for your post.

    As a person who has experienced many ups and downs. Many experiences some good, some bad some troubling some horrific.

    Have attended all benefit reviews, benefit assessments been mistreated, discriminated, abused.

    Much more around the issues of just wanting some money to live on and be able to support myself.

    All I ever wanted is some one to say we believe you having to prove myself constantly.

    Over a lifetime.  Is not only mentally exhausting but left me with scars and deep mistrust of a system that was designed to not be fit for purpose.

    What ever the benefit is called or how they administer it never to be ever suitable for the community and those with other disabilities or conditions.

    I was asked a long time ago. As I do get involved in debates and conversations around benefits.

    Used to attend NHS mental health advisory groups.  Through a charity.

    Gave up on that because guess what no one was listening. Even though a number of us had given sensible, practical ideas. Plus suggestions.

    The sense was well lets  ignore what has been said.

    What a waste.

    Same here.  I was asked how would you change any thing.

    First the assessment procedure has to be fit for purpose. Not medical professionals such as Ambulance drivers or Nurses or those in other medical occupations.

    In the early Eighties was Doctors assigned by the DSS as it was then so why not now. Use medical professionals also for those with conditions or disabilities whom can relate to and understand.

    Any attendance at any assessment . Always some on there who is an advocate, welfare assistance or an advisor.

    To speak on their behalf.  Video recording, voice recording.  Allowed to keep any of that .

    Reports typed up and verified by claimant and any other witness.  Any mistakes or corrections done. Signed a true record.

    A copy to claimant and copy to DWP.  Signed by assessor..

    I would like to point out needs to be also a separate evaluation and review of those who know are not going to get better.

    Those of an age who are ageing and it is evident that getting older is not helping their illness or condition or disability.

    I am middle Fifties still expected to attend assessments. Sorry but why as I am aging not getting better and is there a point to continue doing this after all I know it is causing me more harm mentally.

    Lost my lifeline a year ago lost my car so why has that happened.  Which person decided in their wisdom to stop those like myself not be able to drive.

    I use taxis but if the claimant has no means of support and it is pointed out with that in any assessment then you should be able to keep the car.

    Be a separate scheme contract hire as long you are fit to drive and have the finance benefits to pay.  No age limit.  

    There are more like your good self who needs to be told no more assessments.

    I do not see why you need to be assessed you have worked hard and now it is time for this Government to stop this.

    Who is benefitting.?  It is a cost saving exercise making you go through hoops in reality you need to live.

    Thank you for reading.

    @thespiceman

     
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
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  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    @justdon said ..."The beurorocy is horrendous too..i can write well ..but i massively struggle with forms and some levels of comprehension"

    @justdon - I agree with you on this.

    I'm fortunate because I'm good at form-filling (sad I know) but a lot of people aren't and, unfortunately, this means that they are let down by the system.

    The most important thing is to find out what PIP is about, and what to put in your application, before putting pen to paper. It's clear when you look through the posts on here that quite a lot of posters don't do that - so they focus on the wrong things. They may well be worthy claimants but they won't get anywhere - which is very wrong and leaves me feeling very sad...

    PS justdon - just to clarify that I agree with you and the rest of my post is talking generally...
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  • 66Mustang66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,043 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    I agree they need more qualified personnel to work as assessors, and they need people with the correct qualifications to be matched with relevant claimants (mental health professionals with mental health patients, etc).

    I too am good at filling in forms (I act as “accountant” for my parents filling in tax returns, pension forms, forms to trade on foreign stock markets etc.). I filled in my PIP claim meticulously and went over it probably 50 times. I read countless sources to know info such as what the descriptors were, and exactly what information they wanted and what they weren’t interested in.

    Yet there are people, even on this forum, who effectively say that if we have issues with the system it’s our fault, and that we haven’t filled in the forms properly.

    I struggle to see how getting a health assessor who puts inaccuracies, in some cases even lies, on their assessment can be our fault, and how this has any relevance to how we filled in the forms?

  • paffuto10paffuto10 Member Posts: 388 Pioneering
    @66Mustang

    Totally agree with you.

    Imagine going to bed every night knowing you've caused an ill/ disabled person to lose their car? 

    Or giving zero points for PIP to someone who's been on DLA for years? 

    And imagine telling your family and friends what your job is? 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @justdon   Thank you for kind words and comments..

    I wanted to just add. I did not know this till recently. Another aspect of benefits know one tells you anything.

    CAB have apparently designated staff members who do the forms for you.

    What I would suggest something I did learn to do as those days of not having any support.

    Write the answers the draft ones on a piece of paper. Make it clear and precise. Then if you can do so ring up CAB and they will fill in it for you with you at your side.

    When you make an appointment. I had two ladies who wrote in the forms for me. I asked do you do this all the time. We are volunteers only do forms.

    With the three of us we came up with a series of constructive answers and hoped that is helpful to you.

    Also I am sorry if you have experienced a lot of stress and anxiety and other problems.

    Please can I also add if you have a medical illness or a disability or have a mental health issues for example. You could always apply to any of the organisations connected with your situation.

    Many have welfare advisors, support workers or floating support to help, advise and offer guidance.

    Plus get anything else to help you with your issues or problems.

    Please ask me if you wish to. As a Community Champion have a list of organisations, societies, associations to most disabilities, illness or conditions.

    Happy to help anytime.

    I believe as with any company employing medical professionals in my humble opinion always going to be incentives.

    Always speculation as there will be about the running of these companies.

    I know always going to be rumours, stories and much more about assessors. After all there often put on this forum. Heart breaking, insensitive and no compassion.

    From members of a profession.  That claim to work for a company. That has caused detrimental damage to so many members of our community.

    Understand this they not exactly helping the situation. In many cases my own experiences.

    Have inflamed the assessments, often using language which I would call not fitting for a medical professional.

    Astounding, shocking, stunning and I could fill a exercise book with my stories, yet I do know. Need to focus on the positives think how I can be sending a message to those.

    Who are in Government in power look at what we can do if we need to.

    Is that voting at the next general election, issuing Emails to any MP's.  Stating our case our problems with the systems.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman











    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
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  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @justdon   Thank you for reply. Sorry to hear this. I am aware many organisations especially those with mental health issues have a system. 

    That means once they feel you can cope with your issues or problems do let you go.

    I had this many times often either by text or Email . Not good to be in a situation it also may I add about budgets and finances.

    Please can I just say have put on the forum a series of posts on Psychological Coping methods and Strategies if that ever helps you.

    Under the title of Psychological Coping methods part one two and three. 

    You would need to scroll down on recent discussions and find them just something to help those with .

    Anxiety or mental health problems.

    Please if I can advise with anything else please contact me.  Happy to help.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman




    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
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  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    justdon said:
    @Roddy absaloutley brilliant post !
    The sad thing, is that it's totally true... I'm 100% certain that these so-called 'assessors' have made up their minds before they've even interviewed you. My own assessment was an hour's worth of incompetence & rudeness from beginning to end. I was told to: "hurry up, keep walking, we haven't got all day" and it consisted of some 'Nurse' refuting any evidence presented to her whilst she tapped-away on her keyboard... "Lift yer legs-up, that's it, come on..." and "why haven't you worked for these past 12 years?" The ONLY resulting effect, was to leave me without any entitlement at all (having previously been awarded PIP & ESA with Enhanced Rate indefinitely) my loss of a Mobility Car, an order to report for work, massive debt and being reliant upon Food Banks and a life of total solitude and hand-outs from Charities. The appeal was hopeless as so too was the tribunal, and my own experience is by no means uncommon.  PIP has become a lottery rather than a benefit to enable one to live with some degree of self-respect... My Son of 29 years and been on DWP benefits since aged 2 due his serious communication & development disorder, has also had HIS PIP placed on hold whilst some poxy 'NURSE' decides HIS fate. My only friend in Suffolk, herself with MS and totally reliant on fulltime Carer's is also currently waiting for HER PIP to be reinstalled which she's now been without for close to 7 months... and they call this progress? You'd get better treatment at the PDSA. It's simply not good enough and whoever is responsible for this chaos should hang their head in shame... I'd like to see THEM going without for a DAY let alone for a lifetime.      
  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    DWP = Decisions Without Proficiency
    PIP = Professional Incompetence. Period.
    ESA
    = Exist Suffering Alone
    UC = Unethical Conduct

    What beneficial  Benefit  will they introduce next? 
    DII
    ? Disability Is Idleness? 
    YPIO 
    Your Putting It On?


    The world is their oyster... Perhaps they should have a referendum eh? You know, put it to the proper people: The able-bodied 'we're-all-right-mob' and those that don't know 'jack' about what it's like to be treated with total disregard or respect, of do they think that all disability is a matter of personal choice? There is more intelligence in one of my walking sticks than the entire workforce at the Department of Works and Pensions.  

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  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    @justdon, Thank you. I WILL get over it as it's a case of just having to and as it is with like 1000s of others including yourself. 

    Even if or when this Brexit nonsense is over or another 'new power' gets in, nothing much will alter as the damage has already been done and to restructure the DWP will be the last thing on their minds.

    It is always the same. Some idiot decides to implement a new rule, lasts in power for 5 years and then disappears from the scene and leaving their mess & disarray behind them. May, Rudd, Duncan Smith, the list is almost endless. I mean, Ted Heath sold us down the river to Europe, and look where HE got us, eh! 

    When people are given a 'badge of honour' it goes to their heads and they think they can rule the world with an iron fist. From car-park attendants to a DWP Assessment Officer, their dumb-ass attitudes and their careless ethos always has a detrimental effect and they care more about the title they hold than anything else. 

    It is quick & easy to make a lot of mess, but it is costly and time consuming to clean the mess up, and who in Power wants to spend any money or waste their own valuable time? Most of the able-bodied & healthy humanoids in government held positions, cannot even boil an egg, and so what chances do we have? 

    [Removed by moderator] I also consider that it is cruel to make animals work, but that is what the chimps at DWP World of Adventures, do every single day. It will be National Service next for us lot. [Removed by moderator]
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  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Well, the horror stories keep rolling in!
    It`s like reading from a horror book. So many of us have been labelled as liars..cheating our way to get PIP.

    Have you ALL signed the petition? Incase some haven't, here is the link;

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/274312

    Many thanks xxx
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 231 Pioneering
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  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    Yeh, good idea. Admin did say I could post it. Thanks
  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    Roddy said:
    DWP = Decisions Without Proficiency
    PIP = Professional Incompetence. Period.
    ESA
    = Exist Suffering Alone
    UC = Unethical Conduct

    What beneficial  Benefit  will they introduce next? 
    DII
    ? Disability Is Idleness? 
    YPIO 
    Your Putting It On?


    The world is their oyster... Perhaps they should have a referendum eh? You know, put it to the proper people: The able-bodied 'we're-all-right-mob' and those that don't know 'jack' about what it's like to be treated with total disregard or respect, of do they think that all disability is a matter of personal choice? There is more intelligence in one of my walking sticks than the entire workforce at the Department of Works and Pensions.  

    Roddy said:
    DWP = Decisions Without Proficiency
    PIP = Professional Incompetence. Period.
    ESA
    = Exist Suffering Alone
    UC = Unethical Conduct

    What beneficial  Benefit  will they introduce next? 
    DII
    ? Disability Is Idleness? 
    YPIO 
    Your Putting It On?


    The world is their oyster... Perhaps they should have a referendum eh? You know, put it to the proper people: The able-bodied 'we're-all-right-mob' and those that don't know 'jack' about what it's like to be treated with total disregard or respect, of do they think that all disability is a matter of personal choice? There is more intelligence in one of my walking sticks than the entire workforce at the Department of Works and Pensions.  


    Different subject, but with very similar overtones.
    I have no hearing in my right ear. Some years ago, I joined a free Adult Ed programme for lip reading. The next set of lessons became payable for. When questioned why this had changed. The answer was that lip reading had been put under the category of `pastimes and hobbies`. Oh yeh, like we CHOSE to be deaf, like we choose to make a raffia basket! I left the class.
    If they can squeeze another £1 from you, then they will. It's atrocious. It's like giving a child an ice cream and then taking it back. Don't get me wrong, I'm eternally grateful that my medications are all delivered, my recycled trash is collected etc. etc. but it costs me a fortune and for what? A shoddy and a sometimes forgetful service run by Aliens and the incompetent. If WE managed other peoples lives in this way, we'd all end up in Bedlam. It doesn't matter in which direction you turn to for a professional service these days from ANY government run department, it all goes pear-shaped. What's wrong with these people?     
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  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    justdon said:
    I was wondering whether posting a new thread specifically emphasing this petition could help ??

    I have signed btw ..x


    I`ve posted the petition on Coffee Lounge, as it may have got `buried` in the benefits page.xx
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 231 Pioneering
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  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    A friend of mine has put it on facebook. She is disabled and is on a lower level of PIP than her GP thinks she should be on and she daren`t fight it!
    Just gonna check how many are on it now.....will come back
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 2,032 Disability Gamechanger
    5649.....a long way to go....
  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    Everything needs a re-think, doesn't it @justdon. Most systems are so antiquated that they do not cater for the needs of the modern world. I don't know the answer or how much the costs are for running a country, but then again neither do those who supposedly govern with their own implemented rules. We all hear about our local authorities struggling to finance their communities etc., and yet they soon manage to finance the cash to tart-up their offices! There is only one thing wrong with the NHS, and that is the decisions made by a Health Minister who's only ability is to shout 'here here' in the House of Fools in Westminster.  They can't even get their own camp in order, and so how can we be expected to depend on the Muppets? Year in year out they run about like headless chickens and achieve jack **** during the process. REAL PEOPLES LIVES & WELBEING are at the mercy of these 'F**k-Wits' and yet STILL they don't have the acumen to give a brass farthing. It's no laughing joke, unless you're sadistic.  
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 231 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
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  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    5649.....a long way to go....
    I was the High Rate of PIP for both components BEFORE my disabilities & illnesses worsened... I did everything right by informing the DWP of my decline, and following the assessment I lost the Higher components...  It took SIX MONTHS for the hospital specialists to diagnose me as this obviously took lots of tests etc, but a Nurse in an assessment centre took less than hour to decide my fate and deem me fit for work. It's taken me a year to sort this mess out due to her. I intend to keep on applying for the higher rate until the DWP assessors are as sick as I am. It's the only thing one can do, as not even the courts can be relied upon to make ACCURATE decisions at these so-called Tribunals.   
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 231 Pioneering
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  • mrbuttonsmrbuttons Member Posts: 221 Pioneering
    edited October 2019
    Roddy said:
    Roddy said:
    DWP = Decisions Without Proficiency
    PIP = Professional Incompetence. Period.
    ESA
    = Exist Suffering Alone
    UC = Unethical Conduct

    What beneficial  Benefit  will they introduce next? 
    DII
    ? Disability Is Idleness? 
    YPIO 
    Your Putting It On?


    The world is their oyster... Perhaps they should have a referendum eh? You know, put it to the proper people: The able-bodied 'we're-all-right-mob' and those that don't know 'jack' about what it's like to be treated with total disregard or respect, of do they think that all disability is a matter of personal choice? There is more intelligence in one of my walking sticks than the entire workforce at the Department of Works and Pensions.  

    Roddy said:
    DWP = Decisions Without Proficiency
    PIP = Professional Incompetence. Period.
    ESA
    = Exist Suffering Alone
    UC = Unethical Conduct

    What beneficial  Benefit  will they introduce next? 
    DII
    ? Disability Is Idleness? 
    YPIO 
    Your Putting It On?


    The world is their oyster... Perhaps they should have a referendum eh? You know, put it to the proper people: The able-bodied 'we're-all-right-mob' and those that don't know 'jack' about what it's like to be treated with total disregard or respect, of do they think that all disability is a matter of personal choice? There is more intelligence in one of my walking sticks than the entire workforce at the Department of Works and Pensions.  


    Different subject, but with very similar overtones.
    I have no hearing in my right ear. Some years ago, I joined a free Adult Ed programme for lip reading. The next set of lessons became payable for. When questioned why this had changed. The answer was that lip reading had been put under the category of `pastimes and hobbies`. Oh yeh, like we CHOSE to be deaf, like we choose to make a raffia basket! I left the class.
    If they can squeeze another £1 from you, then they will. It's atrocious. It's like giving a child an ice cream and then taking it back. Don't get me wrong, I'm eternally grateful that my medications are all delivered, my recycled trash is collected etc. etc. but it costs me a fortune and for what? A shoddy and a sometimes forgetful service run by Aliens and the incompetent. If WE managed other peoples lives in this way, we'd all end up in Bedlam. It doesn't matter in which direction you turn to for a professional service these days from ANY government run department, it all goes pear-shaped. What's wrong with these people?     
    i'm sure there is corruption at the heart of this.
    many government insiders have financial interests in these companies. there is a moral and financial conflict of interests and financial greed is driving how the assessments are conducted. 
  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    justdon said:
    @Roddy ....yet another stumbling block we face ..how can we present evidence when we are forced to wait months and sometimes years to get an initial appointment ?
    And then months or even years for a diagnosis ?
    I have had severe pain with sciatica for coming on two years ..i have been backwards and forwards from the GP regarding this disabling problem for well over 18 months .i saw a physio last year ...nothing was said !....and have only NOW been told i have spinal stenonis..a year and a HALF later ...

    This is another reason(amongst many) why we are slipping through the net .

    It's quite simple really. They make it as difficult as is possible for people to submit their evidence within the time allowance given by the DWP. Don't forget, they're in this to save money and THAT is their motive. They give you 10 days to respond, and they take 10 months. Many, just simply give-up with it all as it causes too much hardship and distress. The DWP know this. We are all flogging a dead horse half of the time with these people who don't even have a central office that one can visit in person. You get passed from chimp to chimp, whilst applications are 'lost' or 'haven't been received' due to them wilfully providing you with a wrong department address and forgetting all and every conversation with them which may have taken you up to  90 minutes of trying to speak with somebody, and all of the whilst your health is deteriorating at lightning speed and aby recovery steps that you have made take you back to step one again.

    They a are VILE and abhorrent to the core. Whatever happened to Customer Service, eh? They couldn't serve a poxy tennis ball, and they've absolutely zilch from their ongoing catalogue of errors, mistakes and countless wrong decisions. The entire system, sucks and at OUR expense. I was in tears at my assessment, and I've only ever cried before at funerals. Heartless the lot of them. They KNOW I cannot walk and yet they forced me to travel TWENTY MILES, on three separate occasions to get to their Interrogation Centre For The Elderly Sick & Disabled. From 2pm until 5:30pm without any drink or even the offer of one... "Hurry Up we haven't got all day!"  and neither have I got 2 years to waste kicking your ass into order.     
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  • RoddyRoddy Member Posts: 389 Pioneering
    justdon said:
    @roddy ..yet again there is nothing you say that i could possibly disagree with ...
    It does reduce you to tears ..it is also very harmful for our mental health ..but who gives a sh** about that !
    I have been failed by the system repeatedly since the day i was born ...and im STILL fighting ..47 years later .
    And you know what ?i will continue to fight in any way i possibly am still able ...
    Not because i believe i will get anywhere or be listened to ?but because it is the right thing to do ..
    Even if it kills me ..and to be honest ..it wouldnt suprise me if it did !let alone the periods of severe depression and suicidal ideation  i have been through it is a constant physical deterioration too  ..and just like you said ..any healing that has taken place is simply unravelled the minute we have to deal with these people yet again or try to wrap our heads around yet another totally gobbledygook form  .
    I hear someone on some sick doctors programme yesterday talking about how the future looks "bright" for mental health sufferers ...i mean ?people are actually believing this stuff ??
    I hold the system directly responsible for what has happened to me over the course of my life time.And countless others.

    I too have been abused by assessment centre staff and complaints have had to be made (not that they will ever be taken seriously or admitted to of course)
    Have been reduced to tears by the downright open preducice and rudeness of some of them ..
    Not to mention from other people who are meant to be in positions of "care"

    What can we do tho when this is what we are up against ??

    I love your posts btw ..because you voice the actual TRUTH of whats really happening out here ..
    Thankyou !







    I am now finally free from the horror of my care home, and so NOW is the time for the real fun to begin. Their antics are soon to be splattered on Facebook and on other social media sites where the so-called carers can rot in their own ****, like they make their residents do. I'd bet my last bottom $ that you'll be seeing about it the national press... My body is broken but they didn't break my mind, and it's pay-back time, Roddy Style. Their worst possible nightmare is about to unfold. Trust me. 
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