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PIP stopped now Mandatory Reconsideration.

TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
Hi
so i been on PIP a while then out of the blue with no warning in early October i got a phone call by a healthcare professional where they wanted to ask a few questions and would take only a few mins. 
I panicked & totally messed up my answers as i hate phone calls at the best of times. Maybe they did it out of blue to try catch me out i dunno. 
I got a letter in December saying i don't qualify anymore, also saying that i 'handled the call well' which i know i didn't & that they would let me know if i had to pay any monies back which has panicked me a lot. 
A family member called PIP with me alongside & started the Mandatory Reconsideration, the lady asked a few questions on the points i lost in my scoring so now i await. 
My question is should i have to pay money back when i know i'm in the right & also the fact that there was no letter or sms letting me know when the call would be, would that help my appeal etc & should i let them know this before they tell me the result of the reconsideration & what can i do in the meantime to help my case?

Many thanks

Tumilty

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    May i ask if you filled out a form at any point before you had the telephone call? usually they write to you or text you, if you gave a mobile number and they must give at least 7 days notice. If you didn't receive a letter do you have any problems with your post?

    As PIP is paid 4 weeks in arrears sometimes when a new decision is made, if the award is lower or there's no award given you can sometimes end up being overpaid. It will depend on when the decision was made. If there is an over payment, it will likely be a small one.

    If the MR isn't successful then it's Tribunal after this. If you are eventually awarded successfully then it will be backdated to the date it stopped.

    You really should be concentrating on where and why you think you should have scored those points. Adding a couple of recent real world examples of what happend the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Also stating who was with you and where it happened.

    Hope this helps. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi Poppy 

    No i don't recall filling in any form to do with anyone getting in touch via telephone to assess me. I would have known if i had. Maybe i could use this in my appeal but i cannot prove i didn't receive. 

    I was assessed in October so i'm guessing if i have to pay back it will be from the assessment date not the date. 

    I know where i should've scored the points & this would have been ok in filling in a form, anxiety issues aren't always easy to put across over a 8min phone call. 

    Once ive sone the mandatory reconsideration & before i get the result, can i send stuff in to support my reconsideration or is that that until i get result & then tribunal appeal?

    Thanks

    Tumilty
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The form you should have received would either be the PIP2 form or a review form and it could have been anytime within the past several months before the phone call took place. You're saying you didn't recieve anything at all?



    Before your award stopped when was it supposed to end?


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi Poppy & thanks

    My no i don't recall filling any form in. Something as important as that i would've remembered & prepared for the call but no definitely not. 

    My award was due to end in September'20  then due to the virus was postponed until Feb'21 but got the out of the blue call October 8th 

    I didn't know people were informed prior until the other day when i read a post here. Maybe i could use it in my defense however as i said i can't prove i didn't get it. 

    Regards 

    Tumilty
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You were due to be reviewed anyway. Just because you were given an extension on your award, reviews do still take place. Although a form should have been received, as your award was orginally due to end in September 2020 than you should have received the form around Februaury/March 2020.

    Although reviews were suspended for 3 months during the first lockdown, those that did receive their forms would have been given 3 months to return them.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    yes i knew i would be reviewed. I expected February as they told me. I didn't receive a form so i'm wondering what to do now and if i can use in tribunal if need be. I guess nothing can be done till the reconsideration results are in . 
    Thanks 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If it does get to Tribunal you need to concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. It will be the strength of your evidence that will help you here. Rather than concentrating on not receiving any form because that's not going to get you a PIP award.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    When my review was comeing up I didn't have a form to fill in o got a letter 6months before  it was due and then got another letter October 2020 saying my review had been done and that my pip was ongoing I phoned them becsuse I wanted to check it was right and it was but it is worrying 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Yes your right Poppy many thanks, all the questions the lady asked in the reconsideration call didn't get thorough answers as was overwhelming.
    Lisa it is worrying, having no mail over xmas each day waiting for postman is a days reprieve. 
    Just gotta wait i guess, nowt can do, impossible to see gp,

    thanks 

    Tumilty 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty hope it all gets sorted for  you soon 
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 873 Pioneering
    Hi there sorry to hear this when was your award suppose to end ? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Tumilty said:
    Hi Poppy & thanks

    My no i don't recall filling any form in. Something as important as that i would've remembered & prepared for the call but no definitely not. 

    My award was due to end in September'20  then due to the virus was postponed until Feb'21 but got the out of the blue call October 8th 



    @cupcake88 previously mentioned in the quote above :)
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Many thanks to you all, i dread the post man coming to be honest & what with the current situation it doesn't make things any better. 
    They say they take into consideration not being to do 1 to 1 assessments yet easily make assumptions over a 5- 10 min call. 
    It's coming up to 5 weeks which was the waiting timer i was told so no point sending in other stuff now i.e dr letter etc.
    I will keep in touch when i know more. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • BrettWBrettW Member Posts: 607 Pioneering
    edited January 11
    Try not to let it stress you out too much @Tumilty even though I know thats easier said than done. I've got my telephone assessment a week today and I know how much that has been stressing me :smile: Once you get your documentation at least you will know where you stand and will be able to get further advice then moving forward. Try and stay positive, difficult as that is.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi Brett 
    Yes it's true but take it day to day. Pleased you had notice& i hope it all goes well for you. 
  • BrettWBrettW Member Posts: 607 Pioneering
    Tumilty said:
    Hi Brett 
    Yes it's true but take it day to day. Pleased you had notice& i hope it all goes well for you. 
    Thanks @Tumilty and I wish the same for you
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Still not heard from them yet, they said it was 5 weeks but been more than that, wondering whether to contact them to see whats what. I'm wondering if they will write or call. 

    Regards


  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty if your worried about it give them a ring at least it will be peace if mind for you 😌 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Thanks lisathomas 
    Got the mandatory reconsideration notice back and I've been denied again. There seems to be no 'mental health' award  just daily living and mobility. Is this correct or is it part of? They said they called me but my phone was off asking if I had further info to send but I hear from my gp surgery that PIP contact them not the other way around.. There's an 0300 number for help with appeal, has anyone done it online, do I get to challenge the points I have not scored on?

    Regards 

    Tumilty 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Also if I loose appeal do I pay money back, sorry I forgot to ask. 
    I'm guessing they aren't asking people to attend court at the moment. I doubt I could do this just like being OK in phone calls. 

    Regards 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty if you have been turned down on your MR then you can appeal you can get advice from citizens advice to help you do this 

    Its worth appealing you have nothing to loose  why would you have to pay money back ?

    You need to go through why they have turned you down and basically  you need to explain why they are wrong to turn you down on  

    Others will reply  but I think citizen advice would be able to help 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Yes thanks, its to do with a payment just placed a day or so before it was stopped.

    I'll try to go through the points awarded in a letter. 

    Regards 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty I don't realy know if they would ask for the money back

    But you have a good plan to go through the decision it would be good to do it a section at a time but you vould still ask citizens advice if you get stuck with anything  or ask on here 

    Hope it goes well for you 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    The letter read that unfortunately we've paid you too much money and that I'll get a letter letting me know if I need to pay back money.. The person I talked too didn't think that I would.
    My family are helping and going through each qustion is a good way. 
    I'll update. 

    Regards 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty thats good thst you have got family to help I hope you don't have to pay money back as it seems it was their fault 

    Once you have put everything down  whst you want to say you can send it off then 

    Yes please it will be good to know how you get on  I wish you luck and hope all goes well 
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,915 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Tumilty - I'm sorry to read that your Mandatory Reconsideration was unsuccessful. You can appeal this. I know sometimes it doesn't feel that PIP helps people with mental health issues, but it can, & does. The following website is about completing a PIP claim form, but is helpful, as it shows where points may be gained, & may give you a better understanding......we all need a bit of help completing these forms don't we? Please see: https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/pip-mental-health-guide/help-with-your-pip-claim/how-to-fill-in-the-pip-form/
    As Poppy has said to you before, you need to concentrate on where points should have been scored, & why. It's the same with a tribunal. You should try & give a couple of detailed examples for each activity/descriptor that affects you, e.g. what us difficult, why do you find it difficult, do you need help, or prompting from someone else, what happened the last couple of times you attempted/did an activity, &, if relevant, how did it leave you feeling afterwards?
    Also can you do the activity safely, can you do it again as often as you would want, does it take you longer to do, & can you do it to an acceptable standard?
    You can certainly send in more information for your appeal. The DWP don't contact your Drs, or any others that may help you, rather you have to do this. You could also ask a family member to write a supportive letter showing where you have difficulty with the activites/descriptors mentioned above.
    As you say, most tribunals are still being done by phone. Again as Poppy mentioned, there might be a small overpayment due at the moment, but, if your tribunal is successful, you will get a back payment to the date when your award was stopped.
    Hope this helps. :)
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    My gp surgery today told me today that dwp contacted them in December and that it happens regularly, my Dr filled out the form & sent it back. 

    I am appealing and also writing the letter, also one from a family member, to the person who did the assessment detailing where i should score more points as because they tried to contact me and my phone was off which it  is regular for me & they didn't try the landline which i asked as someone else would answer.

    Thanks
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Member Posts: 3,796 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tumilty hope things go well for you 
  • auntiep69auntiep69 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Have you got a copy of your last award and what you scored points on? If nothing has changed and you are still claiming for the same ailments they can’t stop your pip. My husband went for an assessment and it came back he wasn’t entitled but his condition hadn’t changed (actually a bit worse) we did an m.r and went to a tribunal and he won. We didn’t know it had been stopped until my carers allowance stopped. He got his pip back but getting my carers back took months . 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Thanks auntiep69, I will have a look I must have still got it. Things haven't changed in fact gotten worse since the virus started. 
    It all boils down to the call out of the blue when I panicked as i had no idea they were calling. I then did the reconsideration where my then answers conflicted. 

    The person said I could send more evidence in but I can't get a gp note however apparently pip contact the gp. 

    I will be writing a letter explaining each points I lost and how my condition affects each one. All I can do at the moment.

    Can I ask about your appeal, did you have to attend or take part in a video call?

    Regards 

    Gary 
  • auntiep69auntiep69 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    It was a few years back and we went to a place. There’s a dr there a nurse and someone from pip.. I think.. there was 3 people. I was allowed in with my husband
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 1,128 Pioneering
    edited January 29
    Tumilty said:...however apparently pip contact the gp.
    They are not usually proactive in that way. They may but you should assume they know nothing except what you tell them/send them
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Thanks to you both, apparently they sent a form to gp to fill in then to send back. The gp receptionist says it happens regular although not as thorough as a personal letter which I had initially 

    Regards 

    Tumilty 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    I've sent my letter to the decision maker. The appeal looks quite daunting with video calls.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    does anyone know if i appeal and lose do i get sanctioned financially?

    Thanks 

    Tumilty
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 1,128 Pioneering
    Tumilty said:
    does anyone know if i appeal and lose do i get sanctioned financially?

    Thanks 

    Tumilty
    No. The appeal is simply your opportunity to ask the tribunal service to make a decision on your claim in place of DWP.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    I'm wondering if anyone recently has done the appeal?  It's stressing me lots wondering if i'll have to attend or do video call. I recall the original face to face assessment i went with a family member and the lady assessor was really nice. 
    Any advice on the appeal appreciated. 

    Tumilty 
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    I'm currently waiting for my appeal to be listed for a hearing. When I registered the appeal, there was a choice to attend in person, via video, phone or for a decision to be made without being present. I ticked the 3 options to attend in the hope that my son's anxiety will allow him to attend in person if that is what is requested. However, I know from my job that the majority of court hearings are currently being heard via phone or video due to covid and therefore I'm hoping for one of these.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Many thanks,i have the form SSCS1 that makes me very panicky because if they see i can attend in person or vid chat i'd be seen well enough whereas if i didn't attend i'd seem not bothered enough,. Only if a feamily member went with me i could attend & they are not well & elderly. I wrote a letter to the person who assessed my mandatory reconsideration as said i could with medical evidence however i can';t get a gp letter because the virus...All seems overwhelming. 

    ASDIBS i wish you all the success in your appeal & i appreciate your post, many thanks

    Tumilty 
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    @Tumilty. It is so difficult. Aren't you able to call your GP to ask if a letter could be done and emailed. I asked the GP for a letter to assist my son's disability claim for university.  Also, if you're comfortable doing so, you may be able to collect the letter from the GP surgery. 
    Thanks for your well wishes, I'm really hoping that he doesn't have to attend in person as we'll find that difficult due to his anxiety/medical condition. Good luck with however you opt to proceed 🙂
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    Also,.I completed my appeal online it was really easy. You can save and then continue at your pace until you have finished and then submit
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Many thanks ASDIBS, yes i've looked into a letter from my gp but due to the current situation it's difficult also it's been a long while since i've seem the gp i don't like just asking. 
    I think if you state in the form that you don't want to take part in the appeal you don't have to although i worry if this goes against their final decision. Been procrastinating a lot, it all seems daunting. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    @Tumilty. Thank you 🙂. I've read that's it's always better to put that you're willing to attend however I completely understand that there are situations whereby people genuinely cannot and that may happen to my son. It's easy to try put it off and think about other things. I was told yesterday that appeals in my area were taking 12months even before covid so think we've got a long wait. Just do whatever you think is best for you and if you feel strong enough to do it 💪🤞
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,929 Disability Gamechanger
    There are no face to face hearings at present other than in truly exceptional circumstances and most of those have been shut down following C19 outbreaks at venues so you won’t be having a face to face for at least 50% of this year and most likely most of it. Video hearings are up and running in some areas but not all and are hard to organise for many reasons. Overwhelmingly the likelihood is that you’ll be offered a telephone hearing. 

    It is a very bad idea to opt for a paper hearing as the success rate sinks from about 85% to between 5 and 8%.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Hi & thanks mikehughescq
    I can't see the option for a paper hearing only telephone, video & face to face! 

    Did you mean that i should check the box where i should take part in the hearing & choose one of the 3 above options & unless i do & it goes to a paper hearing then it drops to 5-8% success rate? 

    Apologies for my confusion
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    I ticked the box to say that I would take part in the hearing and ticked all 3 options. I'm going to assume that if you don't tick, then it's based purely on what evidence they have in front of them and I've read that this is rarely successful
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,929 Disability Gamechanger
    Tumilty said:
    Hi & thanks mikehughescq
    I can't see the option for a paper hearing only telephone, video & face to face! 

    Did you mean that i should check the box where i should take part in the hearing & choose one of the 3 above options & unless i do & it goes to a paper hearing then it drops to 5-8% success rate? 

    Apologies for my confusion
    Yes, tick that you want to take part.
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    yes i ticked that i want to take part but only by phone..I would prefer face to face but that's not happening at mo i guess
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    well its sent, dreading it to be honest, i've opted for call even though i stated i'm not good with the telephone, i just sent the letter i sent to the assessor as that questions each point however i didn't score myself as i don't know what each points value means. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    Good luck. I didn't put what we should get either as I wasn't aware at the time that it helped. 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Many thanks, i'm still awaiting response from the extra evidence i sent in by recorded delivery, it was only me writing so maybe they binned it as i can't get  Drs note.. I will try to contact pip to see if they got my letter, i posted it to the person who assessed my mandatory reconsideration care off/ pip. Still nothing on the appeal letter,  i sent the same letter i sent to the assessor. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    i got my text from HM courts & tribunal service saying they await response from PIP but unfortunately no response from PIP about the letter i sent in. I guess i will have to call them which fills me full of dread. 

    Regards

    Tumilty 
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    Did you send the letter to DWP or sent as evidence for appeal?
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Both, i hand wrote a letter questioning each point awards. I sent the original to the dwp & a photo copy to tribunal service as my evidence. Can't get dr note at moment due to circumstances. 

    Regards

    Tumilty 
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    I doubt you'll receive anything direct from DWP now that you've requested appeal. They may call you if they want more information or some clarification
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    I'll get someone to call to see if they received it as i sent it registered post. I've just received text that they've received it and they waiting to hear from dwp. It all seems overwhelming, it says i'm attending i guess that means via phone. I was kinda expecting it to be a conference call. 

    Thanks for all your help

    Tumilty
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    When you receive a copy of the bundle from the DWP, a copy of your letter and previously sent evidence will be included. I recommend you check it thoroughly to check that everything is there.

     
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    ok i hope the initial form i filled in a few years ago after my face to face assessment is there too. 

    I haven't heard from the assessor as i say after i sent in my letter. I thought i may get a letter about whether that was at least looked at. i shall try get in touch on Monday. 

    Thanks 

    Tumilty
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 873 Pioneering
    Hi there I’m so sorry to hear you have to now go to tribunal I know it must be very daunting but plenty of people have won there tribunals I really wish you all the best with it all did you ever get a letter saying you owed them any thing I hold not as that’s just added extra stress 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 1,128 Pioneering
    DWP may contact you during the appeal with a revised award.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    @Tumilty. The initial form should be there too. I'm pretty sure that my bundle contains everything. It's got the initial form, a copy of the first assessment (this appeal is following a review) all old and new evidence. Check yours thoroughly and make sure that everything is there. I did send stuff to the court that had already been submitted to DWP as I wanted to make sure nothing was missed. I've also sent photos of how my son's condition affects him. I keep finding evidence and emailing it to the court. I'm finding it particularly stressful but not giving up. Good luck. 
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    cupcake88 said:
    Hi there I’m so sorry to hear you have to now go to tribunal I know it must be very daunting but plenty of people have won there tribunals I really wish you all the best with it all did you ever get a letter saying you owed them any thing I hold not as that’s just added extra stress 
    i did that i may do but that was ages ago & nothing since.. 

    Calcotti.. yes i hear this happens. They don't tell you they received it or let you know they just revise it.I sure hope so. 
    Asdibs many thanks i'll report what they say when i call. I wish i could get up to date Dr's note but the one i had initially still counts today. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    the hm courts n tribunal service are awaiting a reply from dwp. I'm annoyed dwp haven't replied to my evidence, just got to wait, dreading it . 

    Regards 

    Tumilty
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    @Tumilty. I don't think that the DWP will respond now as it's you are appealing. There have been cases whereby DWP contact people beforehand to offer then an award. I think this is usually based on them receiving new evidence and maybe if they feel that you'll be successful at tribunal.  It's a waiting game now ☹️

  • Caz_ScopeCaz_Scope Posts: 549

    Scope community team

    Just wanted to get in touch @Tumilty, to say that I'm sorry to hear about the current situation with your appeal. 

    It's never an easy process when you're waiting to hear back about something like this, I know. Please do keep stopping by the community and talking to everyone on here. Hopefully, that might help to take your mind off things whilst you're waiting for a response!

    Hope you have a restful bank holiday weekend :)
    Online Community Coordinator (she/her)

    Want to give us feedback? Complete our feedback form now.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,929 Disability Gamechanger
    ASDIBS said:
    @Tumilty. I've also sent photos of how my son's condition affects him. I keep finding evidence and emailing it to the court. I'm finding it particularly stressful but not giving up. Good luck. 
    This is generally a very bad idea. Tribunals have limited time in which to preview cases at home; preview together before the hearing and then the hearing itself is very much time limited. A less is more approach is usually far more successful. Instead if just sending in evidence because you’ve found it it’s far better to ask yourself what value it adds. What point does it make which hasn’t already been made? What gap in the evidence does it full. If it just reinforces stuff then you’re wasting yours and the tribunals  time. 5 reports confirming a diagnosis are no more valuable than 1. If the diagnosis isn’t even in dispute then all 5 are a waste of time. 

    ASDIBS said:
    @Tumilty. I don't think that the DWP will respond now as it's you are appealing. There have been cases whereby DWP contact people beforehand to offer then an award. I think this is usually based on them receiving new evidence and maybe if they feel that you'll be successful at tribunal.  It's a waiting game now ☹️

    I’m afraid this is wrong. There is huge value in sending evidence to DWP as well as HMCTS and HMCTS encourage that if asked. It enables DWP to review the case and possibly revise their submission to show that they’ve taken account of the evidence even if they’ve not revised it ahead of appeal. You are your own worst enemy if you dint send evidence to both. 

    There are also multiple circumstances in which DWP will contact an appellant ire hearing and few of them have anything to do with new evidence. They have to review the case upon receipt of the appeal and that can result in a revision. They have to review immediately prior to hearing and that can result in an offer. Neither are dependent on new evidence.  
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    I was under the impression that hmcts sent any additional evidence to DWP?
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    I'll be honest. I just keep thinking that the hearing won't be listed yet and therefore try to get as much sent as possible. In relation to evidence, the HMCTS asked if I wanted to respond to the assessor's report which I did, I sent a statement from a support mentor and I sent a statement from myself about the level of support my son requires. I've also sent a letter detailing what points I think should have be awarded based on evidence already supplied. The photos etc were sent as part of my appeal application and the others items were sent in response to the receipt of the DWP's response.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,929 Disability Gamechanger
    ASDIBS said:
    I was under the impression that hmcts sent any additional evidence to DWP?
    They don’t send the evidence itself. They update the appeal papers with a numbered version of the evidence and then send that to all parties. However, DWP often won’t receive that in a timely manner and so often simply don’t have time to send out a further response. Under pressure and under staffed DWP appeal teams who have already reviewed the case on receipt of an appeal have a ready made reason to simply file it away until closer to the hearing and that’s largely exactly what they do.  Far better to send the evidence direct yourself as it then must be dealt with as a new thing. 

    ASDIBS said:
    I'll be honest. I just keep thinking that the hearing won't be listed yet and therefore try to get as much sent as possible. In relation to evidence, the HMCTS asked if I wanted to respond to the assessor's report which I did, I sent a statement from a support mentor and I sent a statement from myself about the level of support my son requires. I've also sent a letter detailing what points I think should have be awarded based on evidence already supplied. The photos etc were sent as part of my appeal application and the others items were sent in response to the receipt of the DWP's response.
    Responding to the HCP report is generally a mistake. You need to focus on the strengths and weaknesses of your evidence rather than theirs. At the hearing the focus will be on verbal and anecdotal evidence and hardly any time will be spent on the HCP report. It’s also a dumb idea to lay into a report by a medical professional when one of the tribunal is exactly that. 

    Finally, identifying the appropriate points is exactly what you should be doing but don’t mistake assertions about that with evidence. Evidence is when you illustrate those assertions with real world examples of incidents which have occurred when he attempts to perform a specific points scoring activity.






  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    Thanks Mike. It's difficult to give real life examples of some things. My son is autistic. He struggles with all activities but because he has had support in place it's difficult to give examples of what happens when support is not there. There were occasions when he would have a meltdown at school when his support was removed and since then we've made sure it's there for him (even now at uni). Therefore, I have to rely on information documented in his EHCP about the level of support he needs, his strengths, his weaknesses etc. I'll be honest, I'm struggling. Do you recommend that i send everything I've already emailed to HMCTS to DWP also? 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,929 Disability Gamechanger
    1 - Think about what he was like before the support was there or when it was removed. That’s your anecdotal evidence.
    2 - EHCPs are very template based. It’s important to not rely on them too much as they often differ from the reality in some big ways. 
    3 - Think more about reliability. Can he do those activities to a reasonable standard, in a reasonable time, safely or repeatedly. If not then explain why and give examples of what happens.
    4 - no, anything you’ve sent in so far will be with both. Anything you send in going forward ought to go to DWP at the same time but the key evidence here will be the verbal/anecdotal stuff.
  • ASDIBSASDIBS Member Posts: 68 Courageous
    Thank you. I really appreciate your help and advice
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Thanks Mikehughescq, ASDIBS & Caz_Scope for your words & advice. I sent the same info to both HMRC & DWP so they both have my interpretation of how my situation affects me day to day. Shame i couldn't get Dr's note but i guess now it's a waiting game. 

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    i just wondered if my HMRC appeal fails do i have to pay monies back like if lose in court pleading guilty or not gulity?. I think i asked before.

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,915 Disability Gamechanger
    Please don't worry, a tribunal just tries to find out if, on the balance of probabilities, PIP should be awarded. It bears no similarity to a criminal court. So, you're not going to court, rather a benefit's tribunal, where there will be a judge, a Dr. & someone with some disability understanding.
    The best advice I could give you is to look back over Mike's replies. Do you have a date yet for the tribunal?
  • TumiltyTumilty Member Posts: 36 Connected
    Many thanks Chiarieds for your words & also i will look over Mike's posts, i've probably asked the same questions a few times knowing me.
    There is no date yet but dwp have responded  but arranging the date could up to a few months. 
    It seems strange how it can be done over the phone if there's 3 parties involved i imagined it would be a conference call type situation!

    Regards

    Tumilty
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,915 Disability Gamechanger
    You're very welcome @Tumilty :)
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