Green Paper Related Discussions

Morning Juls,

I know how wiped out you would have been. How on earth would we be expected to work with ME . It’s like expecting a car to drive without any petrol .
I think the wording in the tweak is so vague that taken in face value says simply to me if you’re in standard and get a 4 you’re ok (13%) and if you’re on enhanced but don’t get a 4 13%, like me) whereas you’d lose pip now you wouldn’t. So anyone on standard without a 4 loses , 87% of people I think . That’s just the way I read it but what they actually mean who knows. Now maths is not my strongest point but I can work out that it’s a majority of standard to lose , how can MPs think this is 10% . Even at 10% that’s people that are disabled as there’s less than 1% fraud in pip. Then of course there’s the tweak of TP to give time to apply for imaginary benefits . So we’d have no choice but to stay with uc basic as job seekers. Considering we spend most of our time resting how would we look for work ? MPs shouldn’t be allowed to vote until they know the true facts but instead they’re be pressured to vote without full information. This alone would surely not hold up in court ?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2061580/keir-starmers-mask-off-premiership

As we struggle to even function with ME it's impossible to look for work, never mind actually do any! It's like expecting to drive a car with no petrol AND a flat battery,cif you ask me.

I think that 12 point tweak is unlikely to happen and like so many other things the Labour ministers say, there isn't enough detail to it for MPs to be able to make a proper judgement.

The leadership will keep saying that only 10% of people on PIP DL will lose out because it suits their narrative. The actual number, as you've said is 87%.They don't want to admit to that as they know they shouldn't be doing anything like that in the first place.

I think that it has made MPs feel even more fed up with the leadership than they would have been if Kendall and Co had been honest about the number of disabled people who are going to have their lives ruined with these policies.

I believe that it's made MPs more determined to resist the leadership as they know that they are constantly trying to deceive them on what they are going to do to people on PIP, as you have said, a benefit that has a negligible amount of fraud.

As we know, TP is a measily amount of money, as we've found out with the transfer to UC, which with the removal of PIP and all the other benefits etc. that it entitles us to, it will be nowhere enough for us to live on and will run out eventually.

Even if it was enough, there are no other disability benefits we can claim!

Basic UC is at destitution levels and with no support for our day to day functioning. With our health conditions, even with support it still means that we are unable to look for work so we are not going to be able to cope at all!! We cannot be compared to fit and healthy job seekers as ministers would like to imagine!

I won't go into the terrifying situation it will put us into with the DWP and the destroying of our lives. We all know how that would work out. 😞

All of it will hold up in court, they have been going against every equality and human rights law.

However, the ministers have tried to mislead, withhold information and obstruct MPs, ourselves and the general public throughout, hoping they can get the proposals through, knowing that however unlawful it is, there would be a long, hard struggle to fight it and they hope that everyone would just give up (including us) and let them get on with doing whatever they wanted to do to us 😡

That is why the main call from MPs is to make sure that all the information about the impact of the cuts is available for them to study before they come to a decision. That will be in October, not June!

Ex Labour Reform supporters are not going to vote Labour again, Labour's biggest threat comes from the Left and the Lib Dems.

The PM should push for massive investment in access to work and work well increasing opportunities but ultimately you can't force employers to hire disabled people and many employers don't want to hire disabled people.

Thing is PIP helps disabled people in work and Labour wants to take that away from them whilst claiming PIP is an unemployment benefit. These lies should come with legal consequences for politicians.

Sorry, my pc had a double post accident. Nothing to see here :)

How have the MPs not looked at figures and worked it out themselves though? I read labour have said not as many will be affected due to conditions getting worse hence higher scores. So we are now to rely on becoming more sick and disabled to gain extra points and of course hope we get a truthful assessor on the day .

Hi Catherine,

There’s a graph from dwp foi regarding the pip 4 points and who gets 4 points currently. It shows that 87% on standard don’t get 4 points plus 13% on enhanced. I think we need to email this breakdown to MPs so they realise it’s not 10% who will lose out. They need the real figures if the vote does go ahead . I can’t remember where I saw that breakdown but I’ll see if can find it tmrw. My fatigue very bad today but I’ll try tmrw and start emailing it to them. Hope you’re well 😀

Hi juls,

I just saw on another site a quote from a newspaper possibly the times regarding the 4 point rule. It said one tweak they’re looking at is anyone who gets a high enough score but not a 4 could still get pip . It said that would mean about 200,00 still eligible. The numbers on enhanced that don’t get the 4 points is 209,00. So I think they started off with the intention of scrapping standard rate but leaving 13% who get 4 points alone . Now suddenly there’s talk of “helping” everyone on enhanced keep pip whether or not they get a 4 points . Seems like an extra step towards scrapping standard rate to me . Though my MEs bad right now so I may not be making any sense 😂. If up to it tmrw I’ll look for that report from foi regarding the pip points and breakdown of who gets the 4 . I’ll send it to some MPs so they know it’s 87% set to lose out , not 10% as they’re being told .

I think there’s a foi regarding the 4 points and it broke down who gets a 4 point . From what I read it said 13% of those on enhanced don’t get 4 point and 83% on standard don’t . I just read that if implemented the tweak to enable those on an overall high score to claim pip without 4 points would amount to 200,00 still awarded pip . The amount on enhanced without a 4 point is 209,00