Green Paper Related Discussions

I never have been able to 😉😂

Do you have a source and link?

Just watched a video on YouTube disability talk with Steve. Something corbyn has said.

I think when Kendall was talking about the 'severe criteria' for UC, the 'non negotiable' comment was just to show how much Labour truly want to protect the most vulnerable disabled people. Not of course about cutting costs to the benefits system, but showing how much they wish to offer support! But they do want this 'severe conditions' to be added to the Social Security legislation, so I think it will definitely happen if their bill goes through.

That's the interesting, or otherwise bit, about in the future scrapping the WCA, so if receiving UC then you may be considered as in the 'severe conditions' category, but they want a single assessment, the PIP assessment with it's proposed new 4 point rule, to then become the gateway to receive either UC or PIP. Something has to give, as PIP is a different animal to UC. If the functional problems you have with PIP have to be for the majority of the time, then you can't have 'severe conditions' in UC having to be for all of the time.

Similarly if PIP is about 'how your disability affects you,' &, completely fairly, then those without a diagnosis can claim, then, as @Zipz says, why would you need a NHS diagnosis for some of those claiming UC? If Labour don't begin to think clearly, then they're going to run into enormous problems, & they should be thinking about this now.

This is where I become disconcerted, as the DWP has taken over who now provides assessments, i.e. the Health Assessment Advisory Service (HAAS), &, according to Timms, the DWP is also now responsible for providing the 'Core Training and Guidance Material' about different conditions, including those which are fluctuating, which are used by HAAS. So, a monopoly by the DWP in all aspects.

Any such 'guidance' they're are providing can only say how a person suffering from x disorder is likely affected, but, as we know, everyone may have similarities, but be affected differently. I'd be tempted to ask at my PIP review if they have their handbook about Chiari 1 Malformation handy? I didn't even mention this at my PIP assessment as not many UK Drs even understand it. What about other claimants with comparitively rare disorders?

I wouldn't worry about painkillers, or any other medications, overmuch @secretsquirrel1 With PIP it seems they try to use this to ascertain, yes, you really are as affected as you claim to be as you need to take these. Tho some of us can't take some meds because of their side-effects, or they simply don't work. There's an argument about this in case law I believe that use of meds, or not, doesn't mean anything in particular when determining PIP eligibility. Just found it again.

Here's what was said by the Upper Tribunal judge in CPIP/381/2019:

'Pain is notoriously difficult to measure. There is no objective clinical pain test. But
that probably doesn’t really matter in the context of assessing entitlement to PIP
given the way the PIP Regulations approach things. The scheme of the PIP
Regulations approaches disability in a practical and claimant-centred way. It isn’t
concerned with diagnoses but rather with the impact that a claimant’s health
condition has on the individual claimant’s ability to do things. The claimant’s
subjective account of their experience of pain and discomfort is one factor to be
taken into account. The tribunal is obliged to consider such evidence as there is
(exercising its inquisitorial function to seek further evidence if appropriate), to
evaluate that evidence in the light of all the other evidence, and to make findings of
fact accordingly. Having done so it must explain its decision with adequate clarity.'

I agree that not much of this makes sense @secretsquirrel1 - however,

With PIP it's the majority of the time, so more than 50% of the time. With LCWRA, as far as the mobilty descriptor goes it's:

Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

With severe conditions, the descriptor is said to be needed to be constant, not your symptoms. As far as the LCWRA descriptors go about 'physical' problems, they're to do with actions.

There are similarities with PIP in that 'discomfort,' 'exhaustion,' & being able to do the activity 'repeatedly' are mentioned with the mobility part of LCWRA.

I appreciate your concerns with PIP; like many, if not most, I don't have any 4 points either, just one 3. However, I don't want any of us to get too far ahead of ourselves just yet. First these proposals need to be voted upon, & hope they don't happen! Please try not to worry.

But if the descriptor is for mobility for the lcwra surely the distance you walk is the symptom not your condition ?

Daily Express - 20 June 2025. Posting for information.

Your payment rate for PIP depends on how your condition affects you

By Nicholas Dawson, Finance Reporter based in London, covering personal finance with a focus on the state pension and retirement planning.Labour ministers have explained the rules around PIP eligibility after concerns claimants could lose out on entitlement due to a specific rule.

PIP (Personal Independence Payment) provides payments to help cover the extra costs that a claimant incurs due to a long-term health condition or disability.

The benefit includes a daily living part and a mobility part, with a lower and upper rate depending on your level of need.

Conservative MP Charlie Dewhirst asked the Government if it had looked at the impact on claimants of losing out on entitlement to the mobility element, due to a particular 20-metre walking rule used when assessing how much a person should get.

He wanted to know if ministers had considered both the "mental health and financial impact of losing entitlement". The mobility element currently pays £29.20 or £77.05 a week.

This means if you were on the higher rate and became no longer eligible for any the mobility element, your income would drop by just over £4,000 a year.

The 20-metre rule in question refers to the 'moving around' activity, which is one of two activities you are scored on to give you a total number of points to work out your entitlement.

You need a total of at least 8 points to get the lower rate and a total of at least 12 points to get the higher rate.

To get any points for the activity, you need to at least be limited in your movement such that you can stand and then move more than 50 metres but not more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. In this case, you would get 4 points.

The 20-metre rule comes in with the next category - if you are less mobile, and you can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres, you would get 8 points, enough on its own to qualify you for the lower rate.

But if you can stand and then move within the same limits, but only using an aid or appliance, you would get 10 points. If your situation is even more restricted, and you can stand and move more than one metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided, you would get 12 points, entitling you to the upper rate.

You would also get 12 points if you cannot stand at all or move more than one metre, whether aided or unaided.

DWP minister Sir Stephen Timms responded to the question. He summarised the walking distance rule in this way: "For those with physical restrictions, the enhanced rate of the PIP mobility component is for those "unable" or "virtually unable" to walk.

"The 20 metre distance distinguishes between those whose mobility is significantly more limited than others and who face the greater barriers on a day-to-day basis, (those who have the highest need)."

Further explaining the rules, he said that distance is not the only factor when assessing a person for the 'moving around' activity, as there is also a 'reliability' criteria.

The minister said: "This means individuals who can walk more than 20 metres can still receive the enhanced rate of the mobility component if they cannot do so safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly or in a reasonable time.

"Whilst claimants can only reach an enhanced mobility award in activity 12 if they cannot reliably walk more than 20 metres, they may still qualify for a standard award should they satisfy another descriptor scoring a minimum of 8 points.

"Claimants can also reach a standard or enhanced mobility award by scoring 8, or 12 points respectively across activities 11 and 12 combined."

If you were on the enhanced mobility rate of £77.05 a week, or £4,006.60 a year, and you were reassessed and dropped to the lower rate of £29.20 a week, or £1,518.40 a year, you would lose out on £2,488.20 a year.

Addressing the question directly, he said the DWP had not looked at the mental health impact of losing out on PIP due to the 20-metre distance rule.

disability talk with Steve on YouTube thinks it’s gonna be a money bill

You're right , or course, but I wonder if it might end badly for the Labour front team if the Bill were to crash and burn. Reeves and Kendall would lose face totally.

Morning chiarieds,

Hope you’re well . Thank you so much for you advice it’s really appreciated. I’ve always found the mobility component confusing as with my conditions you get PEM so if you were able to do more on a particular day you suffer for it afterwards. And though it says you should be able to do the journey repeatedly I don’t know that assessors really take that into account. Last time the question was changed to how many minutes I walk , I’d never thought to count in minutes. I also get points for planning a journey but I haven’t seen that in the lcwra descriptor so not sure if that counts . A lot of the time I either fight through pain and fatigue if I can or don’t go out at all . So I may not go out for a few weeks as I physically can’t . But my assessor didn’t accept that and kept insisting on if I do go out etc.

And first thing this morning I received a txt saying my pip form is on its way . What a way to start the day 😂