Means Testing PIP - Whats everyone thoughts?
Comments
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Thank you.
I don't use X
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If they means test PIP, I think they should increase the benefit cap before means testing it.
Maybe they should be basing it on people who have other income outside of benefits, my next door neighbour is retired on private pension with paid off house, her husband still works and they have 3 cars, they are forever going on holiday and they run christmas lights 24/7 over the christmas period, they look on PIP as a bonus to fund towards their holidays.
I don't mean to judge, but surely people who are already well off and can afford their own medical expenses and not limited to claiming benefits, perhaps don't need PIP as urgently?
I also think this stupid thing of people who are saving for a rainy day should not impact benefits, by all means over a certain limit, but if you are saving up for an advance on a motability car or implants or something you get penalised by them reducing your benefit?4 -
The official line is PIP is not being means tested. Yet behind closed doors it is "supposedly" being discussed. The whole idea of the disability payment was to pay for extras that disabled people require. I personally cannot see somebody that is well off going through the PIP process to receive it. I am sure they would not need the hassle. So we are looking at people that worked hard and paid their dues but unfortunately cannot anymore due to disability, but they have some savings... It's disgusting the mere thought of mean testing these disabled people!
It is getting to a point in this country it does not pay to have a job...
That said, this is actually an issue and it has been calculated out by experts. If you are on minimum wage, you would be better off on the sick on benefits and claiming housing benefit etc. I don't know all the benefits that can be claimed, but this has been calculated out by an official organisation advising the government. That is where the government should be looking, not taking money off the disabled.
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Means testing PIP means more disabled people will die because they lack the money to survive. supporting means testing PIP means supporting eugenics and democide, especially given what Starver's government have already done, and tried to do.
Also why shouldn't disabled people be able to live abroad and claim PIP if they're eligible? Only a tiny minority cliamants are eligible anyway (Brexit largely put an end to that).
Doubly so for savings. Fact of the matter is the state pension and default wages are no enough, so if a disabled people can claim PIP and use it to help save/invest money, they shouldn't.
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Also worth adding UC would be a disaster for temp/supported housing, hence why they still use the legacy model.
Not to mention the rent for temp/supported rips claimants off and actively discourages them from working.
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This was my idea of thought too, hence the reason for the thread. I'm just not very good at communication or wording of things correctly. You put it far better than me.
Just to add also I'm not saying I agree with means testing it, just couldn't understand why we couldn't just means test it to stop people who don't really need it, claiming it. If the government was to means test I would hope it would be a fair cap so people don't suffer. I am merely aiming this at the few who can live without it.
But with everyone in the end I hope they don't means test it, but just wanted everyones opinions with it if they did means test it.
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Have you mentioned this before in another thread? I don't agree, regardless of their status, now they are disabled they are entitled to the disability payments for the extra things that are required like everyone else on PIP. That is why the payment came about originally and why it is not means tested. You can work and claim PIP. Just because they have worked hard, have a private Pension and own their house, why should they miss out on the disability payment which they are entitled too? Have they grown up children at home that own the cars and pay towards all the holidays for their parents? Do they have stress where the Christmas lights give them some solace at Christmas? Have they got a medical/health condition where warm weather and the sun alleviates it, hence the holidays? You can spend your PIP money on whatever you want, so they choose the holidays, which could be rest respite too. They should get their PIP money like anyone else on the benefit.
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It's a yes for me and if we can vote on it i will vote for means testing it
{comment removed by moderator - uncivil}
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I'd love to know what people think those of us on benefits receive each month. There are four of us in this house and after rent is paid we have just £1000 to live on. That's bills, including Council Tax, fuel, food, clothing etc. We only survive because I get PIP and use that to buy our food.
How many full time jobs pay less than £1000 per month? It really does pay to work!0 -
Thanks for your post. I don't know a lot about other benefits, but I know something about PIP. Point taken on what you have a stated and what you have to manage on. And yes it does pay to work with a high paying job, but I was pointing out because you worked and have savings you could possibly lose your PIP due to means testing, when it was always a benefit for all with a disability.
In addition if you are referring to the last paragragh, I was quoting from an article I found when searching for the latest on mean testing PIP. This Organisation is advising the government on what they should be doing to make savings I gather.
The Organisation is the Centre for Social Justice. I have found the article again, so I can post what they are advising the government on. I will have to edit this post!
However, the Centre for Social Justice argues that the rising number of PIP claims are contributing to a significant gap between welfare and work that needs immediate attention.
The report suggests that a person who is economically inactive and on Universal Credit, including the average housing element to cover their rent, and also receiving PIP, would have a taxpayer-funded Government income of around £25,000 - this increases to £27,500 for those awarded the highest rate of PIP.
However, this amount drops to £22,550 once the welfare bill's cut to the Universal Credit health element for new claimants is considered.
In contrast, a full-time worker earning the National Living Wage (NLW) is projected to make £22,500 after paying income tax and National Insurance, creating a £2,500 disparity between work and welfare for existing claimants.
The Centre for Social Justice argues that the gap widens even further when additional benefits are factored in.
As I was pointing out in that previous post, you can be better off on the sick! It has been quoted that this is an issue in this country.
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@Trevor_PIP My last sentence was in reply to this comment of yours
"It is getting to a point in this country it does not pay to have a job..." It suggests people get more money from benefits than working, and the more people who say it, the more people believe it sadly.
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Point taken. I used the quote in a different context but I see your point. I wasn't meaning you get more money from benefits than working. You are definitely better off working!
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Well this is one I am not getting involved in 🤐 My circumstances are so complicated it would be an absolute nightmare to introduce means testing ! Think we all have enough on our plates with all the cr.. we are going be facing very soon from DWP, we need to be focusing on getting through that first.
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I am in similar in that I am so worried what will happen yo those of us who may be affected in means testing is introduced, as if we suddenly lose entitlement and are then regarded as not being disabled and
left destitute.
So unfair.
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I don't want to comment any more on the means testing subject as I have already outlined why in my opinion there is a distinction and I have no more to say on that.
But I wanted to just point out that this breakdown is disingenuous. It is assuming a person on PIP also claims welfare benefits, rather than looking at people who only claim PIP. The claims of PIP are not disincentivising work. Discrimination and barriers to recruitment, plus a complete lack of available and accessible jobs, are. Fear of the DWP and of being sanctioned if you try to change your benefit situation, that is, too. PIP is not.
I am sure there are a lot of people not working who claim PIP, but PIP remains a disability benefit, not an out of work benefit. Adding up the amount received alongside other benefits doesn't make an argument about PIP keeping people out of work and I'd prefer not to see that line blurred.
Also, I work 21 hours a week and claim PIP. I'm nowhere near £27,500 in a year even with both those things. In reality, the bulk of the benefit included in that calculation is probably not PIP - and how much a person ACTUALLY gets is so dependent on different criteria that I don't think it's helpful quoting figures like that even for those people who are supported by PIP and welfare benefits. We don't know what their situation is or their expenses, and PIP should not ever be dragged into the discussion on income. It's a disability benefit, and as I said before, disability is not means tested.2 -
So Why start a thread?? If you not looking for a debate??
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